Player Watch #32 - Corey Ellis

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Nice little bullet pass to castagna in the forward pocket while tucked up on the boundary line that resulted in a goal class as one?

Genuine question by the way
I was gonna point out this one ;)

I think the comparisons to players from other teams at "similar stages in their careers" is unfair too. It takes a lot more than stats to make comparisons relevant in trying to evaluate the worth of a player. For one, playing in Carlton or Brisbane is going to be a completely different experience for the exact same player. All teams move the ball differently, have different balance of quality mids, backs, forwards, etc around the player. With the class that is around Ellis in the team it's going to be hard for him to accumulate large numbers I think. We know he can dominate a game in the VFL as we saw him last year towards the end of the season. He definitely has the skills and capabilities - we have seen that at both AFL and VFL level. He made a couple of fantastic passes and movements in passages of play as mentioned above.

I agree at times he can look timid or less ferocious then some of his contemporaries - but that's a confidence issue (as we've seen him play with more gusto and fire in VFL). He doesn't need to be a bull like Dustin Martin, he doesn't need to be a bonafide Spanish football superstar running the ball from end to end and scoring from outside the penalty box (see Butler), he doesn't need to take high flying pack marks like Jack Riewoldt. I reckon we can afford to have him getting around 15-20 disposals at this stage as we have a pretty stable and confident team who play well together. Give him a run of games to build some confidence, as long as he can contribute for the next 2-3 weeks to at a minimum the same level he did against Carlton and improve on that, give him a couple more.

We saw last year what a difference confidence can make to a player and a team, and I don't think we're a weak team that can't fit a player of his output into the balance.
 

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I have no problem with expecting quality over quantity but I feel like there is an expectation that if he has 12 touches that all of them need to be 40m bullets to a leading forward to be classed as dangerous.

But realistically those dangerous possessions don't happen all that often for the entire game, let alone expecting 1 bloke to have 12 of them


I fully agree quality over quantity but I feel like the expectation level of the quality for each disposal is a bit too high.
It’s not too high bc atm it’s completely lopsided to lack of quality as well as a lack of quantity . As I said in the jlt Game he needs to work harder in the gym and develop in the seconds. Even in the twos he still goes through large phases where he disappears. He also needs to work on improving his speed and there are many websites showing this by professionals. A mate of mine took note of these sites and it was incredible what an increase in a couple of yards did to his game. I’m sure the club have the pros onto it, but we ain’t seeing the fruits of it atm.
I also see a lack of quality in his game with his intensity and this comes about again due to his lack of strength. Really he’s undersized for a fourth year player and this is why his game at the top notch level is lacking both quality and quantity.
 

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People talking about that play where Grimes ran past him, what people likely didn’t see were the three efforts he had prior to that taking place.

In terms of impact of his possessions, he had one direct goal assist and another passage where he started in the back 50, hand balled off to a team mate, ran to the wing, got the ball back and kicked a 40 metre pass to Dusty’s advantage who then got it to Jack for another goal.

That’s the type of impact he can have on a game. He needs to work on getting in the same positions more often, that’s for sure.

While I was at the game, I had a Richmond fan behind me, and he was glowing of the way Ellis was going about it on the night. Now I know that doesn’t mean much, but I sit in front of this guy every week and he can be very critical of a lot of our players so he isn’t the ultra positive type of fan.

It’s all about perspective though, and team selection will be interesting again on Wednesday. I think he will get dropped, but I thought he was serviceable and better than some of our premiership stars on the day.


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Grimes only got it 6 times and 2 tackles yet i would think Damo would be pleased enough with his and CEllis's 12/4 game as both we given defensive/negating roles with spoiling, guarding dangerous space and cluttering up little smart sneaks like murphy running forward as priorities. both did their jobs ok.
 
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As I told you weeks ago It’s not about quantity, but quality. Also as you said earlier he’s developing his physicality and game which should be done in the Seconds and not at the expense of our Seniors. He still plays timid with uncertainty which means he’s out of his depth.
If it's about quality over quantity why get upset when I mentioned that Miles' disposals don't hurt despite him getting plenty of the ball. We have 4 premiership players out of the side at present, we need to pick someone to fill those spots and we've gone with 3 unproven types to give them opportunity. If they don't step up they'll find themselves back in the VFL soon enough. If they do maintain their spots when the others come back then that can only be a good thing as it means our depth has improved again
 

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So the actual play was a ball up in the middle after Butler Banana goal in the second, CEllis lays a tackle in the middle gets up and then sprints after Cripps who picked up the loose ball and kicks kicks into forward 50, rance spoils grimes chases the ball to HF and kicks it off the ground to centre of the wing. Corey has worked back to HBF and is running across the line of ball on a 45 degree angle and has to turn to give chase whereas grimes was running full pelt the direction he kicked the ball, he then ran off past Corey who sagged back onto Silvaghni Grimes's man, Carlton picked up the loose ball and booted it back into forward 50.

