Player Watch # 3: Darcy Parish - Left out of round 1 team - Kicks 5 in VFL practice match

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It was pretty clearly a joke and nowhere did I say you couldn’t be critical, but I apologise for my shit joke making.
It's not directed at just you. This board has a problem in general mocking concerns people have just because they don't follow the general consensus that this place has on an individual player or the team. I am not writing off Parish yet but I think it's interesting listening to those who see something that we don't see or want to critically analyse a player without sugar coating it.
 

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My criticism of Parish has absolutely nothing to do with his rate of possession and I don't recall reading a lot of criticism of Parish not getting the ball. The criticism has stemmed from his ball use and lack of impact at the contest.

I think the starting point for this sort of discussion needs to have account of a few things I would says are realities or truths so that the respective camps are at least having the same discussion. I'm not trying to be pompous or a dick about it (though being a dick does come naturally).

Virtually no player is going to get extended periods on-ball absent the ability to find the ball, particularly sitting off the first touch mids (which is not something I would "accuse" Parish of/or suggest is not important). Yes, there will be players like Stringer who are monsters thrown onto the ball to bust packs apart, or maybe Garry Rohan or Tippa for a really quick break away, but no-one is looking at Parish as that sort of player so I think we can dismiss the "pinch hitters" as being relevant to the discussion.

We hear a lot about structur, and adherence to structure in the midfield is as rigid as it is at either end of the ground. The 3 on-ballers will be inside the contest at stoppages, with the wingers and flankers "on the outside". They will also take up positions without the ball as links to move the ball back through the middle of the ground. There have already been a number of occasions in JLT when Parish has been the link in the middle who has be used by McGrath (as a mid) or Saad (from half back) counter-attacking from half back. This is part of the reasons Parish's handball numbers are high.

We know that structure gets players the ball because we will re-shuffle our midfield this year so that Shiel ends up with enough time to get 25 possessions while playing as a midfielder.

No doubt that there is a skill in being able to find the ball, and there are some players who do struggle with modern structures who may have better much better in previous eras (ant555 said this a lot about Shaun Edwards, for example), but I think that we can say that it's a skill which is possessed by something close to every AFL player who was recruited playing midfield. I'd say much the same thing about a lot of half backs whose performances are routinely overrated simply because they play in a part of the ground that teams channel ball movement through.

In the context of the ability that would be expected of any player and the way in which structure gets players possession, I would say the accumulation of even 30 possession in the midfield, of itself, may as well mean nothing - it's like the base or 4/10 of a performance. That's not the same as saying that there is anything inherently wrong with getting a lot of the ball but it literally means nothing if what is being done with the ball is hand-balling sideways 5m, often not hitting these targets directly while under physical pressure, and not kicking the ball with any penetration (and otherwise struggling to impose himself on the contest physically not for a lack of trying).

I would say that there would be 30-40 players in second tier comps who would be competent enough footballers to get 20-25 possessions in the AFL given sufficient midfield time. Take Nick O'Brien as an example. In 2015 he averaged 25 possessions a week playing inside and was promptly de-listed as a 4th year player. He then played VFL and continued to amass a prolific amount of the ball playing as an inside mid, often getting a lot more of the ball than our AFL-listed players.

It's not like AFL players go back to VFL and automatically get 50 or 60 touches, it happens every now and then but then it also happens in the AFL too. The VFL players get the ball just as much depending on game time. I thought that Parish's time in the VFL last year was telling because all of the physical issues in AFL translated down to the lower level. In and around the ball he got 30 touches but largely struggled to impact the play an inside midfielder. He was firing out handballs and shuffling kicks to no real effect.

I think that if you're going to just be competent and play a role you need to do what you do extremely well.

I think what those querying Parish's performances are really trying to work out is whether there is better value for the 20-25 possessions Parish will get and whether there are better options to compliment our side to give it much needed physical impact around the ball or need for outside run (which would be a better result for the use of Parish's spot given that he's hardly an AFL standard first touch inside mid at this stage).

At this point in time I don't think that Parish is even close to doing his job competently nor do I think that I have ever really seen anything that makes me think that he is the player to persist with and that he should not spend as long as it takes to develop his game in the 2nds.
Why type so much? Was like trying to read Shantaram. Parish had a disposal efficiency of 90+ and 5 score involvements in jlt2. He's going ok
 

BrunoV

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Why type so much? Was like trying to read Shantaram. Parish had a disposal efficiency of 90+ and 5 score involvements in jlt2. He's going ok


In the hope that if you read it you'd understand that it the context in which no one was satisfied with what their eyes told them about his performances that we can dismiss the stats because the stats are a function of taking up space on the field?

