Coach #34: Jamie Macmillan - delisted after 167 NM games/46 NM goals - returns as NMFC AFL Footy Ops boss (reporting to L.Kane)

[Elroo]

Possibly the worst 30 plus possession game I have ever seen! Only Paul Carazzo back in the day comes close.

I can't remember what 1/4 it was, but I remember McMillian running into the 50m arc along the boundary line and there was only 2 Swans players and 3 North players in the 50m arc. Rather than have a shot from goal on a 45 degree angle from 35 out he decides to pass the ball. Guess who he hit directly on the chest with the pass!

 

[mouncey2franklin]

He's essentially the re-carnation of Shannon Watt, but this time Shannon is the deputy Vice Captain.

Shannon Watt was a freak athlete, very quick on the burst and a big body.

He was a forward who was turned into a makeshift (and generally poor) KPD because our stocks were empty after Martin left.

IIRC.

Macmillans on the other hand is athletically okay for AFL level, and is too poor with ball in hand to be a wingman, so they play him as a quote-unquote defender.

Watt was used for his athletic prowess in a position he couldn't really play, Macmillans is hidden in the back six because he can't do anything else.

Chalk and cheese.

And now Macmillans has been exposed by 6-6-6.

 

[RobZombie]

MacMillan isn’t a defender. Neither is Luke.
And the longer we play midfielders in our last line of defence, the more ****** we will be.

33%. We have only won a 3rd of all one on one contests inside our defensive 50. Are the alarm bells muted and warning signs switched off? You can’t argue with those numbers

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a s**t year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

 

[shintemaster]

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

Devil's Advocate though - how many of these 1v1 contests do each of them attend and what level of player are they up against? Still, overall agree, his main issue is the turnovers and complete lack of hurt factor attacking (at least, hurting the opposition) this year. It's tough to mount an argument for a rebounding attacking defender that doesn't provide great lockdown support when their disposal is so questionable.

Sammy is only an issue because we're playing him, I'd be pretty annoyed if we planned for this year for him to be anything other than a bonus if he came good. Thompson isn't peak Thompson but he is playing his role well enough. Agree on the midfield. The backline defensively has mostly been solid this year bar extreme circumstances, attacking wise much less so. Pittard has destroyed Jmac offensively IMO.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

Sometimes facts beat group think.

 

[shintemaster]

Sometimes facts beat group think.

Sort of, stats aren't facts per se. If Tarrant lines up on peak Buddy all day and McDonald lines up on a 1 min from retirement broken down Roughead their stats might be the same but their contributions aren't - and vice versa.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Would he and LMac have got to their respective games tallies based on their output so far if Clarkson was the coach?

My guess is no. He s**t cans poor decision makers and users of the footy quicker than any other coach in the league.

 

[arden station]

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

Except that 33% figure puts us 18th in the league apparently. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.

As for MacMillan, he spends most of his time playing as the loose man - he is barely involved in any legitimate one-on-ones. He is never asked to play on quality opposition forwards like the other backs you mention. 15% of how many contests? But let's just say he is our best one-on-one defender, why isn't he playing on the best forwards? Most of us have seen enough of him live to know it's because he gets out marked by good tall forwards and isn't agile enough to play on small forwards. We've all seen it and we all know it's why he plays as the loose and why those stats mean nothing.

 

[tazaa]

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

Sometimes I wonder how many contests Thompson or Tarrant lose because their teammate turned it over.
I reckon all of Hawkins’ goals were a result of turnovers but it would be Robbie’s fault in the stat line.

 

[Snake_Baker]

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

C'mon mate. You're buggering up a perfectly good stoning.

 

[The Butcher]

That's loss percentage. We lose 33% of defensive 1v1s. The rest are won or halved/killed.

And this stuff isn't hard to look up. JMac's actually at 15% this year, a career best. Pittard 21%, McDonald 31, Tarrant 20, Atley 50 (but that's only 3 of 6), Marley 20, Thompson 50%, McKay 14%, Wright 83% (faaaaark!).

"JMac can't defend" isn't and has never been true. "JMac is a terrible tackler in open play" is true enough. That JMac is having a **** year for turnovers is absolutely true (career average 3.5, 2019 5.6), and that's kinda bad for a guy who's value is as a high-meterage rebounder. He's still elite for intercept possessions and above average for intercept marks, so he hasn't lost his ability to read the play.

