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Player Watch #32 Samson Ryan

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Harrison Bergeron said:
Would drop Nankervis first.
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Nakkers just needs to fxxk off from the BL as he costs us goals bc he panics and also gets in our defenders way. Ryan would struggle in the VFL now he's that exhausted and shot in confidence.
 
Gez honestly people relax remember Gawn his first couple years people never rated him and I'm not saying he will be in the same quality, but give him time and experience covered the ruck role first half of the year by himself.
 
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db26 said:
Gez honestly people relax remember Gawn his first coupe years people never rated him and I'm not saying he will be in the same quality, but give him time and experience covered the ruck role first half of the year by himself.
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We know he’s a long term proposition, but he has lots of things that need addressing in his game and it should be done in the vfl.
 
tiger_tough said:
Nankervis had 1 poor game along with every single one of his team mates. He's been great since returning. Does seem to struggle against Lions for some reason though.
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He was awful first game back against Essendon and shouldn’t have played as he was lacking match fitness. I reckon Thursday he had the Flu as he looked way off.
 
TigerImposter said:
Hi RockJobster0312

Probably our most valuable future tall player and I think the MC are doing him a terrible disservice by constantly playing him.
You continue to play kids with developmental issues in the AFL if they're actually improving them. With Ryan he's actually gone backwards since his last decent game about 6 weeks ago. His confidence is now becoming shot as his body language and facial expressions show negative signs as he's continually rag dolled by bigger rucks. He's now even getting out marked by smaller guys and just becoming a replay of what happened to JC when continually gifted games and not sent to the VFL to work on his deficiencies and hence regain belief and confidence.
Players with major flaws in their games need to go back to the VFL to correct them. Failing to do this means they will become JC and drift into football extinction.
With Ryan we are actually harming him by playing him now as he has massive flaws in his game being physically underdeveloped he's now looking fatigued and his flaws are more and more obvious. In the game day thread posters were implying he's NGTMI and they could be right if he doesn't correct his leg and arm strength for positioning, balance and holding out opponents. He falls over too often and drops marks like leaves off an apple tree in the Autumn.
The VFL is designed for development and confidence building and mostly to eliminate obvious flaws in players when they get there. Failing to do this kills them off or if they can't rectify them they die off anyhow.
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Some really good points there TI. Well argued and well articulated. For me it’s an interesting conversation as I said in the Bauer thread as I think there’s a few moving parts and it comes down to strategies in player development. Your post was one of those posts that made me actually stop and think through it before responding.

There’s nothing in your post that I find hard to disagree with, so maybe I’ll just state my views and we can go from there.

I suspect any points of difference will come down to the timing of a decision, not necessarily the decision itself.

I think a key part of a young players development - especially for KPP - is how to fight through periods where their impact on games is low. Obviously with KPP players, a portion of their impact is driven by others. Hard as a forward to have much impact when the ball movement up forward is shizen as an example. Players need to find ways to fight through these periods, and others avenues to impact games.

Obviously there comes a time where team needs win out and/ or a players confidence is so low that it’s detrimental to a players development. Whilst I agree with you that his confidence doesn’t look to be resoundingly high, I’m reluctant to go that extra step to say that it’s detrimental just yet.

I also think in terms of his development there has to be an element of whether long term it is as a ruck/ forward (my view personally) or forward/ ruck. If it’s the former, he’s statistically one of the better backup rucks in the game, and where he can have a real impact regardless of how he is faring up forward. That said, Brisbane did get very physical with him and that blunted his impact on Thursday night. If it’s the latter, then it certainly is a different conversation.

If it’s a ruck/ forward maybe that gives Ryan more leeway to play through down periods than if his future is as a forward/ ruck.
I also would like to think there’s a collective consideration of development of other forwards and rucks; Biggy, Bradtke, Bauer and Miller. Yes some of those won’t make it, but that shouldn’t stop the club trying to find the best way to develop these guys whilst on the list.

Lastly, I’ve said it before that the VFL shouldn’t be seen as a ‘dirty word’. Use it well it will help a players development. In that I agree with you. The issue I have with the VFL in terms of development is that the KPP stocks are so low league wide that I often wonder if it impedes development in KPP players. Can’t argue with that however that it should improve a players confidence.

I find it an interesting conversation because to me it comes down to multiple factors, and as you say Ryan (and maybe Gibcus) represent our best long term tall player. How we develop him is potentially more forensic than what we would generally give a player.
 