James Kelly could have pulled on the boots and been capable of those score involvements.
 

BrunoV

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If I'm going to cite scoring involvements as something that notworthy (given that the stat can also be receiving a clearance and handballing to to the player next to you who kicks to the forward) I'd have in mind a player like Fantasia running off half back, changing angles, to open up the game ahead of him, or Jack Watts in 2017 firing lazer-guided missiles into forward 50.
 
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In the hope that if you read it you'd understand that it the context in which no one was satisfied with what their eyes told them about his performances that we can dismiss the stats because the stats are a function of taking up space on the field?

James Kelly could have pulled on the boots and been capable of those score involvements.
Yeah because james kelly is a weapon. Parish is coming along, my eyes saw some nice pieces of play. Yeah some stats are worth nothing but score involvements shows he was getting amongst it. One was a clean handball that got Langford a goal.
 

BrunoV

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James Kelly. He started averaging 20+ touches a year in 2008. He was 25.

He will play 200 games of AFL football. Will be one of the great shocks if he doesn't.

Oh, I've got no doubt that Parish will play 200 games. None whatsoever.

I couldn't tell what separates him, at this point in time, from the VFL mids I referred to in my other post.

I'm always content to wear the growing pains with a young player when I can see the bigger picture.
 

JayJ20

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It's not directed at just you. This board has a problem in general mocking concerns people have just because they don't follow the general consensus that this place has on an individual player or the team. I am not writing off Parish yet but I think it's interesting listening to those who see something that we don't see or want to critically analyse a player without sugar coating it.
Agreed. Some people can’t handle constructive criticism of a player or the team on this board. It makes it unbearable sometimes.
 

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Hm. May not be on the list next year.
It’s a long season and much can happen.

Who else feels like his development isn’t where it should be?

He just doesn’t the tools for the job & is perhaps being played out of position.

Someone was always going to be dislodged by Shiel, guess it’s him at this stage. Guelfi’s development doesn’t do him any favours

At the end of the day I want to win flags. I’m not here to be mediocre. He doesn’t do anything for me and I am happy he isn’t in the side.

Just saying.....
 
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It's not directed at just you. This board has a problem in general mocking concerns people have just because they don't follow the general consensus that this place has on an individual player or the team. I am not writing off Parish yet but I think it's interesting listening to those who see something that we don't see or want to critically analyse a player without sugar coating it.

This x 1000 %
 
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Screen Shot 2019-03-22 at 6.43.15 pm.png


That's our midfielders this year, and shows the five weeks leading into round 1 (if they're playing in round 1 they're marked as 'mid' - this is from the 'by role' tab of the spreadsheet in my sig).

I don't think comparing Parish and Guelfi is really helpful. Parish is an inside/outside mid and rolls through the forward line. He needs time on the inside to get involved with the game, similar to Zaharakis perhaps. Guelfi is a bit of an all-rounder working from half-back to half-forward as a link-up player, he doesn't really do clearance work and gets less possessions and handballs as a result. Really quite a different style of player.

Parish's inside/outside mid role has been taken by Shiel. He ain't getting that one back.

If he's going to be best 22 he needs to be better on the inside than Shiel, Langford, Myers, Heppell, or better on the outside than Guelfi, Smith, McGrath, Merrett, Zaharakis. Unfortunately he does both things well but neither better than those ahead of him.

He's basically reliant on the team requiring more inside mids than we have in the side currently (probably depends on who the opposition is), or injuries to others making space for him.

That's not necessarily a permanent situation, as eventually Myers and Zaka will have to retire and no one behind him is likely to push him any further down the pecking order at this stage. I think he'd be a decent replacement for Zaka, though Zaka might be a little quicker. He's not really at all similar to Myers but if Langford moves into that role then Parish moves up as well.
 
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I want Parish to push out Zaharakis. Thats his challenge. I would prefer Darcy to not get a game due 'injury' but it will most likely occur.
Zaka has his short comings and the team looks like its pushing in a direction that will expose Zaka's shortcomings more i.e. his defensive side. I think Parish has more upside then Zaka but needs to keep working and proving he should play. I hope he can, but not sure he will. Fingers crossed.
 
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