Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

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Grrr

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Ellis took a pretty solid hit early, his eye was pretty closed for most of the match, so yeah maybe he pulled out of a couple of contests early after. Sometimes a good hit takes a quarter or so to find your feet in the contest again. He is not an outside mid who is able to sit out and get some easy ball. His job is the hardest position on the ground, in at the coal face. As the game went on he worked his way back in. I thought he showed some good aggression at times, but might just take a while to buy into the structures of our new pressure game, that really only came together in the last 8 weeks of the season. Callum Moore was way off the pace with his chase and aggression, so it is not as easy as some may think. I know he is a rookie but he has been around a while.

Ellis is finding his feet at the top level. He may never make it due to being a bit undersized and a bit one paced, but he certainly has the skill levels required. In a fully fit team I doubt he would be there for Round1, but with Prestia maybe missing, (doubtful but maybe), it seems they are putting some game time into Ellis as he seems the next in line. Hopefully he comes good because he is a player that uses it well, although he obviously he needs to find more of it.
He is a bit like Townsend, Castagna, Broad, Grigg, even Lambert and a few others, most here wrote them off at some stage, including me, but with a bit of confidence and game time look how they are doing.
 

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blaisee

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You don't get credited with a tackle if you get brushed aside, you only get credited with a tackle 'when a player stops an opposition player with possession of the ball from getting a disposal away in a legal manner or reduces the effectiveness of the disposal forces a stoppage of play. In other words the tacklers action must change the course of play. So as much as both of you like to discredit Ellis' tackle numbers the truth is he is having an impact with them which is what you 2 have been asking for.

I'm almost positive you 2 would still find something to be critical about and you mentioning quality over quantity makes that thought a valid one.

Yes I criticised Miles game as lacking impact and the fact he averaged 30 odd disposals a game for the season and still struggled to break into the senior side suggests it's a valid criticism. As TI said quality of quantity is what counts.

It was said as an example of how some posters would still find reason to criticise a player. True to form one said it's not about quantity but quality. Yet when posters highlight a quality piece of play from Ellis they then pipe up with but he needs to get more of the ball. Can't have it both ways.
the fact of the matter is, Ellis does not get enough ball, he never has in his career. So saying that if he did get enough ball he would be criticized anyway would assume that there is some conspiracy against Ellis and that he has been treated unfairly. This is untrue, the fact is he has been gifted games, he has shown glimpses, but overall been looked after big time by the coaches .
 

prodigy

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Please myob as you’ve already failed to read what has been said and what has been made up.
What blaisee GD and myself addressed him on was that he was dreaming up rubbish and to stick to reality, so you didn’t actually read or understand what was being discussed.
Now go back inside your gallery and stick to the topic rather than flaring up childish arguments.

Well, I have read the entire thread and it seems to me that RT was quoting statistics which are factual. Maybe you should address his rebuttals instead of just going the man.
In terms of minding my own business, if you want a private conversation, don’t post on a public forum.


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I don’t think calls of CEllis shirking contests or being timid are on the mark. I think there has been clear improvements in CEllis game. Furthermore, with our relatively low disposal style (ranked 15th last season), and the likes of Cotchin, Martin, Grigg, Lambert, Prestia, Caddy et al. All more than capable of getting 20+, High disposal counts are not what CEllis will be about. His pass in the second I think when he was a handball away from the contest and drilled the leading forward is what we need. High impact disposals; quality over quantity.

That said, I still don’t think he has improved enough nor shown enough to warrant any calls of beat 22. He was emergency on GF day, and I think he still sits somewhere in the 22-25 player bracket. Injuries and form fluctuations happen so he should see playing time this year, and would expect to see him improve. Lastly, there clearly has been an emphasis of bringing him up to the contest, and in that regard TI is right IMO. He needs to add a few KGs to his frame. If he can do that, continue to improve and find confidence in himself and his body (which i believe doesn’t come naturally to CEllis), no reason he can’t make an impact this season as the year goes on.
 

mopsy

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He just seems one of those players who has all the tools but just can't get near it. At this point he needs to be able to average 15+ as a minimum as a midfielder, I don't think he can play forward or back.

I hope he makes it, he will be a very good player if he does, but at this point I doubt it.
thats just it though, he doesn't have all the tools.four things are constantly raised when talking about whats lacking. size&strength. aggression, pace, and lack of ball winning ability.

If we are being serious about picking players on merit then Lloyd should play in front of him.Cant say Miles because he has not played.
 

prodigy

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the fact of the matter is, Ellis does not get enough ball, he never has in his career. So saying that if he did get enough ball he would be criticized anyway would assume that there is some conspiracy against Ellis and that he has been treated unfairly. This is untrue, the fact is he has been gifted games, he has shown glimpses, but overall been looked after big time by the coaches .
TigerImposter Please take note of a post addressing the points made and also providing counter points.
This is how a discussion works.


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TigerImposter

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Well, I have read the entire thread and it seems to me that RT was quoting statistics which are factual. Maybe you should address his rebuttals instead of just going the man.
In terms of minding my own business, if you want a private conversation, don’t post on a public forum.


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Well you have a literacy problem then as he wasn't addressing anything in the post you quoted us on, but making up hyperbole. Also to make things simpler for you and the rest of the gallery i will state that IF IF IF CEllis addresses the issues mentioned on here by multiple posters then we may have a serviceable player and we were right in the end. I think a poster is playing the man when he dreams up stats on a bloke then accuses posters of them being still critical and then somebody playing the devil's advocate comes on in his support and claims he read thread.
 
