3 don't fit into 2

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Mar 11, 2008
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3 doesn't fit into 2

I can see our team looking like this with perhaps some positional shuffling;

Krakouer, Cloke, ????
Didak, Dawes, Brown
Thomas, Pendlebury, Beams
O'Brien, Reid, Shaw
Toovey, Tarrant, Davis

Foll: Jolly, Swan, Ball

Int: Johnson, Wellingham, Maxwell
SUB ????

Personally I think those 19 are relatively safe. I also think Goldsack was selected as insurance for Maxwell on Saturday and also because Reid was out. That selection does not seem as necessary anymore considering how well our defence performed and also that Reid is a likely inclusion

That leaves Sidebottom, Fasolo and Blair to fill the last 2 spots.

Blair is essential because he's our only real fulltime "forward pressure" small forward which is essential to our press and unless you select Macaffer, play Toovey or Thomas forward or miraculously heal Dick then it's Blair at this stage. Structurally he can be more important than the other 2 even though he is probably the most limited in terms of the impact he can have from an offensive perspective.

That leaves the sub slot to either Sidebottom or Fasolo. I think the coaches will select Sidebottom and I agree that at this stage he is a better footballer but if I was making the selection, I would pick Fasolo. I think he has the ability to have far more impact in limited minutes as a sub and this was proven in 5 minutes on the weekend where in 5 minutes of game time he dished off the sealer then kicked one himself. We scored 12 goals for the entire game. He mightn't get it often but he is deadly when he does and in finals, you need to make the most of the opportunities that you have. I am by no means saying that I do not rate Sidebottom and he is easily in the best 22 players at the club but that is not how you select a side. He is CLEARLY out of form and there is no other obvious omission at this stage.

Note: I do not subscribe to the theory that Didak might lose his spot. He had two 10 possession quarters as a sub and then a couple of 30 touch games from full matches thereafter. He may not be at his best but he plays the same role as Sidebottom and is clearly in superior form to him at this stage. Also, I saw signs early on Saturday which had me thinking that he is regaining his sharpness.

The other option is to drop Fasolo and to pick Wellingham as the sub who I think has the potential to have more impact in that role to Sidey. One of Sidebottom's best attributes is his endurance and he does not have the pace or the urgency in his game to be a classical "impact" player. Wellingham does I think.

Thoughts?
 

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Tippy78

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I don't agree that its 3 into 2. Personally I think its 5 into 3 with Goldsack and Didak added to the mix.

I reckon in order to play its Didak, Sidey, Blair, Goldsack, Fasolo but any two of the five could easily miss.

Didak - Needs to have a big prelim or is in trouble in my opinion. Is able to perform as a sub so has that position to fall back on.

Sidey - Along with Didak, needs a big prelim. I don't think he'd make a good sub so he is at risk. The fact he has played every game this year means he must be doing something right though.

Blair - Personally i love the guy and I think he should be a lock. His in and under work through the forward line has been great all year. Goal kicking has escaped him recently which is a concern

Goldsack - Can't see him making the main team unless we have an injury. However I would see him as a very good chance to sneak in as a sub due to his flexibility in roles

Fasolo - Wouldn't mind it if Mick decided to include him, but I think its more likely he will wait his turn until next year where he will almost certainly push into top 22.
 

JollyRoger

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Note: I do not subscribe to the theory that Didak might lose his spot. He had two 10 possession quarters as a sub and then a couple of 30 touch games from full matches thereafter. He may not be at his best but he plays the same role as Sidebottom and is clearly in superior form to him at this stage. Also, I saw signs early on Saturday which had me thinking that he is regaining his sharpness.

I'm just not seeing it.. regardless of numbers he just hasnt got that magic.. and his disposals arent nearly as damaging as what we've come to expect. That bouncing ball in the open goal wouldve been gobbled up no worries last year.

Personally i think sidey (9 tackles) holds his spot fas out and dids the sub.
 
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I agree with this. Fasolo might force his way in next year but right now I don't think he's up to it. I have no problem with him being the sub, but not a full game in an intense final.

