Autopsy 32 pt loss to Melbourne

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Redgum

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Oct 5, 2004
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The real engine room in our team for making things happen is Fyfe and Barlow, two huge big guys ,grunt in the midfield. Both ball magnets, sure Neale gets a lot of it but he is a midget and disposal is questionable, he doesn't really inspire the team with any real on field leadership in the way he plays, just gets a lot of the ball, a lot of players do that too.. As soon as Barlow wasn't in the team tonight ,I knew we were history. Mundy in hindsight should not have been made captain, he plays really good when the other two are there but he is no leader out there on the field, his form and effectiveness has really dropped off. Barlow must be signed up next year, he is good for a few more years and with Fyfe back next year our midfield and clearances will be back.
 

electricfeel

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What I can't stand is when we rebound and have forwards who are running away from the player with the ball instead of leading toward them. Of course this is due to Lyons tactics of flooding defence. It's low percentage to hit a target running away from you and difficult to mark over your shoulder. The result is usually spilling to the deck and the threat is then quelled by the opposition defence.

We are playing exactly the same way as we did at the start of the season. There has been no improvement in our game-plan whatsoever. It stinks.

Thought Nick Suban did well when he had the ball. Yes he only had 9 possessions but hopefully in a few years he will mature into a regular 20+ a game player.
I thought Suban had one of his better games for us tonight. Surprised he only had 9 disposals? That being said the whole "maturing" thing is probs a bit too late now given he's 26 and been in the system for a long time now. I'd keep him on for depth but he really shouldn't be playing this many games in the future once we get our players back from injury next year. He's better than a few of our other plodders but we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here...
 
Apr 14, 2008
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We are in deep sh@t. RTB dropped both Clarke and Hannah after there average displays V pies. Griff got pantsed by Gawn so where does this leave us. Sat thru the cold and rain at MCG v Pies to witness a non effort. Thought after the bye and a rev up they would put in a better effort but alas they picked up where they left off 2.wks ago.

Pearce, Suban, Ibbo, Dawson ,Weller, balla tucker were poor. Agree with previous comments Stevie H needs to be played in the midfield. The next 7 games are going to be brutal because I think a large number of players are out to protect their individual arses -.self preservation. RBT is pedalling the chance of a return to finals action in 2017 with Fyfe Sandi johnno Alex & Bennell back in the 22. Very questionable at the moment.
Weonly have one elite ruck and are in real trouble when Sandi is gone. But Gawn is a top 3 ruck this year with Goldstein and Nic Nat. Griffin was always going to struggle.
 

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I thought Suban had one of his better games for us tonight. Surprised he only had 9 disposals? That being said the whole "maturing" thing is probs a bit too late now given he's 26 and been in the system for a long time now. I'd keep him on for depth but he really shouldn't be playing this many games in the future once we get our players back from injury next year. He's better than a few of our other plodders but we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here...

I was being sarcastic. He did actually do a few good things but it would be a good game for a 19 year old. At his age he should be more influential regularly.
 
it would have been madness if we had continued with that style of footy, it didn't work for us in finals.

we have only won 1 out of 4 finals games in the last 2 years, falling over the line in home and away games is meaningless if we collapse in September.
I would argue whatever the hell we are trying to do now would be the madness approach. Abandoning our defensive mechanisms in the interest of the kick and draw Hawthorn method has directly resulted in the mess we find ourselves in.

I see alot of our manic pressure in what the top of the table teams are running this year, with counter punch footy on turnover which was also a staple of our 2012/13 style. I think we traded too heavily on stoppages the past two years due to Fyfe's rising powers and our over reliance on Sandilands' dominance to facilitate that. A fair bit of personnel mismanagement came into the equation too. Lukey Mac was mismanaged the entirety of Lyon's time with us, MJ as well the past two years. Fyfe last year was played when he really should have been put on ice (no matter the ramifications for our campaign) before what I am led to believe was a pre-existing hairline became a full fracture.

