Past #36: Phoenix Spicer - drafted w/ #42 in 2020 ND - delisted end '23 - 12 NM games / 2 NM goals

[prodigalson]

His last 2 games really worry me. Undersized and no desire for contest. In todays game small forwards need to be able to take contested marks and win their own footy, PS can do neither.

 

[r_boy]

The moment when he couldn't pick up the stationary ball on the ground

 

[Roosurgence]

Shouldn't have played today but the criticisms are going a bit over the top here.

The criticisms are fair or please let us know why they aren’t?

It’s been on show for weeks, he actually goes out of his way to avoid any type of contest that will or potentially result in some kind of body contact.

This isn’t anything to do with the amount of games you have played, this is purely a player scared of contact.

I’m not sure how you expect a player to make it in the top level if they are afraid of contact? It’s not touch footy.

I don’t know how his teammates feel, but I know if I was them I wouldn’t want to play footy with the bloke. Putting your body on the line only to watch your teammate shirk virtually every contest.

You would hope the coaches very much sit him down and tell him it’s just not acceptable at this level and that if he wants to get back into the side or even have a career, he very much goes to work and starts competing regardless of any impending contact.

If he can’t do that then he is better of quitting the AFL, because he will never make it.

 

[hellas_johnny]

absolute pus. got a message from my essendon mate asking who he is. mentioned one of the goals where he was goalside but essendon play still pretty much walked around him and that hes lazy, my reply yep

 

[Jasemon]

Criticism of this kid is 100% on point and anyone trying to defend him is not serious.
He should NOT have played today. Patch should lose his job at the end of the season based purely on the fact he decided to bring Spicer back in with the H/S protocols instead of playing Ford, who is 5 times the player Phoenix is.

The fact is that if PS is out there it's 22 against 21 in the opposition's favour.

Being at the ground and watching from the top level, it is blatantly obvious that the opposition have already worked him out, and consider him zero threat. They leave him alone, he is frequently 20 or 30 metres off any kind of opponent. Not because he's footy smart and knows how to lose his opponent, but because the opposition don't take him even remotely seriously. Almost reminds me of the days when the opposition would sit off Jonathan Hay

Jonathan Hay

Age

44

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.1

3star

No current season stats available

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.4

3star

.

He is scared shitless of any form of physical contact and is an absolute liability. I very rarely rip into players, especially young ones, and I don't completely lay the blame at Phoenix's feet because he just shouldn't have been named in the seniors. Simply he's just not ready. And the crazy thing is that so many of our forward entries went to him. I think because our players would look up and nobody would be on him. As soon as the ball went his way however, the opposition would already be closing in and poor Phoenix would just s**t himself. Again, so angry that Ford continues to be left out for this fraud.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

This is harsh, and I don’t blame Phoenix as he doesn’t select himself

But right now he is worst footballer I’ve ever seen put on the North jumper.

 

[big_e]

Of all the pick 42s since 2010, only three have played more than 10 AFL games.

Phoenix Spicer is probably the 35-38th best player in the worst list in the comp and only gets a game because we have more than a dozen unavailable due to injury, suspension and COVID.

It's worth a shot to play guys of this level, particularly when there is really nothing left to lose. You find out good stuff about some, and you prove beyond a doubt that others won't make it.

Phoenix won't make it. It's not his fault, I think he's just not built for it. Perhaps in ten years he'll wonder how things might have gone if he'd been drafted to a different club - probably not much different, if we're being honest.

But calling him "the worst footballer I've ever seen put on a North jumper", a "fraud" and a "soft lump of s**t" is a despicable way to react to someone who takes up about 0.5% of our salary cap, and who, in normal circumstances, would have been playing with plumbers and students at Windy Hill today.

Paying your membership doesn't give you a licence to be a prick.

 

[Jasemon]

Of all the pick 42s since 2010, only three have played more than 10 AFL games.

Phoenix Spicer is probably the 35-38th best player in the worst list in the comp and only gets a game because we have more than a dozen unavailable due to injury, suspension and COVID.

It's worth a shot to play guys of this level, particularly when there is really nothing left to lose. You find out good stuff about some, and you prove beyond a doubt that others won't make it.