I agree. He wouldn't have the conditioning yet for a full game but I see him as the perfect sub. He's tricky, has great disposal and is a deadly finisher which could mean the difference between winning and losing.

I think the sub should be someone who could change the game in a short period of time and I think he has the attributes to be that player.

I'm just not seeing it.. regardless of numbers he just hasnt got that magic.. and his disposals arent nearly as damaging as what we've come to expect. That bouncing ball in the open goal wouldve been gobbled up no worries last year.

Personally i think sidey (9 tackles) holds his spot fas out and dids the sub.

He's not back to his best I agree but I reckon there are signs. Compare his form now to his form when he first came back into the side prior to his injury in Round 14 and it's day and night.

I do not think he is playing fantastic football, I just think that he is a better option as that outside linkman player than Sidebottom. Sidebottom is an excellent player but he's been anonymous for the majority of the season. He also doesn't have the same potential to just come out and destroy a team in 10 minutes of football that Dids does. Long shot I know but it's 2 out of form players and 1 has more experience and a higher ceiling.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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Sidey? Are you serious?

Sure, he's not had the same impact as last year. But he tackles very hard, is good on both feet and is a big-game player. Lock. Didak too.

I'd go Blair for pressure acts over Fas.
 

Running Bull

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Goldy played a bloody good game on Saturday and I would want to stick with him over the finals as he rarely gets his colors lowered, plays forward and back and really puts in the 1%ers.

Having said that it is really horses for courses, but if we get to the GF against Geelong, then I think he would be the perfect defensive forward to play on Scarlett. One of the lessons that we need Tom learn off both Essendon and the Swans is that this position needs to be played.
 
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Sidebottom had ten times more impact on Saturday than Dids.

This is true but he still didn't play "well." I really like Sidey as a player but if we're honest he hasn't played a game where he's genuinely influenced the contest since about Round 20. Didak has been the better player over the last 4-5 weeks and regardless of form, there is absolutely no way he'll be dropped so that's why I've eliminated him from the discussion. Didak will be picked, rightly or wrongly (in my opinion rightly) so it's a moot point.

I'm not necessarily saying he should be dropped either. I am just saying that I don't believe the coaching staff would actually consider the other 19 for non-selection. Therefore I am opening up the discussion to the merits of the other 3. As I said, I think Sidebottom is a better player than Blair or Fas but Blair is our only real defensive forward with a realistic chance of selection and this is vital to our structure. As I've said, Fas would be more useful as a sub than Sidebottom.

Personally I think Fas will be dropped. That's why I suggested an alternative where Wellingham plays as the sub the sub because Blair needs to play at least most of the game for the pressure he brings and Sidebottom is an excellent endurance athlete so is a little wasted as a sub. He's not as dynamic as Fasolo either so IMO won't be able to influence the contest as much in a short period.

Sidey? Are you serious?

Sure, he's not had the same impact as last year. But he tackles very hard, is good on both feet and is a big-game player. Lock. Didak too.

I'd go Blair for pressure acts over Fas.

Agree with most of what you've said but someone has to be the sub. Fasolo is not a pressure player like Blair either but that's not why he'd be picked.

At 21-2 for the season there are not too many plodders in the side. Goldsack for instance is a very good player and one of my favourites but he is almost guaranteed to be dropped with Reid coming back and Maxi standing up last game.
 

noideaatall

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Agree with most of what you've said but someone has to be the sub. Fasolo is not a pressure player like Blair either but that's not why he'd be picked.

At 21-2 for the season there are not too many plodders in the side. Goldsack for instance is a very good player and one of my favourites but he is almost guaranteed to be dropped with Reid coming back and Maxi standing up last game.[/quote]

Dids as sub. did alright a few weeks ago. has been an x factor forward in the past. Fas misses out, based on structure and experience. Same with the sack. Both would rightly feel peeved with the selection.
 

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from the discussion it appears many have a problem understanding what the sub means. and yeah maybe even me.