He would have needed 3-4m long arms to pick up the loose ball
The point is,He chose not to go for that 2nd effort.All it would have taken was a 10mtr sprint(not even a sprint if Grimes could see Ellis was between him & the ball) to the ball knowing that Grimes would have held his opponent back.
 

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A question that i keep asking is what does playing this bloke in front of others who have literally torn the door down do for club morale and those players morale.Its one sure way to sow seeds of discontent.

Surely its better for the team to have players in it who will make a bigger contribution.
It makes sense to have him play in the twos to develop and reward those who have actually done the hard yards with games.

People carrying on about his role or roles in the team and use it as an excuse for what is quite simply poor performances.
people need to ask the simple question are there better options on the list to perform those roles atm?? I think just about everyone would agree there are numerous better options for every role that Cory performs atm.

People talk as if its shameful to have a player Develop in the two's. In this case it is clearly the place Corey needs to develop and theres nothing wrong with that.
 
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It’s not too high bc atm it’s completely lopsided to lack of quality as well as a lack of quantity . As I said in the jlt Game he needs to work harder in the gym and develop in the seconds. Even in the twos he still goes through large phases where he disappears. He also needs to work on improving his speed and there are many websites showing this by professionals. A mate of mine took note of these sites and it was incredible what an increase in a couple of yards did to his game. I’m sure the club have the pros onto it, but we ain’t seeing the fruits of it atm.
I also see a lack of quality in his game with his intensity and this comes about again due to his lack of strength. Really he’s undersized for a fourth year player and this is why his game at the top notch level is lacking both quality and quantity.
But how many elite dangerous possessions are you expecting him to have each match and more importantly what are you classing as dangerous?

2 have already been mentioned that resulted in goals, that'
Not bad IMO. If everyone averaged 2 goal assists per game we would be laughing.

Agree he needs to maybe find an extra yard of pace to really get himself into more space.
 

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A question that i keep asking is what does playing this bloke in front of others who have literally torn the door down do for club morale and those players morale.Its one sure way to sow seeds of discontent.

Surely its better for the team to have players in it who will make a bigger contribution.
It makes sense to have him play in the twos to develop and reward those who have actually done the hard yards with games.

People carrying on about his role or roles in the team and use it as an excuse for what is quite simply poor performances.
people need to ask the simple question are there better options on the list to perform those roles atm?? I think just about everyone would agree there are numerous better options for every role that Cory performs atm.

People talk as if its shameful to have a player Develop in the two's. In this case it is clearly the place Corey needs to develop and theres nothing wrong with that.
I think the main point in dispute is that some believe that CEllis earned his call up to round 1, whereas others believe he didn’t.


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The point is,He chose not to go for that 2nd effort.All it would have taken was a 10mtr sprint(not even a sprint if Grimes could see Ellis was between him & the ball) to the ball knowing that Grimes would have held his opponent back.
wow if your going hard on ellis for this youd better check out shai's game in the scheme of things that would make hardwick cringe..... then check out grigg, lambert, vlossy and even dusty where they should have went a bit harder.
 

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The point is,He chose not to go for that 2nd effort.All it would have taken was a 10mtr sprint(not even a sprint if Grimes could see Ellis was between him & the ball) to the ball knowing that Grimes would have held his opponent back.
Lets just recap that passage of play.

Ellis is at the centre bounce where he lays a tackle(first effort) gets up and chases after Cripps(second effort), then runs from inside the square to a contest near the HBF (third effort) and is expected to sprint after a ball that Grimes kicks past him, and is criticised for not making a 2nd effort????????
 

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wow if your going hard on ellis for this youd better check out shai's game in the scheme of things that would make hardwick cringe..... then check out grigg, lambert, vlossy and even dusty where they should have went a bit harder.
Seriously?
Your questioning someone like Lamberts attitude?
 

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Nice little bullet pass to castagna in the forward pocket while tucked up on the boundary line that resulted in a goal class as one?

Genuine question by the way
Which is why we all log in every weekend and hail that one piece of play where CEllis was good.
And that's what it is ... 'one'.
I look forward to 2022 when we are hailing two bits of good play per week.
 