Phoenix won't make it. It's not his fault, I think he's just not built for it. Perhaps in ten years he'll wonder how things might have gone if he'd been drafted to a different club - probably not much different, if we're being honest.

But calling him "the worst footballer I've ever seen put on a North jumper", a "fraud" and a "soft lump of s**t" is a despicable way to react to someone who takes up about 0.5% of our salary cap, and who, in normal circumstances, would have been playing with plumbers and students at Windy Hill today.

Paying your membership doesn't give you a licence to be a prick.

We have every right to criticise the players that put on our jumper. I'm not going to apologise to you because you're feeling offended at the vitriol that might come this kids way. Probably it's you that needs to toughen up. To see that kind of effort served up against * no less makes it even worse.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but as I said Phoenix didn't pick himself so again I'll give him that. There are certain non-negotiable that an AFL footballer must show when they set foot onto the turf at a footy ground. One is, that you go when it's your turn. Footy is a physical sport and it's just not in his DNA. Granted we barely have a footballer at the moment who appears capable of holding a tackle, so he's certainly not Robinson Crusoe however his complete lack of physical presence is to put it bluntly embarrassing. Accept it or move on mate.

 

[Merlin007]

I've been through phases of opinion about Phoenix - in his first year of VFL, I didn't know why he was drafted given he rarely touched it, and then when he did, he torched it, leaving me to wonder why on earth he got a contract extension. This year, his contest work at VFL level was much, much improved, as was his disposal efficiency. He's shown some glimpses at AFL, but without being abusive about it, the way he skirts a contest without making a physical contribution is simply not to the standard - say what you like about Mahony, he puts his head over the ball. Unless Phoenix is prepared to go when it's his turn, he won't get past next year.

 

[ferball]

We have every right to criticise the players that put on our jumper. I'm not going to apologise to you because you're feeling offended at the vitriol that might come this kids way. Probably it's you that needs to toughen up. To see that kind of effort served up against * no less makes it even worse.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but as I said Phoenix didn't pick himself so again I'll give him that. There are certain non-negotiable that an AFL footballer must show when they set foot onto the turf at a footy ground. One is, that you go when it's your turn. Footy is a physical sport and it's just not in his DNA. Granted we barely have a footballer at the moment who appears capable of holding a tackle, so he's certainly not Robinson Crusoe however his complete lack of physical presence is to put it bluntly embarrassing. Accept it or move on mate.

Until you called him a fraud everything you said was reasonable.

 

[The acurate one]

This is harsh, and I don’t blame Phoenix as he doesn’t select himself

But right now he is worst footballer I’ve ever seen put on the North jumper.

I did giggle Uncle Leo, and you don't sound that young. So a big call by you.

To me I just see a youngster you feels he doesn't belong at this level. He needs a lot of self belief and then when he plays a fast breaking outside game we will all forget about his faults.

 

[King Corey]

I'm going to stand by this kid. He's an absolute baby in career games, has probably been given a lot of advice to be the outlet option to use his pace and is trying to adjust to the speed and pressure of AFL in an awful team.

His weapons on show vs Richmond didn't just disappear. There was a time you didn't even draw an opinion on kids on < 25 games. I think he has something still.

 

[King Corey]

A little addendum.

Larkey's 1st 2 games - absolutely useless.

Scott Welsh

Scott Welsh

Age

45

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.9

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

2.6

1star

K

2.2

1star

HB

0.4

1star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.2

3star

G

0.2

3star

's 1st 2 games - negative statistics IIRC.

Phoenix is an instinctive type of player trying to learn AFL structure in a side bereft of cohesion and confidence. His output should be viewed with many caveats.

 

[Merlin007]

A little addendum.

Larkey's 1st 2 games - absolutely useless.

Scott Welsh's 1st 2 games - negative statistics IIRC.

Phoenix is an instinctive type of player trying to learn AFL structure in a side bereft of cohesion and confidence. His output should be viewed with many caveats.

I respect the point you make about early career output, which is undoubtedly correct, but the one caveat no club can tolerate is avoiding the contest, and Phoenix did it too many times yesterday. Until that changes, for all his limitations, I'll take Mahony

 

[King Corey]

I respect the point you make about early career output, which is undoubtedly correct, but the one caveat no club can tolerate is avoiding the contest, and Phoenix did it too many times yesterday. Until that changes, for all his limitations, I'll take Mahony

You might be right mate. I'm not particularly into playing player apologist, but he might've had it drummed into him by Noble et al to not get drawn into contests, that we want him outside for his assets etc.