You refer to 1 win in 4 finals the past two years. On face value yes it's not great, but surely you need to look a little deeper. 2014 we had a narrow loss to Sydney at the SCG, definitely no shame in that, and then against Port we were overrun by a rampant, breakout Port who had an incredible self belief that year that they could run over the top of anybody. Don't forget a couple of dodgy frees for Hawthorn in that prelim and they would have made the GF. Last year there were issues from the midway point of the season, we all know that. Still, we pushed Hawthorn pretty damn close until those two shocking clangers (Mzungu to Sheridan, and I think there was another one involving maybe Ibbo and Pearce?) which broke our backs, and we had a severely hampered Fyfe who may have been the difference fully fit. We make the GF last year and why the hell would you change your game style? 27 points is hardly reason to change your entire gameplan. Just as a 15 point loss in a GF is hardly a game style that will never win flags.

Some things had to change as the game changes, we all know these things morph and evolve, however I defy anybody on here to actually explain what we have changed for the better from what we are seeing put out on the field. If somebody can actually explain where our defence has gone to complete s**t and how that makes us better and why we are barely able to link a passage of play together offensively most weeks? I might be able to find peace with the changes if I can understand the direction we are heading.

TL;DR
In an effort to beat Hawthorn we have completely lost the ability to beat just about everyone. We pushed an aging side too hard too close to the finals and it cost us our match winners at the wrong time of the year, particularly 2014/15. We have tried to become Hawthorn and failed. What was wrong with being a Ross Lyon coached side? Ross delegated and tried to change and it has left us in a massive hole and in purgatory. Can't go back to the old style but the new approach is failing miserably.

I'm not sure I buy the well trodden narrative, however I respect your view.
 
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electricfeel

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I was being sarcastic. He did actually do a few good things but it would be a good game for a 19 year old. At his age he should be more influential regularly.
Ah sorry I missed the sarcasm. Yes, i think I wrote somewhere in the game day thread that Suban was channelling his 2009-self! Hes never been consistent and never will be. Unfortunately with the state of our list and our injuries we have no other choice at the moment.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I reckon if you put Tabs in the Hawks side he becomes a 40 goal+ season player.
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.
.
I reckon if you put Pavlich in the Hawks side he becomes a 80 goal+ season player.


Our forward structure and delivery inside 50 is deplorable.
It's pathetic isn't it. Tabs got 7 marks for it tonight, which is impressive. Imagine if Pavlich gets out of his way as well as the kicks hit him like they were for Hogan tonight. He can easily get 10+ marks. It's time and time again that the midfield ignore Tabs 1-on-1s and leads to hit up Pav who is grappling with 2 sometimes 3 defenders! Frustrating thing is that Tabs is only on 15 goals for the season, when in any other team he would be on 25 or more easily. He has been a lot better then the goals suggest anyway.
 

Ressies runner

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Melbourne outplayed and out pressured us over 4 quarters.They have clearly turned things around under Roos.

Ressies runner continued his imbecile narrative about the club's champion who kicked 3 amongst a generally shambolic team effort.
To little to late, and he cost us another 2 goals in case you weren't watching. Game was gone when pav awoke from his granny nap, but i forgive you your definitely a one eyed supporter
 
Jul 5, 2011
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Some things had to change as the game changes, we all know these things morph and evolve, however I defy anybody on here to actually explain what we have changed for the better from what we are seeing put out on the field.

Good post, I don't think any of us know what the new game plan has been this year, the skills have been so poor that we turn it over before even having a chance to implement any semblance of a game plan.
 

scon

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To little to late, and he cost us another 2 goals in case you weren't watching. Game was gone when pav awoke from his granny nap, but i forgive you your definitely a one eyed supporter
No worries Drongo.
I've already said you'll continue your imbecile narrative.
Talking tripe suits you well.
 

Ressies runner

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Good post, I don't think any of us know what the new game plan has been this year, the skills have been so poor that we turn it over before even having a chance to implement any semblance of a game plan.
I damn hope its tanking, or rosco plying his tank strategies, because if its not were in for a world of pain over the next few years
 

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What I can't stand is when we rebound and have forwards who are running away from the player with the ball instead of leading toward them. Of course this is due to Lyons tactics of flooding defence. It's low percentage to hit a target running away from you and difficult to mark over your shoulder. The result is usually spilling to the deck and the threat is then quelled by the opposition defence.

We are playing exactly the same way as we did at the start of the season. There has been no improvement in our game-plan whatsoever. It stinks.

Thought Nick Suban did well when he had the ball. Yes he only had 9 possessions but hopefully in a few years he will mature into a regular 20+ a game player.