Yeah thanks for the excellent post RockJobster0312 and you’re a bit like me with a lot of uncertainties with him at this stage , especially relating to development and major position best suited in the future.
I think I’ve been saying for over a month he needed a rest bc he looked fatigued, but we carried him to the bye and the game before the bye he was subbed early at HT. This then meant he had a long extended rest. He then played after the bye on Thursday and from his early CB encounters he was caught out of position and rucking with almost his arms in a bird in flight position. So I’m saying it’s not fatigue, but more technical issues bc of confidence dropping now.
It’s strange bc he looked technically sound in this area ten weeks ago. He’s also getting pushed around more and again I thought he’d also improved here , but it’s like he’s gone to back where he was in the preseason. This is why I’m thinking it’s more now a confidence thing over lack of skill. We know he’s physically under developed still and his balance and marking need attention which will hopefully improve as he gets stronger all over. However, I think he now needs to go to the VFL as I believe if his confidence builds playing on inferior opponents of what he’s been up against , his natural game will come back again . Also I think coaches give them that extra attention in the VFL game’s spending more time addressing technical issues as they arise.
In an AFL game you do get the attention ,but it’s probably more rushed due to the heat of the moment and pace of the game as it’s more result driven rather than developing the player. I think nowadays it’s more like you need to be better prepared at AFL rather than learning to grow in the role(s) on the big stage. So at this stage if it’s a confidence issue then a couple of VFL games should get him back to where he was. My experience with young physically immature taller players it’s better they grow their game at VFL rather than letting it stagnate in the AFL. When Young got dropped and he went back to the VFL he regained his confidence in a week and has looked outstanding since as he’s actually developing slowly and looking more confident. His game has benefited from that time in the VFL and getting the extra attention working on some tweaks that needed to be addressed. I think it could be more simpler than we’re probably thinking.
I still think atm he’s more of a Ruck/KPF only bc his marking is not up to standard and he seems to just jog around the ground to save energy. I think the demands of working and running hard both ways as a true KP forward are just not in his motor or physique yet. So it’s still not a set in concrete until he reaches full physical maturity.
 
TigerImposter said:
Yeah thanks for the excellent post RockJobster0312 and you’re a bit like me with a lot of uncertainties with him at this stage , especially relating to development and major position best suited in the future.
I think I’ve been saying for over a month he needed a rest bc he looked fatigued, but we carried him to the bye and the game before the bye he was subbed early at HT. This then meant he had a long extended rest. He then played after the bye on Thursday and from his early CB encounters he was caught out of position and rucking with almost his arms in a bird in flight position. So I’m saying it’s not fatigue, but more technical issues bc of confidence dropping now.
It’s strange bc he looked technically sound in this area ten weeks ago. He’s also getting pushed around more and again I thought he’d also improved here , but it’s like he’s gone to back where he was in the preseason. This is why I’m thinking it’s more now a confidence thing over lack of skill. We know he’s physically under developed still and his balance and marking need attention which will hopefully improve as he gets stronger all over. However, I think he now needs to go to the VFL as I believe if his confidence builds playing on inferior opponents of what he’s been up against , his natural game will come back again . Also I think coaches give them that extra attention in the VFL game’s spending more time addressing technical issues as they arise.
In an AFL game you do get the attention ,but it’s probably more rushed due to the heat of the moment and pace of the game as it’s more result driven rather than developing the player. I think nowadays it’s more like you need to be better prepared at AFL rather than learning to grow in the role(s) on the big stage. So at this stage if it’s a confidence issue then a couple of VFL games should get him back to where he was. My experience with young physically immature taller players it’s better they grow their game at VFL rather than letting it stagnate in the AFL. When Young got dropped and he went back to the VFL he regained his confidence in a week and has looked outstanding since as he’s actually developing slowly and looking more confident. His game has benefited from that time in the VFL and getting the extra attention working on some tweaks that needed to be addressed. I think it could be more simpler than we’re probably thinking.
I still think atm he’s more of a Ruck/KPF only bc his marking is not up to standard and he seems to just jog around the ground to save energy. I think the demands of working and running hard both ways as a true KP forward are just not in his motor or physique yet. So it’s still not a set in concrete until he reaches full physical maturity.
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Again, some great points. Really respect your viewpoint on this one, well argued and well thought out.

