Delisted #34: Jake Long - Delisted - 24/10

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Bit of an almost game, which unfortunately is where he's still at. Involved in a couple of passages of play. Could've been involved in a couple more. Had an unlucky free kick paid against for HTB after shrugging free from a couple of tackles. Kicked a shocker of a set shot for a point in the last.

Seemed to find space alright but it didn't result in too much possession. He probably needs to be a bit less of a sheep dog if he wants to be more involved in a game.
 
I can't help thinking that if his name wasn't Long no one would consider him AFL standard
 
Old Campaigner said:
I can't help thinking that if his name wasn't Long no one would consider him AFL standard
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He's not yet. But if I told you that we had an elite (BFL) tackler, with good speed, skills and a good work ethic but lacks a tank and size, what would you say?
 

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eth-dog said:
He's not yet. But if I told you that we had an elite (BFL) tackler, with good speed, skills and a good work ethic but lacks a tank and size, what would you say?
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I'd point to all the other players who shine in the 2s but are out of their depth in the AFL. I just don't see anything that suggests he'll be a regular in the AFL side. Maybe he'll make it if given enough time but would he be given that time if he was just some blow-in from the back end of the draft instead of a F/S selection with a famous name?
 
Old Campaigner said:
I'd point to all the other players who shine in the 2s but are out of their depth in the AFL. I just don't see anything that suggests he'll be a regular in the AFL side. Maybe he'll make it if given enough time but would he be given that time if he was just some blow-in from the back end of the draft instead of a F/S selection with a famous name?
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He's currently a 2's player but he has the necessary tools right now. I pride myself on not judging by name. In fact I feel like the reverse has been applied for Longy more than that. Basically everyone outside of myself and Bruno were saying that he's on the list nbecause of his name at the start of last year, when he had shown that he had talent but was a WIP.
 
It's an open ended question and you can't answer it given the circumstances in which he appeared last year.

I think he showed some promising signs and I reject that he looked out of his depth.

Looking past his name runs both ways.
 
Old Campaigner said:
I'd point to all the other players who shine in the 2s but are out of their depth in the AFL. I just don't see anything that suggests he'll be a regular in the AFL side. Maybe he'll make it if given enough time but would he be given that time if he was just some blow-in from the back end of the draft instead of a F/S selection with a famous name?
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I think he showed a lot of promise in the games he played, can do some really clever things with the ball in hand to set up play, works hard defensively and at times seems too good for the VFL.

Moreso that he's a bit up and down still, and hasn't had much / any continuity at AFL level to see if he makes it.

For comparison, see how much Tipungwuti came along in the AFL side last year.

Maybe Long has been given more time than some others would have, but Jerrett and Shaun Edwards both got a good run on potential without ever quite holding down a spot in the side.
 
I think the question that needs to be asked is what position is he going to play at AFL level. Is he a medium forward/defender or is he a midfielder? There's a lot to like about Long but I can't see where he will slot into the seniors, and if he does, I don't think it will be any time soon. And how many more years do we use the Rookie list for what is essentially a project 'medium' player? A young ruck marinating on the RL for 4 years is fine but you would hope a 185cm player might have shown enough in 3 years. Big year for Jake, that's for sure.
 
Old Campaigner said:
I can't help thinking that if his name wasn't Long no one would consider him AFL standard
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Not saying i think he is a lock to make it but his name really has nothing to do with it. His junior form was good enough to be considered as a rookie chance and that is what he got. If his name was Joe Smith he was still a rookie type player. Would have been a different story if he was taken inside the top 50.

Last season he proved he had improved and had a pretty good VFL season. He became more involved, and started to look like he belonged.

Has not been great so far this year and has to go up another level which is fair enough but his name has nothing to do with anything. His raw form was pretty much what you would expect from a rookie and he has exceeded 60% of rookies by lasting over 2 seasons and actually playing some AFL games.

I still rate him 50/50 as far as becoming a regular AFL player and he would be under pressure to hold his spot.
 
We've won 2/3 of the games he's played, so it's not like he's losing us games :p
 
Maddogm said:
We've won 2/3 of the games he's played, so it's not like he's losing us games :p
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One of those games was against Carlton, so you can't count it in such a small sample.
 
eth-dog said:
He's not yet. But if I told you that we had an elite (BFL) tackler, with good speed, skills and a good work ethic but lacks a tank and size, what would you say?
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I would say 'do I get a knife set with that?'
 