IMO we now select 21 players, NOT 22. i also believe we need that sub to be an attacking role, not defensive and versatile. other clubs might see it as that defence against losing a player, but to win premierships it needs to be all out attack with the view to continue that attack with the sub.

therefore goldsack only gets a game while reid is out. and he is a starter. as for the sub, using the description i gave it has to be either didak or fasolo. on last weeks game didak seems to have dropped back again to his pre calf injury form. but his ability to create and pull off the amazing means he remains in contention. fasolo provides similiar creativity, and like didak is a superb kick.

so from now on guys pick 21 players, not 22. and then seek out your best sub. and decide whether that person is used to minimise losses or to reinforce your advantage.

for me the sub has to be fasolo.
 

mdc

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Rusler, I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure Sidebottom is any more likely to be considered for non-selection than Didak.

Personally, I'd consider Blair a lock because he's the only genuine mid of the lot, and his pressure is the best of the 4 too.

I'm also convinced that Fasolo is clearly the best 1-quarter player of the lot, which is basically what it comes down to with a sub.

So that leaves Didak & Sidebottom. And I'd lean towards leaving out Didak, simply because Sidebottom has a much more defined role and will do a better job defensively in terms of zoning and tackling.

In the real world though, I'd be amazed with any result other than Goldy & Fasolo going out. Blair to start sub in all likelihood.
 

blaze036

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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

Blair is essential because he's our only real fulltime "forward pressure" small forward which is essential to our press and unless you select Macaffer, play Toovey or Thomas forward or miraculously heal Dick then it's Blair at this stage. Structurally he can be more important than the other 2 even though he is probably the most limited in terms of the impact he can have from an offensive perspective.

Have u been watching our games lately? we dont really have forward pressure let alone a forward press. his had 1 and 2 tackles past 2 weeks his not essential at all, sidebottom and blair ahead of fasolo.
 
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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

Have u been watching our games lately? we dont really have forward pressure let alone a forward press. his had 1 and 2 tackles past 2 weeks his not essential at all, sidebottom and blair ahead of fasolo.

Yes I have.

Blair had 8, 5, 5, 5 and 9 tackles the 5 weeks prior as well. I think all would agree that as a team we did not put on the amount of pressure we normally would against Geelong and frankly, we didn't get it in to our forward half enough to press correctly.

If you've watched us for the last 2 years and not just the last 2 weeks you will see that the forward press is the way we play and that intense tackling and pressure in the forward 50 arc is vital to that. Blair is better at that than Sidey or Fasolo and for that reason he keeps his spot.

vjknight I agree with you completely. I said at the start of the season that we should be using the sub position as a weapon and not a contingency plan and that a spare parts player or a "versatile backline player" should not be used in that role. Fasolo is the perfect sub IMO unless the coaches decide that Dids should play the role, in which case Fasolo would not be selected at all.

Fair points noideaatall and mdc. In all likelihood Fasolo and Goldsack will be the outs and are probably the most obvious outs at this stage. I would be very surprised if the coaches don't go that way. I just see Fasolo as the perfect sub. Just as you select a player who is good at playing full forward as your full forward you should pick someone with the attributes to be an effective sub as your sub.
 

blaze036

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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

our game plan has changed a lot since 2010, we simply cannot keep the same amount of forward 50 pressure with the increase of fatigue the sub rule creates and were not locking the ball in from kick ins or stoppages anywhere like how we use to, getting much more goals this year from bombs and chips to the 40 m arc instead of from stoppages inside forward 50
 

lgarth80

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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

Interesting to think of the discussion in light of the GF Replay.
Most would have dumped Davis without much of a second thought, but there were a very small minority who wanted Leon in for his "X factor".

Now we see lots of people wanting X factor in the finals in the person of Fasolo. I'm sorry but even though I would have played Davis in the GFR last year (and we would have won by more and Leon would probably have kicked 5 and gone close to NSM), facts remain that our coaching staff didn't agree.

Therefore I think it's highly likely that barring injury Fasolo won't get another gig this year. But what a final cameo performance he put forward.

Reid must return. If that happens we need to put Goldsack on ice. It's a shame to be the consistent 23rd man in a side, but the fact remains that it does mean you're the first one called upon in the event of injuries. Also depending on the opposition, Goldsack may be preferred in the horses for courses.