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TigerImposter

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TigerImposter Please take note of a post addressing the points made and also providing counter points.
This is how a discussion works.


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Please take note that this is the post we were referring to and where your literacy skills failed you.

RT: Ellis could have a season where he averaged 25 disposals & 5 tackles a game and kicked 15 goals for the season while finishing top 10 in the B&F and there would still be those questioning his spot.
 
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prodigy

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Well you have a literacy problem then as he wasn't addressing anything in the post you quoted us on, but making up hyperbole. Also to make things simpler for you and the rest of the gallery i will state that IF IF IF CEllis addresses the issues mentioned on here by multiple posters then we may have a serviceable player and we were right in the end. I think a poster is playing the man when he dreams up stats on a bloke the accuses posters of them being still critical and then somebody playing the devil's advocate comes on in his support he claims he read thread.
You can’t really dream up tackle stats. If they are there, they are there. Just because you didn’t see them when you were there doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I don’t think anyone is saying he doesn’t have any issues that he needs to rectify, because he does.
However, when people continue to knock an aspect of his game that he has improved on/put work into it becomes unfair and unwarranted.


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prodigy

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Please make not that this is the post we were referring to and where your literacy skills failed you.

RT: Ellis could have a season where he averaged 25 disposals & 5 tackles a game and kicked 15 goals for the season while finishing top 10 in the B&F and there would still be those questioning his spot.
It bothers me that you can’t see the facetious nature of that post.
It was said in jest. Goodness.


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prodigy

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Well why were you wasting my time then with verbal diarrhea you little troll?
I’m not a troll. Furthest thing from it actually.
I was encouraging you to address the points that RT made in the post you had quoted when I first replied to one of your posts today. Instead of going the man.

I thought that would have been clear for a well learned man such as yourself?


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TigerImposter

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You can’t really dream up tackle stats. If they are there, they are there. Just because you didn’t see them when you were there doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I don’t think anyone is saying he doesn’t have any issues that he needs to rectify, because he does.
However, when people continue to knock an aspect of his game that he has improved on/put work into it becomes unfair and unwarranted.


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The thing is has he really improved so that he warrants a spot in the best 22 is more the discussion not the stats that were made up by the poster. Again you've missed the point.
 

TigerImposter

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I’m not a troll. Furthest thing from it actually.
I was encouraging you to address the points that RT made in the post you had quoted when I first replied to one of your posts today. Instead of going the man.

I thought that would have been clear for a well learned man such as yourself?


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Again you missed the point as he made up hyperbole and he went the man .As i said myob especially if you have literacy issues and can't read or follow a simple conversation.
 

prodigy

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The thing is has he really improved so that he warrants a spot in the best 22 is more the discussion not the stats that were made up by the poster. Again you've missed the point.
The jury is still out in regards to whether he deserves a best 22 spot for round 1. Personally, I think what he provides offensively is worth its weight in gold on the proviso that he gets a bit more involved.
I think his defensive mindset is there, and I can forgive a couple of lack lustre efforts in JLT.

Jack Riewoldt spoke highly of CEllis in his post game TV interview where he said he is a strong chance for round 1.


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prodigy

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Again you missed the point as he made up hyperbole and he went the man .As i said myob especially if you have literacy issues and can't read or follow a simple conversation.
Why do you continue to go the man in your posts? It’s very unbecoming.


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TigerImposter

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The jury is still out in regards to whether he deserves a best 22 spot for round 1. Personally, I think what he provides offensively is worth its weight in gold on the proviso that he gets a bit more involved.
I think his defensive mindset is there, and I can forgive a couple of lack lustre efforts in JLT.

Jack Riewoldt spoke highly of CEllis in his post game TV interview where he said he is a strong chance for round 1.


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So Jack picks the team now? There are about five others who could play round one.
 

Morro

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People saying he doesnt get enough of it are spot on, but in half a game he had 12 touches and 4 tackles (i think)

Assuming his fitness is up, that should, in theory translate to a 20 touch game and maybe a few more tackles. That is a great sign and shows really solid progression. He hasnt made it, but all we can ask for is improvement, and thus far, in a small sample of 2 games, he is doing just that.

I havent rated him previously, but his last 2 games have given me confidence that we have a player who is simply just a slow developer.
 

TigerImposter

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I was just saying what Jack said. He is a VC of this club and would be aware of who is in the frame for round 1.


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Big deal as it’s obvious he will say something positive about any of his teammates especially regarding kids on the fringe of selection. We bat so deep that there are a few blokes he could have said the same thing about. The reality is it’s just talk and he doesn’t pick the team.
 

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for the limited amount of game time he had i thought he did reasonably well.

with another pre season under his belt now i would have liked to have seen his impact / performance over the course of around 70% game time instead of something in the 40's.

one thing i think we need to keep in mind is we already have some very very good ball winners in our side, its a pretty decent midfield. so we don't really need him to be getting 25+ touches a game.

we just need him to be damaging when he does get the ball. i think his decision making with the ball is fairly sound. has a lot of good releasing handballs to players in space, but i would like to see him kick it more.

what i like most about him though is how clean he is with picking the ball up. even in the JLT game against norf he had a shocking ball kicked into him deep in the forward line, picked it up clean on the half volley under pressure, dished off the handball and we goaled (i think that was him? lol)
 
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