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

Sammy Wright from Katamatite is sadly cooked.
Thompson is not the defender he used to be.
The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

15% of what axactly??? Lumping 1000 DIFFERENT contests under one heading and spruiking the "wins" "draws" and "losses" percentages might convince some to buy your stats package... but it won't convince me Jmac can defend 1v1 any better than any spud of his size and strength who hasn't been training professionally at just that skill for years and years.

I see what you say about structure and instruction putting his performance in perspective, but don't use a stat like that, which can't possibly reflect reality, to make a point. They're selling a product. Don't buy it!

 

[RobZombie]

Except that 33% figure puts us 18th in the league apparently. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.

As for MacMillan, he spends most of his time playing as the loose man - he is barely involved in any legitimate one-on-ones. He is never asked to play on quality opposition forwards like the other backs you mention. 15% of how many contests? But let's just say he is our best one-on-one defender, why isn't he playing on the best forwards? Most of us have seen enough of him live to know it's because he gets out marked by good tall forwards and isn't agile enough to play on small forwards. We've all seen it and we all know it's why he plays as the loose and why those stats mean nothing.

Yeah apparently the team 33% is the worst but I don’t know what the range is. 33% used to be about average for players. I assume the original article was from the H-S? Anyone know if it had more info?

JMac has the equal most 1v1's for NM with McDonald at 19. Thompson has had 18, Tarrant 15.

Those are small sample sizes and CD are a bit cagey about their definition of a 1v1 (e.g., I think it includes 3rd-up spoils).

It’s a couple of years since I’ve had a Prospectus, but he’s usually around the 30% mark, just slightly better than average.

I’m not claiming that he’s suddenly turned into Nick Smith on the basis of 9 games. It’s just ... confirmation bias brought on by him getting outbodied by Dane Swan in the rain once is not much of a sample size either.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

If the Dane Swan incident was the last time he was so comprehensively outbodied, I'm sure people would be more forgiving.

I suspect much of the criticism arises from the fact that it continues to happen on a fairly regular basis. For example, at least twice in the recent Carlton game, he was comprehensively outbodied by Jack SOS.

I reckon that is close to the sum total of outbody contests won by Jack SOS at AFL level, too.

 

[koshari]

I suspect much of the criticism arises from the fact that it continues to happen on a fairly regular basis. For example, at least twice in the recent Carlton game, he was comprehensively outbodied by Jack SOS.

That there is the precise definition of sad, this is worse than i saw Basti outbodied by Jason Johanason. and at least basti can claim to be an outside mid rather than a key defender!

i will give jmac one thing, he can sure keep the big footy post count ticking over.

I reckon that is close to the sum total of outbody contests won by Jack SOS at AFL level, too.

wouldn't be so bad if these 2 blokes were playing the level they are suited to, VFL. however they are running round in the 1s, pretty obvious why their 2 teams respectively occupy last and 2nd last.

 

[arden station]

Yeah apparently the team 33% is the worst but I don’t know what the range is. 33% used to be about average for players. I assume the original article was from the H-S? Anyone know if it had more info?

JMac has the equal most 1v1's for NM with McDonald at 19. Thompson has had 18, Tarrant 15.

Those are small sample sizes and CD are a bit cagey about their definition of a 1v1 (e.g., I think it includes 3rd-up spoils).

It’s a couple of years since I’ve had a Prospectus, but he’s usually around the 30% mark, just slightly better than average.

I’m not claiming that he’s suddenly turned into Nick Smith on the basis of 9 games. It’s just ... confirmation bias brought on by him getting outbodied by Dane Swan in the rain once is not much of a sample size either.

Not confirmation bias - you only have to go back to the Carlton game for examples of him losing genuine one on ones against Silvagni - a VFL player at best - and others.

 

[shintemaster]

Yeah apparently the team 33% is the worst but I don’t know what the range is. 33% used to be about average for players. I assume the original article was from the H-S? Anyone know if it had more info?

JMac has the equal most 1v1's for NM with McDonald at 19. Thompson has had 18, Tarrant 15.

Those are small sample sizes and CD are a bit cagey about their definition of a 1v1 (e.g., I think it includes 3rd-up spoils).

It's bloody convoluted trying to get a read on these stats unless you're willing to sit down TOD style in the case of Gibson Vs Bigfooty and literally rate each players contests over the course of a game.

