Player Watch #31: Josh Goater - BFNAAK - selected with pick 22 in the ND - Welcome to North Melbourne

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roos_fanatic08

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So I just went back and watched back footage of his game from the weekend again.

Hands down his best of the year after struggling to find the ball and impact the game in his first year. Stoked for him to get a game like this under his belt and it should do him a world of good.

Some things that stood out:
  • Sure hands when intercept marking
  • Super clean taking possession of the ball under pressure
  • Made some seriously good kicks and attacking handballs to get some speed on the ball and open up the play

I wish he used more of his run and carry to break the lines, and mixed it with his long kicking to turn himself into a metres gained beast. I mentioned this in the VFL thread during the game, but he's playing as one of the last 3 defenders for some reason. I'd personally have him on the back flank and give him the license to run, carry and be putting bombs into forward 50 before the defense has a chance to get set. Even if he's not positioning his kicks perfectly in this situation, our goal should be to create stoppages inside forward 50m or goal scoring opportunities. Play Stephenson deep 1-out or a tall up forward with someone like Mahony or Dib at their feet.

There were a few moments where his decision making and execution was average, but the more ball and exposure he gets at this level, he'll be able to improve those things.

Still can't believe we haven't even given him 5 minutes in the middle this year. He is so good in those contested situations. I'd love to see him just get 10 minutes a game in there. Nothing to lose really.
 

Souup

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How much do you think he could unlock the run once the vfl side is more competitive. How much of the current situation is because we are “pinned back”?
Yeah 100% it could. Without a doubt the development of these young guys is being negative affected by being flogged most weeks at VFL level.
 

the flying ham

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Still can't believe we haven't even given him 5 minutes in the middle this year. He is so good in those contested situations. I'd love to see him just get 10 minutes a game in there. Nothing to lose really.
Yep, particularly when we have had many CBs this year with all VFL listed players in there. It's a missed oppo for our players to learn a new craft
 

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Northwards

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Yep, particularly when we have had many CBs this year with all VFL listed players in there. It's a missed oppo for our players to learn a new craft
No other club does this crap that has their own VFL side (Essendon are trash currently) but we’ve always been weak. We seem to be so far behind the curve with this. A massive priority for development should be putting a finals contending team on the park to assist the young players and have them play in meaningful games every week.

As bad as we are AFL wise, would be fantastic to be buoyed by some hope and great play from our next gen, and seeing them in a finals bound side in the second tier to show that we are at least on the right track.

Goater, archer, spicer not getting any better in a team getting spanked by 60-70 every week.
 

Souup

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Again, looked really good on the weekend when he got possession. Only 11 touches but used the ball well by hand and foot, took a nice contested mark and used his pace on a couple of occasions to get himself free. I know people hate supercoach/ranking point around here, but his game was worth 74 rankings points despite him only touching it 11 times. It shows how effective he was offensively when he did touch the footy.

I'll repeat what I said last game - I still have no idea why he's playing deep as one of the last defenders. I'd be trying to get the ball in his hands as much as possible to build his confidence in his first year and allow him to use his weapons. Instead, he seems to be the last 1 or 2 defenders, touching the ball less than 14 times a game on average and has very little freedom.
 
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PokerRoo

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Again, looked really good on the weekend when he got possession. Only 11 touches but used the ball well by hand and foot, took a nice contested mark and used his pace on a couple of occasions to get himself free. I know people hate supercoach/ranking point around here, but his game was worth 74 rankings points despite him only touching it 11 times. It shows how effective he was offensively when he did touch the footy.

I'll repeat what I said last game - I still have no idea why he's playing deep as one of the last defenders. I'd be trying to get the ball in his hands as much as possible to build his confidence in his first year and allow him to use his weapons. Instead, he seems to be the last 1 or 2 defenders, touching the ball less than 14 times a game on average and has very little freedom.