Interesting take on the proof of a lack of confidence, something I certainly hadn’t thought on. I do wonder how much of it comes from opposition teams being both more willing and more able to put work into Ryan during the week to stop him around CB. I have noticed an increase in teams’ opposing rucks trying to get more physical earlier (almost giving Ryan a free run at the bounce) and it seems to limit his effectiveness.

Other teams putting more work into him is another reason why I’m for teams giving players who are underperforming a chance to fight through it. Teams will throw all sorts of things at good players to blunt their effectiveness, players have to learn to live with it and fight through it.

The counterpoint is your point about Tyler Young. A real good example of how the VFL can be used to make short improvements to AFL players.

It’s about finding that balance.

It’s one of those ones where I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s dropped for the Swans clash. Equally wouldn’t be shocked if he was named.

Hopefully either way Ryan gets over this little hump and continues to develop.
 
crackertiger said:
Needs to harden up and stop playing like a wet lettuce.
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I had a feeling comments like this would start dribbling out as his body language isn’t good , but we need to remember around ten weeks ago people on here wanted to throw number 12 on his back with ten year deals. I had to see what all the noise was about and although I was impressed with what I saw I still had grave reservations regarding his flaws.
Now I have been monitoring his progress and all of those flaws are still there, but with confidence shot. He’d shown some improvement, but as his block of games extended and he then started to get badly beaten , he dropped right off six games ago.
He should’ve been sent to the VFL then and I believe he would’ve come back a better player.
We don’t know what we fully have yet until he’s the full man physically so let’s be patient as tall stocks are crucial for us moving forward.
 
I'd give him a few weeks in the Magoo's to work on his deficiencies. Might get his confidence up taking a handful of marks around the ground against other kids and suburban giants. He's not oblivious he'd realise how badly his playing and marking efforts have been.

Perfect opportunity to drop Miller as well and get Biggie as backup ruck and give Bauer his opportunity against his former team. Also no way in hell he gets Richo's number 12. The greatest mark in club history to a bloke who can't buy a mark is a lousy idea.
 
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richoplzbreed said:
I'd give him a few weeks in the Magoo's to work on his deficiencies. Might get his confidence up taking a handful of marks around the ground against other kids and suburban giants. He's not oblivious he'd realise how badly his playing and marking efforts have been.

Perfect opportunity to drop Miller as well and get Biggie as backup ruck and give Bauer his opportunity against his former team. Also no way in hell he gets Richo's number 12. The greatest mark in club history to a bloke who can't buy a mark is a lousy idea.
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Biggie is not AFL standard RPB and barely VFL standard. I don’t see him being on our list next year. He’s not a newbie anymore mate as he’s fully matured with no more upside.
 
TigerImposter said:
I had a feeling comments like this would start dribbling out as his body language isn’t good , but we need to remember around ten weeks ago people on here wanted to throw number 12 on his back with ten year deals. I had to see what all the noise was about and although I was impressed with what I saw I still had grave reservations regarding his flaws.
Now I have been monitoring his progress and all of those flaws are still there, but with confidence shot. He’d shown some improvement, but as his block of games extended and he then started to get badly beaten , he dropped right off six games ago.
He should’ve been sent to the VFL then and I believe he would’ve come back a better player.
We don’t know what we fully have yet until he’s the full man physically so let’s be patient as tall stocks are crucial for us moving forward.
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Wise words, knowing the club Soldo will come in for him, unless he has fractured his foot ha

Time to focus on qualifying a couple for VFL finals, especially Ryan. Finals experience is finals experience.

Competition rules state that players must have featured in six VFL games during that particular season, and played no more than 12 AFL games, to be eligible to play in the VFL finals

Oops, he has played 14, we have faarked that too, if only we had listened to you TI
 
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tiger_tough said:
Interesting that Mini said today they see him as a 1st ruck in the future whereas Dimma always said a forward more than a ruck.

Looks much more a ruck to me.
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Definitely a first ruck for me. Will take the mantle when Nank has to retire because he got rubbed out for 5 years for sneezing on someone
 
tiger_tough said:
Interesting that Mini said today they see him as a 1st ruck in the future whereas Dimma always said a forward more than a ruck.

Looks much more a ruck to me.
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If he can’t hold a mark he’s useless as a forward and barely passes as a ruck. He’s got a long way to go the young lad.
 
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