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I wonder if he will be one of those forwards that the club try to turn into a defender. He's one of those players that struggle to stay relevant up forward - I reckon he'd find it easier down back. I also think with his great pace and agility that he could develop to be very good defensively on those lightning quick type forwards which is an issue for us.

Right now up forward he seems to be behind all of: Fantasia, Tippa, Green, Begley and about equal to Redman. That's not even including the likes of Laverde, Langford, Francis as those medium marking types (although Francis may be a bit larger than that).

Conversely a lot of the guys playing out of the backline are 1-2 years from retirement: Stanton, Kelly, Goddard, Baguley etc so there is more opportunity there from next year onwards.
 
Old Campaigner said:
I'd point to all the other players who shine in the 2s but are out of their depth in the AFL. I just don't see anything that suggests he'll be a regular in the AFL side. Maybe he'll make it if given enough time but would he be given that time if he was just some blow-in from the back end of the draft instead of a F/S selection with a famous name?
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Trav Colyer was frequently in and out of the side until 2015. A lot of his shanked kicks were infuriating, but he's been given years to develop his game, to a point now where if we traded him this board would go into meltdown. Longy's just getting warm. At his best he has looked entirely capable.

Maybe another angle to this is re: the culture of the footy club, and think perhaps that's where you're coming from; that nostalgia and rose coloured glasses can cause us to deceive ourselves. If Trav is the yardstick, though, I'd say Longy's got plenty of time yet.
 
ghostdog said:
Trav Colyer was frequently in and out of the side until 2015. A lot of his shanked kicks were infuriating, but he's been given years to develop his game, to a point now where if we traded him this board would go into meltdown. Longy's just getting warm. At his best he has looked entirely capable.

Maybe another angle to this is re: the culture of the footy club, and think perhaps that's where you're coming from; that nostalgia and rose coloured glasses can cause us to deceive ourselves. If Trav is the yardstick, though, I'd say Longy's got plenty of time yet.
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yeah but Colyer bought elite speed to the AFL level which made it obvious (to some) that he was worth persisting with. However I'm not really seeing an elite attribute in Long that suggests he will develop into anything other than depth.
 
Old Campaigner said:
yeah but Colyer bought elite speed to the AFL level which made it obvious (to some) that he was worth persisting with. However I'm not really seeing an elite attribute in Long that suggests he will develop into anything other than depth.
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He has very good agility which allows him to create a spare man by taking on a tackler. Getting that overlap can often lead to goals the way footy is played these days.
 
yodellinhank said:
He has very good agility which allows him to create a spare man by taking on a tackler. Getting that overlap can often lead to goals the way footy is played these days.
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only if he's got the ball which he doesn't seem to do a lot of
 
to go back to my original point though, I doubt many people would be making tenuous arguments about 'agility' as an elite attribute if he was just a typical speculative rookie pick and not a famous F/S
 
Old Campaigner said:
yeah but Colyer bought elite speed to the AFL level which made it obvious (to some) that he was worth persisting with. However I'm not really seeing an elite attribute in Long that suggests he will develop into anything other than depth.
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Well, the club obviously doesn't consider him to be AFL standard yet anyway, but they have said they'll be patient with him. I thought when he had the ball he looked evasive and disposed of the ball well enough when he was in the seniors towards the end of last year. I take your point though that he needs to find more of it. His skills and disposal in traffic were promising though, and if I think of the competence of the Dogs fleet of attacking smalls and mediums, I'd hope that Jake can develop into that depth player.

On Colyer's speed as an elite trait, how do you differentiate between his and Lauchlan Dalgleish's speed? Shouldn't Dalgleish have been given the same time to develop that Colyer was given?
 
ghostdog said:
Well, the club obviously doesn't consider him to be AFL standard yet anyway, but they have said they'll be patient with him. I thought when he had the ball he looked evasive and disposed of the ball well enough when he was in the seniors towards the end of last year. I take your point though that he needs to find more of it. His skills and disposal in traffic were promising though, and if I think of the competence of the Dogs fleet of attacking smalls and mediums, I'd hope that Jake can develop into that depth player.

On Colyer's speed as an elite trait, how do you differentiate between his and Lauchlan Dalgleish's speed? Shouldn't Dalgleish have been given the same time to develop that Colyer was given?
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It's called being in the right place at the right time. Clubs will put up with all sorts of weak s**t and then you become an incumbent. It's the same for all sport, it's also why a clear majority of sports teams cannot claim to be run well.
 
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