Hopefully Kallan Dawson playing will help this. It looks like he is almost playing as a KPD at the moment, KD in will help him hopefully move up the ground a bit
 

FootySmartSimpson

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Again, looked really good on the weekend when he got possession. Only 11 touches but used the ball well by hand and foot, took a nice contested mark and used his pace on a couple of occasions to get himself free. I know people hate supercoach/ranking point around here, but his game was worth 74 rankings points despite him only touching it 11 times. It shows how effective he was offensively when he did touch the footy.

I'll repeat what I said last game - I still have no idea why he's playing deep as one of the last defenders. I'd be trying to get the ball in his hands as much as possible to build his confidence in his first year and allow him to use his weapons. Instead, he seems to be the last 1 or 2 defenders, touching the ball less than 14 times a game on average and has very little freedom.
It’s the North Academy of Turning creative, line-breaking playmakers into dour defenders.
 

Tas

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No other club does this crap that has their own VFL side (Essendon are trash currently) but we’ve always been weak. We seem to be so far behind the curve with this. A massive priority for development should be putting a finals contending team on the park to assist the young players and have them play in meaningful games every week.

As bad as we are AFL wise, would be fantastic to be buoyed by some hope and great play from our next gen, and seeing them in a finals bound side in the second tier to show that we are at least on the right track.

Goater, archer, spicer not getting any better in a team getting spanked by 60-70 every week.

I remember people trying to convince me it would be so much better having our own side instead of playing with Werribee and making finals every year.
 

shintemaster

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I remember people trying to convince me it would be so much better having our own side instead of playing with Werribee and making finals every year.
It would be however it is clear that we need to be willing to spend significantly more on our team. It is not sustainable especially given list sizes have contracted since COVID to have so the remainder of the AFL list post injuries as the backbone of the VFL team. I don't know the financials of these squads but from my seat it looks like we need to be willing to spend at least several hundred thousand more on the VFL squad. I wouldn't be adverse to some Tom Lynch style creativity with the squad. It is unfathomable to me that there wouldn't be good experienced 2nds level players that never made it to AFL level that would have plenty to offer both as experienced squad members and provide playing coach style benefits. We need our kids in the VFL to be developing around a proper team with support.

It all takes money though and we have to be willing to spend it.
 

Star

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I remember people trying to convince me it would be so much better having our own side instead of playing with Werribee and making finals every year.

Looking at the current list of unavailable players:

Miller Bergman, Aiden Bonar, Charlie Comben, Ben Cunnington, Kallan Dawson, Jason Horne-Francis, Ben McKay, Will Phillips, Jared Polec, Lachie Young, Jack Ziebell, Cam Zurhaar

If you add them to the VFL team (or obviously the AFL team with the resultant players they replace slipping down to VFL) then it is a much different scenario to having 3 or 4 young listed players in the seconds team
 

koshari

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Looking at the current list of unavailable players:

Miller Bergman, Aiden Bonar, Charlie Comben, Ben Cunnington, Kallan Dawson, Jason Horne-Francis, Ben McKay, Will Phillips, Jared Polec, Lachie Young, Jack Ziebell, Cam Zurhaar

If you add them to the VFL team (or obviously the AFL team with the resultant players they replace slipping down to VFL) then it is a much different scenario to having 3 or 4 young listed players in the seconds team
this is why decent depth is so important, 6 to 8 players on the unavailable list isnt unusual come mid season, it is pretty much disastrous on top of out lack of depth to have them out.
 

Star

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this is why decent depth is so important, 6 to 8 players on the unavailable list isnt unusual come mid season, it is pretty much disastrous on top of out lack of depth to have them out.

Agree totally. It is one thing to have a mediocre list comprised of high potential but developing youth and average senior players but it hurts when even that list is decimated by key playmakers
 

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Mav

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Looking at the current list of unavailable players:

Miller Bergman, Aiden Bonar, Charlie Comben, Ben Cunnington, Kallan Dawson, Jason Horne-Francis, Ben McKay, Will Phillips, Jared Polec, Lachie Young, Jack Ziebell, Cam Zurhaar

If you add them to the VFL team (or obviously the AFL team with the resultant players they replace slipping down to VFL) then it is a much different scenario to having 3 or 4 young listed players in the seconds team
JHF, Young and JZ all played last weekend.
Dawson, and Mckay are available after the break, with Bonar and Zurhaar a chance to play.

