Player Watch #30 Tom McCartin - bringing opposition forward entries to ground

(Log in to remove this ad.)

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
12,001
Likes
12,324
AFL Club
Sydney
That would be unusual for this place! The norm is agreeable discussion and occasional expression of differences of view. Of course there is the odd complaint about the scandalous use of nicknames.
Yes but there will always be people who view an expression of opinion as “complaining” just because they may not agree with said opinion.
 

Bloodied52

Premium Platinum
Joined
May 24, 2017
Posts
5,740
Likes
5,474
Location
Old South Grandstand
AFL Club
Sydney
Yes but there will always be people who view an expression of opinion as “complaining” just because they may not agree with said opinion.
... was just having a bit of fun, and yes, you are correct. Too many, doubtless me included, participate in debates in black and white terms (and we all know black and white is an unfortunate colour mix when it comes to footy).
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
12,001
Likes
12,324
AFL Club
Sydney
... was just having a bit of fun, and yes, you are correct. Too many, doubtless me included, participate in debates in black and white terms (and we all know black and white is an unfortunate colour mix when it comes to footy).
Yeah wasn't having a go at you, was more in reference to others :)
 

Kiama Chris

Team Captain
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
469
Likes
723
Location
Kiama
AFL Club
Sydney
You've misunderstood my point. He is dead weight because he's not that good, not because he's injured. If he was a quality player, you'd cop the injuries and extended lay-offs because he'd more than make up for it when he is fit (example: AJ, who was on track to becoming a star before his injuries, so he earned the good faith and patience.) Reid, on the other hand, we're carrying on the list, injuries and all, and then when he does play, he doesn't contribute up to standard (IMO). That is dead weight to me. He's been a Swan for, what, nearly ten years now? And in that time his career can be summarised by two terms: injury-prone, and mediocrity.

Now you may rate Reid, so you may disagree that he's mediocre, or you may agree that he's mediocre and may attribute that to his injuries. Either way, that's just what I think hence my perspective on the subject.

As for our failed forward line of 2018, I will give you what you want and explain myself. I think our forward line in 2018 was good. I was happy with it. The smalls (Hayward, Papley, Ronke) are all capable of kicking 30+ goals in a season. Buddy is self-explanatory. Parker and Heeney looked dangerous every time they rotated through there. And McCartin, while young and struggled at times, was not the issue. So the personnel itself is actually fine. It was the delivery inside 50 (midfielders) and the nature of our game that means all players get sucked up to one part of the ground in order to squeeze the pace out of the game (coaching staff) that really killed us and hurt our ability to score. All the pieces for a quality forward line were there, they just weren't used to their capacity. So I'm happy with our forward line and don't see the need for Reid tbh.
I have watched Reid play since he started. Early on he was a gun when the ball came in fairly flat (see what he does providing an outlet on the wing) and he attacked it. Sinkers has had the same problem. Delivery is a big part of the issue, as you alluded to for 2018. It has been an issue for some time. We tend to put too much height on the ball. On top of that Buddy's marking is his worst aspect. Reid is a good player (in attack!) when the delivery is to his advantage.
McCartin is an incredible prospect and his body is something for a barely 18 year old.
Sinclair started to come good as a FF late in 2017 when he also started to attack the flight of the ball better.
So we have 4 pretty decent talls. The biggest challenge for the coaches will be who to leave out. My guess is that they will play Sinkers as ruck and use Reid and McCartin as second and third talls. Naismith will only play if one of the four are injured.
This then brings the challenge of which smalls to leave out?
One slot needs to be kept for Parker, Heeney and JPK to rotate through. So there is only room for 3 or at most 4 smalls in the 22. I think KIzza will be the one to miss out. A great servant but he was looking pretty cooked.
There are similar issues in the backline too.
 

Kiama Chris

Team Captain
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
469
Likes
723
Location
Kiama
AFL Club
Sydney
I really hope his pre season is going well and time has been found for him to practice goal kicking.