Just spitballing. There is a chance he just shirked it of course.

 

[ferball]

You might be right mate. I'm not particularly into playing player apologist, but he might've had it drummed into him by Noble et al to not get drawn into contests, that we want him outside for his assets etc.

Just spitballing. There is a chance he just shirked it of course.

He looks timid. He just needs to be beaten up a bit in the VFL and realise it doesn't hurt that much.

 

[amaz199]

Can't just write him off this early.

These raw types take time and watching him closely, he can cause a lot of damage when the ball gets out the back.

 

[Hazey1977]

If only there was a small forward available as a free hit in the MSD for a crack at it....

Menzies TOG = 25%
Spice man = 77%
Laz = 83%

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hazey1977]

Can't just write him off this early.

These raw types take time and watching him closely, he can cause a lot of damage when the ball gets out the back.

I was hopeful he'd be good out the back too, but he literally ran away from goal, passed the ball yesterday.

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[El Capuano]

Definitely has traits to work with, but the shying away from contests needs to be stamped out ASAP. His pressure has also declined a lot this past fortnight. Waaaaay too early to write him off though

 

[Billy Not Really]

He’s got next year to do a complete 180 otherwise he doesn’t make it.

He’s made good physical gains in the off-season, but he’ll need to do a lot more than that. People can pot Mahoney all they like, he at least has a crack, goes when its his turn and makes a contest and actually gets his hands on the ball.

Those are bare minimums for being a footy player, if Spicer can’t manage that, he’s off the list its that simple. We’re weirdly persistent with younger players who have shown nothing (McGuiness still on a list somehow) — and yet established players with some miles in the tank we’re ruthless on at times (Boomer, Petrie, Spud, Goldstein, Higgins etc.)

Give me one more solid year from any senior guy who’s shown he isn’t cooked yet over a young player who clogs a list and we waste 3-5 years on developing them with our [sarcasm]world class player development system[/sarcasm]

 

[King Corey]

Definitely has traits to work with, but the shying away from contests needs to be stamped out ASAP. His pressure has also declined a lot this past fortnight. Waaaaay too early to write him off though

This.

Week 1: Plays Richmond - good team game, good individual game.
Week 2: Plays Hawthorn - poor team game, poor individual game.
Week 3: Dropped, late unexpected reprieve, poor team game, poor individual game.

Like I said he's a baby. To expect he would have both the AFL level conditioning and mental game to come in at the last minute and play counter to a team going down in flames is a bit unrealistic.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

I wonder how we'd respond if Spicer was continually chasing possesion of the ball but in doing so, putting himself into situations where he'd be under immediate pressure from tackles on almost every occasion...

...BUT...

...he had developed and finely honed the skill of lifting an arm whilst dropping at the knees, causing him to fall to the ground almost every single time he was tackled, while causing his opponent's grip to slip to above the shoulder.

Would we be happy with that?

I don't think so. We see Weightmans and Ginnivans doing it and we are unhappy that they were getting free kicks for what amounts to putting themselves into situations where they stood very little possibility of escaping with the ball other than the forcing of the high tackle to win a cheap free against an opponent that was making a decent attempt to tackle legally.

I'd love to see Phoenix win a few ground balls and snaffle a couple of goals per game - I would prefer it to be using football ability as opposed to him being a squirmy little cheat though.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

I mean, I don’t know if I’d go as far as to say his game against Richmond was “good”…

 

[Roosurgence]

Until you called him a fraud everything you said was reasonable.

I don’t think the word is that unreasonable. At the moment as far as an AFL Footballer is concerned he is an imposter.

Again as pointed out he doesn’t pick himself, but his efforts or lack there of are actually embarrassing for the player, the club and even the supporters watching it.

At that level it’s a given that you make a contest when it’s your turn, he is now at the stage where he avoids it and even worse runs from it.

He is probably a lovely kid, but let’s get serious, he is a paid professional and as such is open to these criticisms.