Coach #34: Jamie Macmillan - delisted after 167 NM games/46 NM goals - returns as NMFC AFL Footy Ops boss (reporting to L.Kane)

[Passmore]

Start a thread Gaso, top whipping boys of the last 30 years....
Clayton, Watt, Robbins, Anthony, Gibson, Jmac, Lmac, we have had some good ones!

The brothers Dwyer and Dugdale. Darren Steele.....my namesake would have got a fair run too.


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[Gasometer]

Start a thread Gaso, top whipping boys of the last 30 years....
Clayton, Watt, Robbins, Anthony, Gibson, Jmac, Lmac, we have had some good ones!

Roy Ramsay

 

[Gasometer]

Start a thread Gaso, top whipping boys of the last 30 years....
Clayton, Watt, Robbins, Anthony, Gibson, Jmac, Lmac, we have had some good ones!

Shane Clayton

 

[Gasometer]

Start a thread Gaso, top whipping boys of the last 30 years....
Clayton, Watt, Robbins, Anthony, Gibson, Jmac, Lmac, we have had some good ones!

Bill Shorte...oh wait a mi

 

[rickety]

Brad Nimmo, Paul Bryce

 

[Uber Roo]

Shane Clayton

I strongly object
We used to holiday together at Halcyon Caravan Park, Safety Beach
Nice bloke
On second thoughts, don’t worry, he Was pretty average


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[Uber Roo]

Jamie Stephenson
SA sensation, Robert Pyman


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shintemaster]

Can we get back on topic - I really don't see the point discussing players that weren't around until Horace was in his late 50's.

 

[benbanjo]

Shane Clayton

I already had Clayton, get your own.

 

[Gasometer]

Can we get back on topic - I really don't see the point discussing players that weren't around until Horace was in his late 50's.

Yep nothing better than blaming JMac for the past 18 months

 

[shintemaster]

Yep nothing better than blaming JMac for the past 18 months

He's been here longer than that. Can we really be sure that he's not responsible for every loss we've had in the last 10 years?

 

[AdmiralBenson]

Yeah JMac been below expectations for a senior player (as we all know, and for too long) but I'd say Higgins has been more disappointing.

Been awful this year regardless of what "data" might suggest. Fumbly, scrappy, no defensive effort etc

Polec also has been disappointing for mine. Maybe I'm being harsh but for two so-called elite prime movers they've done little damage imo.

So whilst JMac has been below par, he has higher credentialed teammates rowing the same boat on below required output.

 

[ferball]

I already had Clayton, get your own.

So Gaso had a Claytons Clayton!

 

[ferball]

Yeah JMac been below expectations for a senior player (as we all know, and for too long) but I'd say Higgins has been more disappointing.

Been awful this year regardless of what "data" might suggest. Fumbly, scrappy, no defensive effort etc

Polec also has been disappointing for mine. Maybe I'm being harsh but for two so-called elite prime movers they've done little damage imo.

So whilst JMac has been below par, he has higher credentialed teammates rowing the same boat on below required output.

I reckon Polec has been far better than Higgo.

 

[AdmiralBenson]

I reckon Polec has been far better than Higgo.

Agree. Polec has been mostly good, but (I'm biased) I'd prefer Neale. Both high priced/hyped off season recuits this season and feel Neale clearly the more complete player.

Not sure what's up with Higgo. Usually very clean. Well, hopefully it clicks for him (and us) soon.

 

[spurs]

Mark Porter

 

[Yoko and me]

I'm not sure why we haven't tried Macmillan or wright in the forward pocket to take a tall defender and at least spoil or use some craft to free Brown or Larkey or wood even. Both can mark and provide an option. Just a thought. They probably tried with zurhaar and Garner but they are not able to play on an intercept marker. They are predominately attacking roamers by instinct. It is time to try things for the sake of us (and for Scott) being so predictably easy to plan against.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Mark Porter

In spud level yes however porter still could serve a purpose as a backup ruck at least

Shane Clayton is the perfect comparison here with turnstiles

 

[RobZombie]

It's bloody convoluted trying to get a read on these stats unless you're willing to sit down TOD style in the case of Gibson Vs Bigfooty and literally rate each players contests over the course of a game.

How many 1v1's does each player get into?
Do some players avoid 1v1's because they play loose?
Do some players avoid 1v1's because they're better at readying the play than their opponent?

The list goes on. For mine, Jmac mostly plays loose and is there to gain ground and attack. He's copping stick this year because his attacking thrusts are the equivalent of a stab in the back more often than not (IMO) and yes, we need to allow some credit because others have to make position for him to kick to, but even being generous he's had a bit of a stinker for mine.

FWIW the outbodied thing doesn't bother me as much as some. A few issues every now and again, whilst frustrating, aren't deal breakers. Handing the ball back to your opponents as often (or more) than your own team raises my eyebrows though.

