Certified Legendary Thread 34 Essendon* Players suspended for doping violations - No opposition fans. Check OP for thread rules

If Essendon* gets slapped on the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf, I will .......


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The one and the same. While Lance is a denialist, he picks his battles and doesn't try to defend the indefensible and have a certain degree of logic to them. He has made the argument numerous times (with links to the AFL code) that under the AFL code the AFL are have sole discretion over team based penalties. Over that last 12 months I haven't seen anyone post anything concrete to show this premise is incorrect.

Hey if you go over the the HTB and post something about team penalties for EFC he is sure to respond.

Mate - I have read everything Lance has posted - and then - gave up since he broaches no criticism of anything he posts, no matter how concrete the evidence is until it become so ridiculous he is laughing stock of the board, then, simply changes his position.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in engaging him - he is TWAT who at the start of the ENTIRE SAGA made so many outrageous and ridiculous claims that I put him on ignore for a considerable time.

Claiming I should instead engage HIM in debate is frankly insulting.

Especially when I have no need to do so - I have posted the RULES to which the AFL is signed up to, so whatever RULES the AFL have in place for themselves is absolutely, totally irrelevant.

Again - if they are signed up to the WADA code (and they are) then the rules are beyond question - two members of a team found guilty means TEAM WIDE PUNISHMENT - period, end of story, no ifs, no buts, no LANCE UPPER CUT SAYS DIFFERENT - irrelevant. These are the rules to which the AFL have signed up to.

Who governs the policing of sport in Australia - ASADA - who hands out the bans in Australian sport - ASADA (not AFL - ASADA).

Lance is correct that only the AFL can hand out team wide bans in governance issues, since they are the final arbiter in GOVERNANCE issues - but not doping issues - AFL is GOVERNED by ASADA as they are the RULING AUTHORITY IN AUSTRALIA ON THIS ISSUE - as per the WADA CODE.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes and definitely no "LANCE SAYS".

.

If you want to come back with some evidence to the contrary be my guest - If you want to go over and speak with Lance - BE MY GUEST. Till then - Yes Essendon will face team wide bans for doping if more than two members were found to be engaged in systemic doping - and 40 PLAYERS have been issued notices - let me spell that out FORTY.

It simply blows my brain that you can think a team, signed up to the WADA code will escape team penalties with systemic team wide doping, when this has been the proven case for almost a decade now - because an Essendon* supporter thinks otherwise ( and thinks so despite being proven wrong on almost every issue he raises).

As I said - think about things before responding. Think man.
 

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On this, Lance and I have disagreed on this in the past. The doping code does specifically allow for the application of team penalties in line with the WADA code - a fact which even lance agrees with. its how or if they can be applied is where we have disagreed.
The WADA code defers to the relevant ruling body on that sport in Australia - people tend to think this is referring to AFL - where as it is referring to the ruling body for anti doping - ASADA. Since that is the ruling body, in Australia on doping. NOT the AFL.

Australia is a signatory to the code as well. This needs to be considered by people and it is not. I can not see how ASADA can not hand down a team wide ban should more than 2 players be found to be doping - it is their specific duty to do so.

If (post appeals) the AFL declares that they are ignoring the ban then WADA would be within its rights to ban Australia from attending national team events like Olympics and World Cup as they are not abiding by the code.
 
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I think the AFL have their own code that adheres to the WADA code re individual offenses but maintains some control over team offenses. They have signed but with some power shifting exceptions. Put it this way ... If 18 clubs had doped, the AFL are not going to relinquish control of team penalties to WADA or ASADA.

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Wickzki

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He has made the argument numerous times (with links to the AFL code) that under the AFL code the AFL are have sole discretion over team based penalties.
Lance Uppercut misses the point of this statute within the AFL's laws of the game. This rule is present so that when teams break the laws of the competition, such as salary cap rorting, the AFL has the empowerment to make the final decision in regards to penalties and sanctions. There is no law in Australia that says "AFL teams cannot break the salary cap." The law, which all teams agree to, is simply there so that the AFL can have control over their code (beyond the power of the law). We again saw this last year when the AFL banned Essendon from the finals and imposed draft sanctions over the club. Again, there is no law in the country that would have done the same thing but Essendon entered into that agreement with the AFL in order to be a constituted AFL club.

This is not true when it comes to ASADA and the AFL. The AFL and ASADA have a legally binding contract which places the professional athletes and their support staff under the ASADA code. There really is no difference between ASADA sending 40 show cause notices to Essendon (and/or former Essendon) players and ASADA sending 1 show cause notice to Ahmed Saad. Each player will be trialed under ASADA (WADA) code. The AFL is powerless to stop ASADA from banning each individual player and support staff to the letter of their law such as they have with Saad.

I do not believe that past sanctioning and banning players and support staff that ASADA will attack the Essendon Football Club. What I believe will happen is that they will leave that entirely for the AFL to fine and sanction the club for bringing the game further into disrepute. However, I tend to be of the belief that the AFL will end it at that (the banning of the Essendon players). Essendon will be in enough ruin that it almost makes any further fine or sanction detrimental to the league itself.

The banning of the players and support staff will be enough to send a message to WADA and other sporting codes world wide that there is a zero tolerance policy in effect.
 

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Mate - I have read everything Lance has posted - and then - gave up since he broaches no criticism of anything he posts, no matter how concrete the evidence is until it become so ridiculous he is laughing stock of the board, then, simply changes his position.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in engaging him - he is TWAT who at the start of the ENTIRE SAGA made so many outrageous and ridiculous claims that I put him on ignore for a considerable time.