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Once again Ellis doesn't have to be a prime mover or a star. Right now all he has to do is play his role and on Thursday night, that is what he did. He got his dozen or so disposals, laid tackles, linked up in play and put on defensive pressure. The way you and TI post it's like he needs to be a game breaker or he needs to do something that makes the crowd stand up and applaud. This is what I don't agree with regards the constant talking down of him.

Oh and BTW, I have never claimed he is some tackling master, I have talked about his improvement in that area of his game, from averaging 2-3 tackles a game in the VFL in his first 2 years to averaging 6 tackles a game last year and I have said that he needs to bring that sort of effort to the AFL as well. What I find strange that a kid who is labelled as being timid increases his tackling numbers by double and it is still not considered a step in the right direction, which is why I asked what it is that you guys want from him and by your explanation above it is that the kid should be some sort of star, rather than a role player in a premiership winning line up.

To me that is unrealistic and having that sort of expectation put on him is always going to lead you and TI to talking him down unless he does star.
Put down your stats sheet for a minute ... when did CEllis lay that bone-jarring tackle we all remember; or genuinely stopped someone dead in their tracks???? No one has ever presented he doesn't tackle, he's just not any damn good at it.
 

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Which is why we all log in every weekend and hail that one piece of play where CEllis was good.
And that's what it is ... 'one'.
I look forward to 2022 when we are hailing two bits of good play per week.
Well, 2022 has come early because he had two...


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Lets just recap that passage of play.

Ellis is at the centre bounce where he lays a tackle(first effort) gets up and chases after Cripps(second effort), then runs from inside the square to a contest near the HBF (third effort) and is expected to sprint after a ball that Grimes kicks past him, and is criticised for not making a 2nd effort????????
Thats the old Richmond.Done enough that will do.
 

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Thats the old Richmond.Done enough that will do.
You’re back tracking now though. You claimed he couldn’t make a second effort, but it’s been proven, he actually had three or four efforts in the passage of play.
Is that not good enough?


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A question that i keep asking is what does playing this bloke in front of others who have literally torn the door down do for club morale and those players morale.Its one sure way to sow seeds of discontent.

Surely its better for the team to have players in it who will make a bigger contribution.
It makes sense to have him play in the twos to develop and reward those who have actually done the hard yards with games.

People carrying on about his role or roles in the team and use it as an excuse for what is quite simply poor performances.
people need to ask the simple question are there better options on the list to perform those roles atm?? I think just about everyone would agree there are numerous better options for every role that Cory performs atm.

People talk as if its shameful to have a player Develop in the two's. In this case it is clearly the place Corey needs to develop and theres nothing wrong with that.
Agree.
Imagine looking blokes like Miles and Lloyd in the eye every week when they're busting a gut and here we are gifting games to an inferior bloke!
Almost like the club is digging as deep for excuses as some on here.
 

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Seriously?
Your questioning someone like Lamberts attitude?
Did you see his first half, ran around and didnt get near it....obviously credits in the bank and all that. Im just mentioning when your side is 5 goals down and you hadnt had a touch or a tackle, maybe get amongst it a bit more which he did..... so yes, if your gunna pot corey be fair about it.
 

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Agree.
Imagine looking blokes like Miles and Lloyd in the eye every week when they're busting a gut and here we are gifting games to an inferior bloke!
Almost like the club is digging as deep for excuses as some on here.
Surely you can’t think a professional organisation that just won the premiership would conduct themselves like that?
Is there any chance that you might consider that you’re actually off the mark on this one?



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A question that i keep asking is what does playing this bloke in front of others who have literally torn the door down do for club morale and those players morale.Its one sure way to sow seeds of discontent.

Surely its better for the team to have players in it who will make a bigger contribution.
It makes sense to have him play in the twos to develop and reward those who have actually done the hard yards with games.

People carrying on about his role or roles in the team and use it as an excuse for what is quite simply poor performances.
people need to ask the simple question are there better options on the list to perform those roles atm?? I think just about everyone would agree there are numerous better options for every role that Cory performs atm.

People talk as if its shameful to have a player Develop in the two's. In this case it is clearly the place Corey needs to develop and theres nothing wrong with that.
Who are the numerous better options that can play HF/HB/Wing/On Ball which are the 4 roles that Ellis has played across the JLT games and round 1?

Miles is an inside midfielder who can kick goals when forward, but has never played wing or HB that I know of.

Lloyd is a forward who can pinch hit on ball, but again has not played HB or wing.

Higgins is a first year kid who has done well in his 2 VFL practice matches but he'd be cooked by half time in the AFL

Menadue isn't an inside midfielder

Markov is a HBF/winger

Naish is a skinny outside type in his first season

So who else would you suggest play ahead of Ellis?
 
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