How many 1v1's does each player get into?
Do some players avoid 1v1's because they play loose?
Do some players avoid 1v1's because they're better at readying the play than their opponent?

The list goes on. For mine, Jmac mostly plays loose and is there to gain ground and attack. He's copping stick this year because his attacking thrusts are the equivalent of a stab in the back more often than not (IMO) and yes, we need to allow some credit because others have to make position for him to kick to, but even being generous he's had a bit of a stinker for mine.

FWIW the outbodied thing doesn't bother me as much as some. A few issues every now and again, whilst frustrating, aren't deal breakers. Handing the ball back to your opponents as often (or more) than your own team raises my eyebrows though.

 

[7577969923]

Would he and LMac have got to their respective games tallies based on their output so far if Clarkson was the coach?

My guess is no. He **** cans poor decision makers and users of the footy quicker than any other coach in the league.

MAybe they would both be vastly better players if Clarkson was the coach because his systema nd team would have developed them better. I don't think either of them have improved their game at all over the past three years.

 

[Kimbo]

Shannon Watt was a freak athlete, very quick on the burst and a big body.

He was a forward who was turned into a makeshift (and generally poor) KPD because our stocks were empty after Martin left.

IIRC.

Macmillans on the other hand is athletically okay for AFL level, and is too poor with ball in hand to be a wingman, so they play him as a quote-unquote defender.

Watt was used for his athletic prowess in a position he couldn't really play, Macmillans is hidden in the back six because he can't do anything else.

Chalk and cheese.

And now Macmillans has been exposed by 6-6-6.

In Watt's defence, he got the most out of his ability and was 'honest' as a defender. I recall him holding Pav well on at least one occasion. He was able to provide some one-on-one defending on a reasonably regular basis, even though his ceiling was pretty low.

 

[Kimbo]

Paraphrasing Teffy, the dysfunction of the gameplan under 6-6-6 isn't doing him any favours. There are bigger problems such as:

The midfield is slaughtering the back 6.

This I reckon. In the only game I've seen live this year (Rd 1) where he was crucified for turnovers, much of that had to do with being in the unenviable position of needing to provide a release kick under immense pressure, having been the only one handling the ball multiple times, trying to provide an option.

Thanks for the stats Rob... interesting.

 

[King Corey]

In Watt's defence, he got the most out of his ability and was 'honest' as a defender. I recall him holding Pav well on at least one occasion. He was able to provide some one-on-one defending on a reasonably regular basis, even though his ceiling was pretty low.

It's not like we took Shannon Watt with our first round pick in a draft where Simon Black or Adam Goodes were taken after him.

Edit: we did watt now?

 

[Kimbo]

It's not like we took Shannon Watt with our first round pick in a draft where Simon Black or Adam Goodes were taken after him.

Edit: we did watt now?

At picks 31 and 43, we were hardly on our Pat Malone. They were there when we had our second pick (Brad Stephens.)

 

[King Corey]

At picks 31 and 43, we were hardly on our Pat Malone. They were there when we had our second pick (Brad Stephens.)

Unfortunately I have the memory of watching the draft at the time and I think it was Mick McGuane not shutting up about Goodes from very early on and becoming more and more amazed as he was left unselected.

As for our picks, it just would've been beautiful to have turned Wayne Schwass into Shannon Grant + Simon Black or equivalent. For some reason we never nail both legs of a multi-part trade.

 

[benbanjo]

Unfortunately I have the memory of watching the draft at the time and I think it was Mick McGuane not shutting up about Goodes from very early on and becoming more and more amazed as he was left unselected.

As for our picks, it just would've been beautiful to have turned Wayne Schwass into Shannon Grant + Simon Black or equivalent. For some reason we never nail both legs of a multi-part trade.

Is it our drafting or our development that is the problem though?

 

[Gasometer]

Lol at Shannon Watt ...in the 00’s he was the Whipping Boy on this Board plus Duff

In the Teens JMac is the whipping Boy on this Board plus Scotts

Off topic...are my Buckley weekly emails in my Trash email box?

 

[benbanjo]

Lol at Shannon Watt ...in the 00’s he was the Whipping Boy on this Board plus Duff

In the Teens JMac is the whipping Boy on this Board plus Scotts

Off topic...are my Buckley weekly emails in my Trash email box?

Start a thread Gaso, top whipping boys of the last 30 years....
Clayton, Watt, Robbins, Anthony, Gibson, Jmac, Lmac, we have had some good ones!