Player Watch #34: Liam McBean

Will McBean be an AFL standard forward for Richmond ( 150 + games)

  • No

  • Yes

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RockJobster0312 said:
As I said, I don't want to get into a McBean vs every other CHF arguement. I think it's superfluous to the conversation.

Look, I get your point and your frustration. But I don't agree that a player who kicks a bag once every few games and is renowned for being below par on certain non-negotiables warrants selection on one game and one game alone. I know the counter argument is then why Griff or why Chaplin, but you know that those guys are going to influence those same non-negotiables which are keeping McBean out of the side.

If he has a pearler of game in the next one or two matches and doesn't get selected, then sure I'll stand right by you in frustration and confusion. But with young players (I say this from having a background in coaching semi-professional sports) you have to ensure standards are held consistently. The club believe to date, McBean hasn't provided that.
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I'm not really judging it off one game, as I said earlier he's had a very solid return the last 3 seasons and hasn't been rewarded for it. All the arguments against his inclusion seem to go out the window when guys like Chaplain and Griff get games as they don't impact a ******* thing in any positive manner.
Maybe these non-negotiables need to include "competent performance" which would rule out Hunt, Chaplain, Morris, Giffiths who are just list cloggers at the moment.
 
NZ_Tiger said:
I'm not really judging it off one game, as I said earlier he's had a very solid return the last 3 seasons and hasn't been rewarded for it. All the arguments against his inclusion seem to go out the window when guys like Chaplain and Griff get games as they don't impact a ******* thing in any positive manner.
Maybe these non-negotiables need to include "competent performance" which would rule out Hunt, Chaplain, Morris, Giffiths who are just list cloggers at the moment.
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Lol non negotiables is a funny one , Grigg jogs by opp players every week for the last 2 years ( lazy ) And other players don't tackle or run the other way either .
Dimma has his favs full stop been going on for a while now .
Run around like a headless chook get 1 possession get a game , turn the ball over cost us 5 goals get a game , kick a bag in the VFL and don't get a game , I guess we do have to many forwards anyway playing at the moment kicking butt each week .
 

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RockJobster0312 said:
Goals aren't the only measureable statistic that should determine whether a player should be elevated from VFL to AFL.

I also don't want to enter into the Vickery v McBean argument.

But it was widely spelt out that the biggest areas of weakness for McBean are his pressure acts (same with Lennon and Lloyd and why they have been dropped over the course of their three years at the club) and his ability to make and then impact critical contests.

He failed in VFL round 1, and passed VFL round 2. One good game does not maketh the man as far as Im concerned, so I think it's the right call to ask him to back it up this wekeend (and maybe even next weekend) before elevating him to the Seniors.

Also, McBean knows where he is at. Im not going to say he won't walk at years end, but from what I understand he understands and agrees with the expectations of the club on him should he wish to be promoted.
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He's played more than one good game though.
 
RockJobster0312 said:
As I said, I don't want to get into a McBean vs every other CHF arguement. I think it's superfluous to the conversation.

Look, I get your point and your frustration. But I don't agree that a player who kicks a bag once every few games and is renowned for being below par on certain non-negotiables warrants selection on one game and one game alone. I know the counter argument is then why Griff or why Chaplin, but you know that those guys are going to influence those same non-negotiables which are keeping McBean out of the side.

If he has a pearler of game in the next one or two matches and doesn't get selected, then sure I'll stand right by you in frustration and confusion. But with young players (I say this from having a background in coaching semi-professional sports) you have to ensure standards are held consistently. The club believe to date, McBean hasn't provided that.
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I think a guy who kicks a bag of goals often should be looked at since it is the thing that our senior side struggle to do on most days.

We have one of the best forwards in the league in Riewoldt. Since McBean can do the main thing as a forward (kicking goals), can't we put him in the side and have Riewoldt mentoring him on and off the field so that he can improve on his deficiencies? I think so. It is not like our forward line is performing well anyway.

A forward kicking so much goals at VFL level is worth persisting with. Some people just need to be challenged more to be able to flourish, and 2 non-consecutive senior games in his career is telling me that he may not be pushed enough by the club to attain the challenges that they want him to overcome.
 
Now, I am not against Vickery being in the AFL, but I have a question. It seems to be the same people (not necessarily on this thread) who say that McBean should do more stuff off the ball than just kick goals that are defending Ty Vickery's presence in our side due to how many goals he averages.

How come it is fine to only speak about goals kicked when we are speaking about Ty Vickery and we can't say that about McBean?