Claiming I should instead engage HIM in debate is frankly insulting.

Especially when I have no need to do so - I have posted the RULES to which the AFL is signed up to, so whatever RULES the AFL have in place for themselves is absolutely, totally irrelevant.

Again - if they are signed up to the WADA code (and they are) then the rules are beyond question - two members of a team found guilty means TEAM WIDE PUNISHMENT - period, end of story, no ifs, no buts, no LANCE UPPER CUT SAYS DIFFERENT - irrelevant. These are the rules to which the AFL have signed up to.

Who governs the policing of sport in Australia - ASADA - who hands out the bans in Australian sport - ASADA (not AFL - ASADA).

Lance is correct that only the AFL can hand out team wide bans in governance issues, since they are the final arbiter in GOVERNANCE issues - but not doping issues - AFL is GOVERNED by ASADA as they are the RULING AUTHORITY IN AUSTRALIA ON THIS ISSUE - as per the WADA CODE.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes and definitely no "LANCE SAYS".

.

If you want to come back with some evidence to the contrary be my guest - If you want to go over and speak with Lance - BE MY GUEST. Till then - Yes Essendon will face team wide bans for doping if more than two members were found to be engaged in systemic doping - and 40 PLAYERS have been issued notices - let me spell that out FORTY.

It simply blows my brain that you can think a team, signed up to the WADA code will escape team penalties with systemic team wide doping, when this has been the proven case for almost a decade now - because an Essendon* supporter thinks otherwise ( and thinks so despite being proven wrong on almost every issue he raises).

As I said - think about things before responding. Think man.
Good information in your posts mate but have you had a bad day?
 

Dramoth

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The new boss of ASADA, coming from a law enforcement background, is the worst possible person to be running ASADA as far as Essendon* are concerned.

He will recommend the harshest possible punishments to the ADRVP.

And as we all discuss this... the Essendon lawyers are discussing which islands in the Caribbean they are going to buy once this has finally finished.
 

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The new boss of ASADA, coming from a law enforcement background, is the worst possible person to be running ASADA as far as Essendon* are concerned.

He will recommend the harshest possible punishments to the ADRVP.

And as we all discuss this... the Essendon lawyers are discussing which islands in the Caribbean they are going to buy once this has finally finished.
Yep. My money is on infractions being handed out to the majority of the players who were there in 2012 as well as some staff, then appeals going to the administrative appeals court (?) and then higher. Will drag on for some time....
 

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Does Essendon have a billionaire benefactor? Without one I can see this being the end of their club. Players suspended, highly motivated by their managers, will be suing them for loss of wages - 'we only did what you our employer asked us to'. A player over 26 who is rubbed out for 2yrs will be suing for millions for prematurely ending their careers. SAD lol
 
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I think the AFL have their own code that adheres to the WADA code re individual offenses but maintains some control over team offenses. They have signed but with some power shifting exceptions. Put it this way ... If 18 clubs had doped, the AFL are not going to relinquish control of team penalties to WADA or ASADA.

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If everyone on tour was found guilty - then they would suspend the lot.

Same deal.
 
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The new boss of ASADA, coming from a law enforcement background, is the worst possible person to be running ASADA as far as Essendon* are concerned.

He will recommend the harshest possible punishments to the ADRVP.

And as we all discuss this... the Essendon lawyers are discussing which islands in the Caribbean they are going to buy once this has finally finished.
Yep.

Watching FC - and the realisation of what has been obvious to the rest of us is just setting in to some of the most powerful media personalities there are.

Good mate at the game tonight raised the point that there are more journalists in AFL than all the world science - true.

Most of their fluff is - fluff - shocking stuff....the rules are there for any investigative journalist to have the heads around what is going to happen - to show such shock at what was obvious to anyone who has taken the time to actually look into it is poor form.


The appointment of a cop - is a clear signal that they are going to get tough. There was an obvious worry that Australia was going to let this slip by as part of our ongoing corruption in this country - and they were obviously tapped on the shoulder as the issues of drugs in sport are wider than AFL.

I now think that the time delay in reappointing the board, and the new head of asada are a clear indication that they are about to get a whole lot tougher than those who were replaced - it looks very bad for the bombers.

That is speculative - but pretty damned obvious.
 

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Green Day were all over this whole thing years ago.

Lyrics to the song St Jimmy:

St. Jimmy's comin' down across the alleyway
Up on the boulevard like a zip gun on parade
Light of a silhouette
He's insubordinate
Coming at you on the count of 1,2, 1,2,3,4!

My name is Jimmy and you better not wear it out
Suicide commando that your momma talked about
King of the forty theives
And I'm here to represent
That needle in the vein of the establishment

I'm the patron saint of the denial
With an angel face and a taste for suicidal


Cigarettes and ramen and a little bag of dope
I am the son of a bitch and Edgar Allen Poe
Raised in the city under a halo of lights
The product of war and fear that we've been victimized

I'm the patron saint of the denial
With an angel face and a taste for suicidal

Are you talking to me?

I'll give you something to cry about.

St. Jimmy!

My name is St. Jimmy I'm a son of a gun
I'm the one that's from the way outside
I'm a teenage assassin executing some fun
In the cult of the life of crime.

I really hate to say it but I told you so
So shut your mouth before I shoot you down old boy
Welcome to the club and give me some blood
And the resident leader at the lost and found

It's comedy and tragedy
It's St. Jimmy
And that's my name...
And don't wear it out!

:cool:
 
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