Yes, I completely agree, and have said so several times, that the opacity of some of the stats on the part of CD is a big frustration. I also agree, and have said before, that accounting for individual contributions to defence is a hard thing to do in these catch-all measures such as Player Ratings and, yes, Snake, Supercoach. Sure you can charge a player with a clanger/turnover for giving away a free, but how do you assess losing a 1v1 when giving away a free and holding up play is actually a better outcome? How do you assess losing a contest vs failing to get to a contest vs gambling whether to come off your man? If you lose a 2v1 how to you apportion the blame? How about defensive positioning that forces the other team to take a worse option? All you can really measure is the effect it has on the relative output of your opponent.

BUT ... even at a smallish sample size the numbers don’t suggest that JMac is "mostly playing loose". He looks like a fairly competent general defender. The Whipping Boy Factor (WBF) is fed by by reinforcing bias and the fact that we simply care more about the mistakes our own players make. We had 6 fewer turnovers than the Swans on Saturday but I assume the GDT was full of complaints about our skills, not laughing at theirs.

Yes, he’s having a bad year for turnovers. Some of them are because of pressure and lack of structure ahead of the ball. Some of them are missed kicks and bad decisions. Some are musical-chairs frees where he’s the last one holding the ball when the whistle goes. It is absolutely a problem for him, but also for the team as a whole.

And he’s still doing some things well. He’s 8th in the league for intercept possessions and 31st for intercept marks (11th among general defenders). There are reasons he’s playing beyond "lol he’s got kompromat".

 

[Arthur Cloke]

I think Jamie is going to be a very damaging player when he is consitantly racking up 20 plus disposals a game.

Agree half-heartedly.

 

[King Corey]

Eye test: Jamie MacMillan isn't a tight defender and isn't damaging enough to compensate for it. Has his good games where he provides medium pace, medium level interception, rebound and disposal skill but should be a small cog in a team's structure, not a "work the ball out of defence through him" one.

 

[Long Live the King]

Shane Clayton

Jonathon Hay

 

[shintemaster]

BUT ... even at a smallish sample size the numbers don’t suggest that JMac is "mostly playing loose". He looks like a fairly competent general defender. The Whipping Boy Factor (WBF) is fed by by reinforcing bias and the fact that we simply care more about the mistakes our own players make. We had 6 fewer turnovers than the Swans on Saturday but I assume the GDT was full of complaints about our skills, not laughing at theirs.

Agree on all you wrote and I think that's a fair description, mostly a fairly competent defender. Not the best 1 on 1 but above average at reading where he should be to help the overall backline. I still stand by my comments in general that I see his role as primarily attacking: ie. as you say competent but not great defender that is there to gain ground and I still stand by my assessment that this year has been very much far from his best in that role. It doesn't mean I think he's the whole reason we're losing, but by the same token I also didn’t think Jy Simpkin or LDU were the main reason we were losing either – and the world did not end when they were dropped or pushed to other parts of the ground.

I’m not writing Jmac or any other player off, but I can understand and agree with the frustration when some, but not all, players are given a golden pass when their role, structurally doesn’t necessarily seem so compelling that another couldn’t attempt it. Possibly we could bring another player in to replace Jmac and they might be slightly less rebounding but tighter defensively (allowing more rebound for others), or maybe they would be much looser defensively but extremely damaging offensively. We’ll never know whether either option would be better for the team because it will never happen under the current regime. I’m not arguing that it would definitely be better, I’m just arguing that we shouldn’t rule out ever trying it when things aren’t going well.

 

[RobZombie]

I’m not writing Jmac or any other player off, but I can understand and agree with the frustration when some, but not all, players are given a golden pass when their role, structurally doesn’t necessarily seem so compelling that another couldn’t attempt it. Possibly we could bring another player in to replace Jmac and they might be slightly less rebounding but tighter defensively (allowing more rebound for others), or maybe they would be much looser defensively but extremely damaging offensively. We’ll never know whether either option would be better for the team because it will never happen under the current regime. I’m not arguing that it would definitely be better, I’m just arguing that we shouldn’t rule out ever trying it when things aren’t going well.

Ok, but even allowing for all that, who? Looking at the list, the like for like replacements are Tom & Red Óg Murphy, Crocker, maybe Watson. Or send a Hall, Higgins, Ahern type back there. Skinny kids, project players, still returning from injury, or robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I’d love for T Murphy to play his way into the side but at this point he has a career high of 14 disposals. I actually don’t mind the idea of giving Dec Watson a crack. Or giving Durdin a run and moving Scooter to JMac's role. But I’m still far from convinced that he’s going bad enough to be dropped.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Ok, but even allowing for all that, who? Looking at the list, the like for like replacements are Tom & Red Óg Murphy, Crocker, maybe Watson. Or send a Hall, Higgins, Ahern type back there. Skinny kids, project players, still returning from injury, or robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I’d love for T Murphy to play his way into the side but at this point he has a career high of 14 disposals. I actually don’t mind the idea of giving Dec Watson a crack. Or giving Durdin a run and moving Scooter to JMac's role. But I’m still far from convinced that he’s going bad enough to be dropped.

you dont need to play the loose extra defender, play an extra mid instead who can rotate other parts of the ground