Player Watch #3 Christian Salem

schmuttt

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He has direct access to Wayne Carey through Simon Goodwin and he's never reached out to him, bloody ridicolous to me.
I think it’s more down to our forward coaches than relying on an external source. The problem is he hasn’t been good at this since 2015 so if we can see the problem why isn’t it fixed? Jesse regularly leads way too early or expects his teammate to hit a 50m pass to him over the back. I honestly think Weid/TMac is superior to Hogan/TMac because Weid runs and jumps at the ball at every opportunity.
 

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Topkent

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I think it’s more down to our forward coaches than relying on an external source. The problem is he hasn’t been good at this since 2015 so if we can see the problem why isn’t it fixed? Jesse regularly leads way too early or expects his teammate to hit a 50m pass to him over the back. I honestly think Weid/TMac is superior to Hogan/TMac because Weid runs and jumps at the ball at every opportunity.
They are both better for us and our structure because they lead at the ball carrier as you said and when they do they jump at the ball hit it at its highest point so the ball comes to the front of the pack. We scored a few times from that on the weekend.

Hogan is highly unpredictable, he brings his man to tmacs contests and then tries to crumb but he's a 100kg bloke.

When it's simplified for him and he works the wings he goes ok because you have to give a predictable option, forward he gets to funky trying to create when he just needs to do the basics better.
 

Tulip

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Its really, really simple guys. I understand why Weideman's conventional forward craft is appealing, but there's literally no way in hell that McDonald/Weideman is a better forward combination in 2018 than Hogan/McDonald. Goals, marks, disposals - every metric shows the latter two to be vastly superior.
 

schmuttt

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Its really, really simple guys. I understand why Weideman's conventional forward craft is appealing, but there's literally no way in hell that McDonald/Weideman is a better forward combination in 2018 than Hogan/McDonald. Goals, marks, disposals - every metric shows the latter two to be vastly superior.
I used to think this but the forwardline seriously works better without him. For those interested, since 2015 we're 11-6 without Jesse in the side (2015 1-1, 2016 1-0, 2017 7-5, 2018 2-0). We also scored roughly 2 goals more without him in the side last year.
 

Fork n Hell

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yeah i dont think you can just compare the two big fwd combinations just as stats, as they set up differently. i'm fairly sure Melkshams output would be up without Hogan in the side too, as he plays a deeper fwd role in his absence.
 

Topkent

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Its really, really simple guys. I understand why Weideman's conventional forward craft is appealing, but there's literally no way in hell that McDonald/Weideman is a better forward combination in 2018 than Hogan/McDonald. Goals, marks, disposals - every metric shows the latter two to be vastly superior.
You're better than using that as your argument.
 

Topkent

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I know topkent really want to see Salem move up the ground but until we either trade in or draft another legitimate general defender it’s likely we need him down back.

Honestly not sure if we will ever see Salem play predominantly midfield. It makes so much sense but I don’t have confidence that Fritsch, McKenna Johnstone and Wagner can become AFL level defenders.
Salem isn't a good defender though, he's a bloke can kick the footy well and is hard but he's not the bloke i want deep in D50.
 
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I know topkent really want to see Salem move up the ground but until we either trade in or draft another legitimate general defender it’s likely we need him down back.

Honestly not sure if we will ever see Salem play predominantly midfield. It makes so much sense but I don’t have confidence that Fritsch, McKenna Johnstone and Wagner can become AFL level defenders.
Fritsch is already an AFL level defender. It’s whether he becomes elite. Salem as an outside man really depends on Fritsch or Hunt developing into week in week out permanent backline locks.
 

Fork n Hell

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I know topkent really want to see Salem move up the ground but until we either trade in or draft another legitimate general defender it’s likely we need him down back.

Honestly not sure if we will ever see Salem play predominantly midfield. It makes so much sense but I don’t have confidence that Fritsch, McKenna Johnstone and Wagner can become AFL level defenders.
yeah I agree. I don't have a problem with Salem in defence for now. i reckon he's been good in that role this year and i'm not sure who'd they'd replace him with either. he's the one we want with ball in hand when we are under the pump down back.
and i'm pretty sure they're only playing Fritsch back just to fill a hole. I think they know he's not a long term option as a defender.
McKenna has finally been showing a bit in the vfl but who knows with him or how long his body will last.
I actually think Johnstone will make a good small defender when he gets his chance. tough and a good ball user. Jetta mkII hopefully.
Wagner I don't really rate at all, and he seems to have slipped out of favour with the coaches as well, with others being chosen ahead of him, after being in the team early in the season.
Hunt and Smith need to improve a fair bit, but they do have upside imo.
maybe we pick up someone like a Jay Lockhart in the draft out of the vfl and hope he can fill a spot at halfback?
we really need some of these guys to put their hand up and consistently push for a spot in defence next year if we want to play Salem up the ground more.
 

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dee_mac

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Fritsch is already an AFL level defender. It’s whether he becomes elite. Salem as an outside man really depends on Fritsch or Hunt developing into week in week out permanent backline locks.
I don't think he's actually defended an opponent. Has been playing loose back and intercepting/ mopping up. He's been serviceable in that role but not a standout. Much prefer him up on the wing linking forward
 
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yeah I agree. I don't have a problem with Salem in defence for now. i reckon he's been good in that role this year and i'm not sure who'd they'd replace him with either. he's the one we want with ball in hand when we are under the pump down back.
and i'm pretty sure they're only playing Fritsch back just to fill a hole. I think they know he's not a long term option as a defender.
McKenna has finally been showing a bit in the vfl but who knows with him or how long his body will last.
I actually think Johnstone will make a good small defender when he gets his chance. tough and a good ball user. Jetta mkII hopefully.
Wagner I don't really rate at all, and he seems to have slipped out of favour with the coaches as well, with others being chosen ahead of him, after being in the team early in the season.
Hunt and Smith need to improve a fair bit, but they do have upside imo.
maybe we pick up someone like a Jay Lockhart in the draft out of the vfl and hope he can fill a spot at halfback?
we really need some of these guys to put their hand up and consistently push for a spot in defence next year if we want to play Salem up the ground more.
I've been one of his biggest critics but it could be worth trying JKH as the Lewis/Salem replacement. His last few games have had good hardness, pressure and disposal efficiency - all big ticks to be a small defender. Also went back with the flight in a courageous moment down back.