It has been a very long time since we have had such a promising young tall forward. Maybe the last time I was so enthusiastic about a debut season was that of a young Terry Daniher. (Well documented of course was the idiot Stewart trading him for Nev Fields - so I was really delighted we signed him up, proving that Horse is smarter than Stewart)

McCartin and Daniher share some attributes - sticky hands, good on the ground, determination in the contest, team orientation, good vision imagination and footy smarts, ability to run for long periods, not being overawed by anyone, enjoying physicality inc tackling).

TD was not spectacular - other than in his consistency. I think TM will be the same. (tho my favourite Bloods goal of the season was TM lying on the ground getting possession and scrambling a miracle drop kick goal)

Most of us in the best 22 thread have him outside calculations for selection. I do not. I have him in the frame and expect he will play a lot of solid games for us in 2019.

Assuming Menzel gets games, it is imperative that every other forward especially the talls are highly mobile. The Menzel limitations re defensive pressure are well documented but these are balanced by his attacking attributes.

I am concerned by the notion of playing both Naismith and Sinkers with the latter as a fwd/ruck. A forward line of Buddy, Reid, Sinkers, Menzel and two rotating small forwards (from Ronke, Papley, Parker, Hewey, Haylist etc) strikes me as top heavy. McCartin will be able to get to and make contests that Sinkers can not

With a second pre-season and the addition of Reid and Menzel to the forward line, TM would provide another reliable target and the pack busting work horse every successful forward line would like.

I am really looking forward to his further development this year and believe he will be integral to our prospects of success. I am interested in other people's views.
I don't think we'll see a lot of Menzel unless someone is injured. Reminds me a bit of Mitch Morton when he first came to the club. Kicked bags in the ressies but didn't get selected until his defence reached the standard. Played 3 fantastic games and retired.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
12,001
Likes
12,324
AFL Club
Sydney
I have watched Reid play since he started. Early on he was a gun when the ball came in fairly flat (see what he does providing an outlet on the wing) and he attacked it. Sinkers has had the same problem. Delivery is a big part of the issue, as you alluded to for 2018. It has been an issue for some time. We tend to put too much height on the ball. On top of that Buddy's marking is his worst aspect. Reid is a good player (in attack!) when the delivery is to his advantage.
McCartin is an incredible prospect and his body is something for a barely 18 year old.
Sinclair started to come good as a FF late in 2017 when he also started to attack the flight of the ball better.
So we have 4 pretty decent talls. The biggest challenge for the coaches will be who to leave out. My guess is that they will play Sinkers as ruck and use Reid and McCartin as second and third talls. Naismith will only play if one of the four are injured.
This then brings the challenge of which smalls to leave out?
One slot needs to be kept for Parker, Heeney and JPK to rotate through. So there is only room for 3 or at most 4 smalls in the 22. I think KIzza will be the one to miss out. A great servant but he was looking pretty cooked.
There are similar issues in the backline too.
Agree re Jack, he was a total liability last year IMO.

As for the talls, I think we have plenty of talls, but the only one I'd have as a lock for the team is Buddy, because the rest just don't do enough. McCartin totally forgiven as he is only 18, but I don't really rate Reid or Sinclair, though I loved Sinclair's efforts to better himself in 2018. Even Naismith, not great around the ground so his strength is tap-work, but even his tap-work isn't that solid, it's just OK. So there's a few blokes to work with but they all scream mediocrity (probably too harsh a word but I can't think of a better alternative.) If even one of them can rise above and have a real breakout year that would go a long way to helping us. I'm not convinced Reid in 2017 or Sinclair in 2018 were breakout years.
 