Against Sydney, I'd certainly consider having Goldsack in the 22, as having an extra option for Goodes is always worth keeping in the locker. Not sure about Hawthorn as you'd think Tarrant/Reid/Maxwell would wax on Franklin. Geelong for mine are too tall up forward, and our strategy of running the ball out of defence which worked against WCE will be similar against the Cats. This would count against Goldsack I'd think if we played WCE/Geel in a grand final. Against Carlton, I'm not sure. I think I'd feel more secure with Goldsack in against them also, but hmmm a tough one.

Sidebottom has played every game and would be very stiff to miss. He has a poise about him and is a "one grab" player so I think that suits finals footy. He can also have a run in the centre without getting buggered. So I think he's a cert.

Didak v Fasolo for mine - the past or the future? Didak has shown a greater ability over a longer period of time, has the track record, and simply must get the run.

If there is any doubt on Didak's fitness (or indeed anyone in that forward/mid mix) then we have a ready replacement.

To be honest I reckon we have a really strong 24-25 players, and would love to see us unleash our best footy when it counts the most. It's going to be massive next Friday night, and will take a big effort regardless of the opposition. Just like the Eagles not giving an inch, Hawthorn and Sydney will be the same. And the fact that it's the big dance on one side of the equation and curtains for the other, that just means that their hardened seasoned players will go that much deeper into the red just to win.

That's why I'd go Didak, and why Goldsack is still in the mix, depending on opponents.
 
Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

I'd take Blair and Sidebottom over Fasolo.

Tough for the kid but he should be proud of the season he has had in his first year.

Blair's pressure is enormous and has proven throughout the season he can be the difference.

Sidebottom I've criticised largely this season, but his tackling is immense. He might not chase and produce pressure like Blair, but once his arms wrap around his opponent they are not coming off.

And finally, both players have proven to be able to handle the pressure of finals whereas Fasolo has not. Both of them have more finals experience too.
 
Blair has missed one game, booted 25 goals, 17 assists and laid 86 tackles (4th highest at club) is very safe imo.
Sidey has played every game, booted 23 goals, 16 assists and laid 89 tackles (3rd highest at club) is safer than Blair imo.

Agree with MDC/Igarth - Didak is the man in trouble people, 9 goals, really poor disposal efficiency for him at less than 65% :eek: - has had little or no impact even when his "numbers" have looked good.

Dont know if my expectations of Dids is fair but I expect an average 1.3 goals per game, 73% efficiency and a hell of a lot more shimmies!:p
AS for "X" - factor he seems to have misplaced his mojo?

Given current form, impact on games - Fasolo is way ahead of Dids as sub - VJ's description sounds good to me - early the game is hard and frenetic and this favours the tacklers in Blair and Sidey. For shock value Dids or Fas come in once the heat is off after half time.
 
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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

I can see where you are all coming from about Didak but I just think there is about a 0.00% chance of him being dropped, whether he should be or not.

He might be out of form but he is not in trouble IMO. Didak pretty much sacrificed his year from a personal perspective to help us get over the line last year. Anyone who attended the post-premiership family day the day after the GF Replay will know that this was not lost on the powers that be within the club. The club held him up to be a brave club hero who should be lauded from all angles for his efforts (I agree with them) and it would take a brave man to drop him now. Won't happen.
 

jonbe54

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Re: 3 doesn't fit into 2

I can see where you are all coming from about Didak but I just think there is about a 0.00% chance of him being dropped, whether he should be or not.

He might be out of form but he is not in trouble IMO. Didak pretty much sacrificed his year from a personal perspective to help us get over the line last year. Anyone who attended the post-premiership family day the day after the GF Replay will know that this was not lost on the powers that be within the club. The club held him up to be a brave club hero who should be lauded from all angles for his efforts (I agree with them) and it would take a brave man to drop him now. Won't happen.
Yes playing with a detached pec is NO joke, lots of peeps said dids owed the club plenty for backing him when he made an a-hole of himself, well he has done that and more last year now the boot is on the other foot.
 
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I think If Dids doesn't feel right then he should nominate himself to be sidelined, kind of like Presti last year. It would be a damn hard decision to make, and you'd have to respect a long time veteran of the club for putting the team first over himself.
 
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