But yeah, injuries dont help.
 

Tas

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Looking at the current list of unavailable players:

Miller Bergman, Aiden Bonar, Charlie Comben, Ben Cunnington, Kallan Dawson, Jason Horne-Francis, Ben McKay, Will Phillips, Jared Polec, Lachie Young, Jack Ziebell, Cam Zurhaar

If you add them to the VFL team (or obviously the AFL team with the resultant players they replace slipping down to VFL) then it is a much different scenario to having 3 or 4 young listed players in the seconds team

Not sure why you have Young and JHF who have been playing all year. But you highlight a significant problem, we don't carry enough non-AFL players to cope with senior player injuries.

The vast majority of those you have listed wouldn't be playing VFL, so you are just adding some fringe players to the VFL pool as well. I think it is hard for a rebuilding side because you don't have any depth, West Coast are on the bottom of the WAFL as well, Port is bottom 3 of SANFL. I think teams with strong and healthy lists tend to go okay but it isn't really helping shithouse teams get better. The only s**t team doing well in the reserve grade are the Crows.

It is obviously not a resource problem, because West Coast wouldn't be dead last in the WAFL if it just came down to money. It is a limitation of the system.
 

Star

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Tas

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Those names were straight off this: AFL Official Injury Update & Injury List - AFL.com.au

The point is the VFL team will get whacked with just 3-5 listed players available each week.

it is not just getting whacked, is not having a good enough structure for you to get a lot out of those VFL games.

When we were with Werribee or NB they had enough players to field 3 divisions, if we needed a ruckman, they had a ruckman, if we needed a key forward or key defender, they had them. They may not have been the greatest going around but you at least had the right structures so the players we had played in the VFL in the role we wanted them to play in the AFL.

With half our list being flankers, it is just simply impossible for them to play in our VFL side in the exact role we want them to play in the AFL, so those playing out of position for the sake of fielding a team aren't getting as much out of their development.
 

giantroo

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Josh Goater - pick 22

"He hasn't played a hell of a lot down back before this season, traditionally he's been more of a midfielder but he did play down back a little bit in his junior years. It's a different ball-game, senior back-line play versus playing at the junior level. It's very system-oriented and team-based, whereas he's come through a system where it's more individual-based.

It's taken a little bit of time for Josh to get the hang of that but in the last couple of weeks he's really got going and he's really embraced it. Some of his elite attributes have really started to come to the fore, especially on the weekend when we saw him running off his opponent, bouncing the ball, using his long kicking and taking some nice marks.

"His strengths are really coming out now he's been able to learn that team defensive system


 

Shinboner1

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I wonder if he see him as a HBF or we'll move him to the wing/mid in the next few years.
 

shintemaster

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It is obviously not a resource problem, because West Coast wouldn't be dead last in the WAFL if it just came down to money. It is a limitation of the system.
Yep. Big argument for a rethink of the whole system - do we go back to a full reserves comp? Do we build on the current setup? I don't know but reserve teams should be able to field a full team week in week out with a handful of AFL fringe players as top ops so these players can learn and build in a proper framework. I think it does come down to money though, like many issues in the AFL it is fundamentally about list sizes. I think these have been too small for years (reduced more during COVID) and need to be expanded for healthier development as well as better product (less need to develop every single 18 year old in the 1's).

He's probably the long term option for Halls replacement. Run and carry, long kick

If it's all the same to you I'd be pretty happy to see him as the shorter term option for Hall's teammate. We need more than one single player that can and is willing to run the ball out of the backline. We were so Hall focussed last week in his first game back it was embarrassing.
 

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