A month ago I figured he would be delisted but if he's going to get another year as depth it would be worth a shot. He won't be a part of our midfield and he isn't a small forward's arsehole at AFL level.
 

schmuttt

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I don’t know about that, I think he has been ok. Maybe I am missing something.
Takes the occasional nice mark but that is about it. With his beautiful kicking you want him on the wing, yes he is slow but still finds space like Brayshaw does and delivers superbly.
 

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Salem isn't a good defender though, he's a bloke can kick the footy well and is hard but he's not the bloke i want deep in D50.
Personally i think you are underrating his defensive ability, i can't remember a time were salem has been exposed badly by the opposition forward line. Maybe opposition clubs haven't tried to take him back to the last line, beside what team plays with a traditional full forward line these days. I like Salem across half back, good kick, good decision maker, and is composed. He was clutch against the eagles in the last quarter.
 

Topkent

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Personally i think you are underrating his defensive ability, i can't remember a time were salem has been exposed badly by the opposition forward line. Maybe opposition clubs haven't tried to take him back to the last line, beside what team plays with a traditional full forward line these days. I like Salem across half back, good kick, good decision maker, and is composed. He was clutch against the eagles in the last quarter.
I'm not saying he is a bad defender, I'm saying that kicking in the back half is less important than in the forward half these days.

Melksham goin forward has been huge for us, Martin getting more kicks in the forward half than back half was a huge difference between 16/17
 

Klyntonius

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I'm not saying he is a bad defender, I'm saying that kicking in the back half is less important than in the forward half these days.

Melksham goin forward has been huge for us, Martin getting more kicks in the forward half than back half was a huge difference between 16/17
Wasn't there a stat that we lead the league in scoring from out of defensive 50 or something like that? Having good ball users like Salem, Hibberd, Jetta and Fritsch would be an enormous reason for that.
 
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Fritsch is already an AFL level defender. It’s whether he becomes elite. Salem as an outside man really depends on Fritsch or Hunt developing into week in week out permanent backline locks.
Not really feeling the Fritsch being the defender. Mark Lecras taught him a lesson the other week.

There's talk Joel Smith could potentially come in this week to free up Fritsch back up into the forward line where I've always felt hes at his most dangerous.
He just adds a whole new different dynamic to our forward line with his ability to float in and out.
 

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Not really feeling the Fritsch being the defender. Mark Lecras taught him a lesson the other week.

There's talk Joel Smith could potentially come in this week to free up Fritsch back up into the forward line where I've always felt hes at his most dangerous.
He just adds a whole new different dynamic to our forward line with his ability to float in and out.
Fritsch has played more as the 7th defender when Gawn is off or struggling to get back. Rather than direct one on one. But lecras only had 11 touches and 1 goal 1 behind, hardly a lesson. Le Cras outmarked a floater infront of Fritsch which lead to the goal that put them infront. He won’t be the last defender out marked by a forward from a floating kick forward. The context of the goal made the one on one loss worse.
 

Topkent

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Wasn't there a stat that we lead the league in scoring from out of defensive 50 or something like that? Having good ball users like Salem, Hibberd, Jetta and Fritsch would be an enormous reason for that.
I'd have that down to the way we move the footy Not the blokes using it. We don't allow sides to press us in often because we turn and go long so quickly they need to stay deep against us.

People overreact to often on here, saying some one isn't good doesn't mean the alternative is bad. Being a good defender at AFL level puts you as better that most and Salem isn't that. He's good at the attacking side of defence but he's not taking marks and coming 3rd man in.

It's like Rory Laird at the crows, AA HBF but would anyone here think he would be able to stop Petracca or Melksham from impacting a game?

Blokes like Vlastuin Rampe Jetta Stewart Stratton etc are good defenders. The rest are midfielders who start behind the ball
 

Klyntonius

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I'd have that down to the way we move the footy Not the blokes using it. We don't allow sides to press us in often because we turn and go long so quickly they need to stay deep against us.

People overreact to often on here, saying some one isn't good doesn't mean the alternative is bad. Being a good defender at AFL level puts you as better that most and Salem isn't that. He's good at the attacking side of defence but he's not taking marks and coming 3rd man in.

It's like Rory Laird at the crows, AA HBF but would anyone here think he would be able to stop Petracca or Melksham from impacting a game?

Blokes like Vlastuin Rampe Jetta Stewart Stratton etc are good defenders. The rest are midfielders who start behind the ball
I think you're underselling the importance of ball use (which I find surprising). A system ain't worth a brass Razoo without the right players to carry it out.

Melksham is required further up field because we lack finishing skill there. But he'd be half as effective if Hunt and Frost were relied on as the primary defensive ball carriers instead of Salem and Hibberd (due to a higher rate of turnover).

Salem isn't an elite defender, he's not a great defender but he is a good defender and his cool head and skillful left boot play an important role in our defensive unit. Maybe when/if Lever gets back Hibberd can fill Salem's role and he can push further forward but until then, I think he's required where he is.
 
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