Kiama Chris

Team Captain
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
469
Likes
723
Location
Kiama
AFL Club
Sydney
The club obviously believe Reid is important to our structures when fit & becomes an automatic selection into the team. Does this mean he is one of the best in the competition when out there? No, but that’s not what we want him to be. The club wants him to carry out his role in order for our system to function & we saw that in round 1 against West Coast, the eventual premiers, over on their home turf. Now I liken him to Darking who can be putrid at times like he was in that first half of the GF but he pretty much got them over the line with his contested marking in the second half though he dropped that sitter to be able to seal the match. We don’t need Reid to be in the top 50 forwards in the competition. We just need Reid to be the Sam Reid that bobs up & clunks a contested mark down back & one or two in the wing & one or two up forward for a goal or two or to get in the opposition defender’s space to allow his fellow forwards to do their thing if he can’t get to the ball. The club believe he understands his role well & it is for this reason that he is highly regarded in our system.
Now is he worth being on our list in hindsight? How in the hell can anyone seriously argue things in hindsight with a straight face? You sign him or someone else will. He is happy as a Swan & he can play to a capacity that can contribute to p’ship success. Now that is a fact & we like stats & facts on here.
Terrific comment Ted and bang on.
 

BloodySwan

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Posts
3,370
Likes
5,490
AFL Club
Sydney

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
12,001
Likes
12,324
AFL Club
Sydney
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-01-25/defender-no-more-young-swan-dominates-match-sim



People are going to be pleased about McCartin spending some time in defence here!
I’m actually gonna give Horse the benefit of the doubt here. It sounds like half the squad didn’t even participate in the match simulation this morning, so it’s possible they just needed a tall to fill in down back if they didn’t want Thurlow or Maibaum or Aliir or Grundy playing full game-time.

If I see it again in any proper match form I will hurl.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BloodySwan

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Posts
3,370
Likes
5,490
AFL Club
Sydney
I’m actually gonna give Horse the benefit of the doubt here. It sounds like half the squad didn’t even participate in the match simulation this morning, so it’s possible they just needed a tall to fill in down back if they didn’t want Thurlow or Maibaum or Aliir or Grundy playing full game-time.

If I see it again in any proper match form I will hurl.
Or you know, we're up 10 points with 2 minutes to go against West Coast. We would be silly not to throw an extra marking tall down back to protect us against Kennedy & Darling
 

TheMase

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Posts
17,174
Likes
10,808
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
It’s hardly uncommon to see a forward thrown into defence to school them on leading patterns and the like on experienced forwards.

If he isn’t able to improve his goal kicking over time I’d expect him to make it in defence anyway.

Grundy was drafted as a forward after all.
 

Big Blood

All Australian
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Posts
902
Likes
1,389
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sturt

RUNVS

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Posts
33,524
Likes
29,905
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
McCartins and head knocks!
I said it on the preseason thread but it sounds like this could be genetic, which is actually worse than the alternative as genetic means there is nothing that can be done to treat it. It is like Alex Johnson with his knees, where no matter what his body was just going to keep failing him.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
12,001
Likes
12,324
AFL Club
Sydney
I said it on the preseason thread but it sounds like this could be genetic, which is actually worse than the alternative as genetic means there is nothing that can be done to treat it. It is like Alex Johnson with his knees, where no matter what his body was just going to keep failing him.
Is concussion genetics-related though? Isn't it just the result of a head knock? As in any human being on Earth could bang their head against a brick wall and they'd have concussion problems regardless of who they're related to. Unless I'm wrong?
 

S120

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Posts
9,100
Likes
8,433
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Wallabies
Is concussion genetics-related though? Isn't it just the result of a head knock? As in any human being on Earth could bang their head against a brick wall and they'd have concussion problems regardless of who they're related to. Unless I'm wrong?
There's pretty strong evidence that the susceptibility to and recovery from concussion are at least partly related to genetics. Not an expert, but I've read the genes and proteins which encode for synaptic recovery and plasticity vary amongst the population so knocks to the head can affect people differently. The McCartins might be an unlucky football family with respect to their genetic makeup, although we'd never really know unless they were tested specifically for some of these markers.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,615
Likes
15,589
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Just had a chat to an ex player who looks after young AFL talent & his information is that it is a very significant concussion likely to keep him from playing for a while.
The club will surely not risk the young man's long term health so I wouldn't expect Tom to play the first half of the season if at all according to what I just heard. Sorry to bring that news folks.
 
Top Bottom