Lol. He's 25 now. He's never getting a regular 20+
 
Jul 18, 2010
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We just dont seem to have any structure. No forward structures. No defensive structure. Always seem to be in a state of mild panic, resulting in hurried disposals, inevitably to someone already under pressure. There was a passage in the 3rd where we had 3 consecutive handballs to players under pressure that looked like something out of a juniors game......"To hot. Have to get rid of it!"
I feel for our forwards. Only occasionally is there any type of decent entry (yay Suban!), the rest are wild kicks in and hope someone marks it or crumbs it.
Disappointing really :(
 

aussieviking

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Oct 10, 2008
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I thought Suban had one of his better games for us tonight. Surprised he only had 9 disposals? That being said the whole "maturing" thing is probs a bit too late now given he's 26 and been in the system for a long time now. I'd keep him on for depth but he really shouldn't be playing this many games in the future once we get our players back from injury next year. He's better than a few of our other plodders but we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here...

When Suban gets the ball he does good things but he just never gets it enough
 

aussieviking

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We just dont seem to have any structure. No forward structures. No defensive structure. Always seem to be in a state of mild panic, resulting in hurried disposals, inevitably to someone already under pressure. There was a passage in the 3rd where we had 3 consecutive handballs to players under pressure that looked like something out of a juniors game......"To hot. Have to get rid of it!"
I feel for our forwards. Only occasionally is there any type of decent entry (yay Suban!), the rest are wild kicks in and hope someone marks it or crumbs it.
Disappointing really :(

I agree There doesn't seem to be any game plan at the moment.
 

meima

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Freo actually playing a lot like mark harvey and chris scott ( as freo assistant coach) era in 2016.
 
Mar 2, 2010
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What frustrated me the most was our forward 50 being made up of Pav and Tabs only and they arent the most agile blokes around. They both would compete for the mark but the ball would spill out and Melbourne waltz away with it.

When we played some decent footy a few weeks ago, Mayne Ballas and Weller were at the contest and snagged a few.

Is that a fitness thing or a new forward structure?

Either way it sucks and needs to be fixed ASAP.
 

Bicco

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What frustrated me the most was our forward 50 being made up of Pav and Tabs only and they arent the most agile blokes around. They both would compete for the mark but the ball would spill out and Melbourne waltz away with it.

When we played some decent footy a few weeks ago, Mayne Ballas and Weller were at the contest and snagged a few.

Is that a fitness thing or a new forward structure?

Either way it sucks and needs to be fixed ASAP.
Also what's happened the last two weeks is the rebound from our F50. Both teams have regularly had shots on goal after regaining possession in our F50. Our defensive forwards (Ballas and Mayne) may be trying, but are ineffective. Our mids are getting smashed and applying no pressure. This the puts massive pressure on the KPFs. No defender in the land can defend fast moving, accurate ball use. Which Melb and Coll had in their first halves. It makes Dawson and Collins look really bad.
To make matters worse, if the opposition miss their shot on goal, we then have Hill, Sutcliffe, Sherro and Spurr ( throw in D Pearce) butchering the ball out of D50 to either cause another F50 entry for the opposition or a laboured/hacked F50 entry for us which results in my first point.
We are awful everywhere at the moment and this season is turning into the biggest challenge of Ross's career.
 

wayToGo_

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I don't think it was just about pressure. We just didn't win enough of the ball and even when we did we didn't use it effectively. Melbourne had 11 players with 6 or more score involvements. We had just one (Mayne).

In terms of pressure acts, we had heaps more than Melbourne but we had to because they had the ball most of the time. Mayne racked up a massive 32, Tucker was next with 24, Neale 23, Suban 23. The Demons had only one person over 20 (Vandenberg with 23) but they didn't need to apply much pressure because we turned it over so often under minimal pressure.

They beat us across the ground just like Collingwood did last game. Our midfield was the problem then and was the same again last night. Pretty hard for both our defenders and forwards to do much. I actually thought our defenders did well considering.
 

rgauci

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We have no target coming out of defensive 50. Transitioning the ball out of defensive 50 can rarely occur without a contest. We lose the contest far too often. Our two best contested marks Fyfe and Sandilands are missing. Pav has never been the get out of jail kick. It's simple we are relying on Griffin and Taberner in the role of Fyfe and Sandilands. They are actually doing ok. Next year we'll have one wing with Fyfe and Sandi and the other with Griffin and Tabs; where will the opposition congregate on?
 

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