I think we can say that about both to be honest. Ty Vickery can kick goals so should stay, and McBean can kick goals so should have a go in the senior side. We played 3 talls before in Vickery, Griffiths and Riewoldt, so I think it could work
 
RichmondT456 said:
Now, I am not against Vickery being in the AFL, but I have a question. It seems to be the same people (not necessarily on this thread) who say that McBean should do more stuff off the ball than just kick goals that are defending Ty Vickery's presence in our side due to how many goals he averages.

How come it is fine to only speak about goals kicked when we are speaking about Ty Vickery and we can't say that about McBean?

I think we can say that about both to be honest. Ty Vickery can kick goals so should stay, and McBean can kick goals so should have a go in the senior side. We played 3 talls before in Vickery, Griffiths and Riewoldt, so I think it could work
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When a club goes badly some people like to scream and cry, others like to criticise and still others take solace in supporting every stupid thing the club does. When we go well the critics seem to run in a spin contradicting themselves and back tracking, when we are in a hole like we are now the brightsiders run about in a tizzy trying to put out fires and contradict themselves and look silly.

As for me, I think we have done a heap well but for the last two years I have lost any faith that this football department has the goods to take the next step . I still have not seen anything that suggests I'm wrong and think there is no win for us long term in keeping the course.
 
Dr Awkward said:
He's played more than one good game though.
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Sure. But not in consecutive games nor consistently. Thats all I want to see before he gets selected at AFL level. A high level of pressure acts, an getting to and impacting key aerial contests in a string of games at VFL level. Until then (and I personally hope its next week) I personally don't believe he should be elevated.
 
tiger_of_old said:
Someone answer me this?
How can a 1st year player like McGovern outperform or more to the point look at home at afl level yet ours don't even at VFL level?
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West Coast McGovern? Who was drafted and played his first game when he was 21?

No idea sorry :cool:
 

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tiger_of_old said:
Yet Mcbean has been in the AFL system for what 4yrs now?
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So what? He was a beanpole, we've been discussing it for years and he was always a long term prospect.

His body is finally AFL level. Now is the point where we can further invest into him by giving him AFL gametime.
 
DrMike said:
So what? He was a beanpole, we've been discussing it for years and he was always a long term prospect.

His body is finally AFL level. Now is the point where we can further invest into him by giving him AFL gametime.
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Use to buy into that theory but like the Caleb Daniels,Taylors of the afl size shouldn't matter.Its just not Mcbean either.Griff,Elton.Its frustrating.
 
tiger_of_old said:
Use to buy into that theory but like the Caleb Daniels,Taylors of the afl size shouldn't matter.Its just not Mcbean either.Griff,Elton.Its frustrating.
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You're comparing a small, hard and pacey mid with a tall undersized forward and wondering why there's a difference? Do you also wonder why first year rucks can't compete at AFL?

Your logic doesn't work. If you're frustrated it's because you're putting yourself in that position, have some patience.
 
“His overhead ruckwork is very good, but his standout feature is his ability to play as an extra midfielder on the ground, making good decisions with the football and damaging with his possessions." FJ after we drafted him.... has he played any minutes in the ruck in the VFL?
 
Goals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure acts. Seriously this ****ed up line of thinking is why our team is all over the place. It's why natural ball winners like Vlastuin, Conca and Lambert play either forward or back while a seagull in the form of Grigg lines up next to Cotchin who is left with too much responsibility in winning the ball at stoppages and thus is an easy target for the opposition. It's why an elite ball user and one of our cleanest players (Lennon) is playing in Frankston, while another seagull in Brandon Ellis is wasting everyones time with 20m sideways and backwards kicks. It's why Morris is turning the ball over 25m out from his own goal.

Honestly I understand the need for pressure acts but give me a natural footballer who is either capable of winning his own ball or using the ball well, rather than some idiot who runs around like a headless chook on the basis that he provides good pressure even though he is responsible for giving the ball to the opposition in the first place.
 
So Frankston beat us LMAO and McBean kicked one.

I want this kid to play but he does himself no favours lol If our seconds are so bad then what the hell is our recruiting team doing?
 
DrMike said:
You're comparing a small, hard and pacey mid with a tall undersized forward and wondering why there's a difference? Do you also wonder why first year rucks can't compete at AFL?

Your logic doesn't work. If you're frustrated it's because you're putting yourself in that position, have some patience.
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Sorry Doc,This is probably the wrong thread because its not just McBean,But its a symbol of where we are and have been over the past 35yrs.Weather its a tall,small.big,round,Outside the obvious players we don't seem to be able to develop yet other sides have managed to do over the same time frame.Sorry just venting.
 
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