Delisted 36.Stewart Crameri (2018 - 2018)

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David the Cat said:
Like you I think Blicavs should be selected. He is versatile and can fill multiple roles if called upon.

However, his B&F was 2 years ago ...2 weeks is a long time in football and things change. Telling Biggy he has NFI because he believes Blicavs is excess to needs is way too harsh. I don't agree with him...but with the influx of new talent, Blitz will need to lift to maintain his spot. That goes for a few others as well.

Winning a B&F doesn't preclude scrutiny of performance.
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I think Blicavs brings something to the table few others do- height AND speed.

The problem is that he hasn't been settled in a position yet.

I think that he would be best as a wingman or midfielder. Imagine, how hard would he be to tag? Name me one tagger in the league who has both the height and speed to go with him.

I think if he is allowed to hold down a spot, and be able to exploit his run, he could be a dangerous weapon for us. So my main criticism is that no-one has worked out how to use him yet.
 
Seeds said:
david teague is a best and fairest winner.
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Then, going by your theory, all B & Fs should be thrown out, because they don't mean anything.

So, are you saying that Ablett, Joel Selwood and Corey Enright didn't deserve the multiple B & Fs that they won?
 
Seeds said:
watts cost a fair bit of money, 31 is nothing to sneeze at and Crameri has performed better than Watts has.
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Also, Watts is lazy, and showed last pre-season that he isn't prepared to do the work necessary to be a top star.
 

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Seeds said:
ablett turns 34 in the first month of the 2018 season. he aint 28-32.
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So what if we hadn't used 19 on Ablett but on a youngster instead, like many here wanted?

People here claim that we will only get two years at best out of Ablett (I am tipping he can go three), but what if we used 19 on a youngster, with all the raps in the world (best junior in his local league, can do this, can do that) and he turns out to not be up to AFL level, and after two years of ordinary performances, we delist him, and no-one else picks him up (meaning that he hasn't lived up to his rep)?

If you sacrifice a player like an Ablett (and remember, this isn't just any player, it is Gary BLOODY Ablett, we are talking about) to get a kid, the kid had BETTER be one of the top three or four in the league down the track, and we need to get ten to twelve good years out of the kid.

It's not like Ablett, fully fit, has lost a step either. We are not getting a shadow of a great. He can still go. I would back a two-time Brownlow winner, multi-MVP, B& F and two-time premiership player over some unproven talent, who may or may not be good. I mean a kid's former junior coach or his parents aren't the most objective judges to go to when asking about a young player ( and I think, many times, players are picked on what everyone says about them, rather than any proven form.)

Crameri, we gave up no-one for, and he is taking a rookie spot. You could make an argument if he cost us a pick, but he costs us little, and might give some value. Worst case scenario, we delist him at the end of the year. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. He might give us nothing, or do a Stewart Dew in the GF.

I think Crameri has more upside than an Aaron Black, and I don't know why we kept Black if he isn't getting games. Maybe his spot on the list should concern you more than Crameri's, who has shown more.
 
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LifeSpan-Void said:
The heavily suppressed optimist in me wants to think this is our Stewart Dew moment, but the other 93% of me finds this to be a vanilla choice.
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He's nothing like dew. Dew was a fat pig who had a little bit of pace and a beautiful left cannon. As we all found out the hard way, dew was the type of player who could change a game in a quarter. Crameri is nothing like that. More like a Mitchell White.
 
Catters 070911 said:
I think Blicavs brings something to the table few others do- height AND speed.

The problem is that he hasn't been settled in a position yet.

I think that he would be best as a wingman or midfielder. Imagine, how hard would he be to tag? Name me one tagger in the league who has both the height and speed to go with him.

I think if he is allowed to hold down a spot, and be able to exploit his run, he could be a dangerous weapon for us. So my main criticism is that no-one has worked out how to use him yet.
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You don’t typically tag blokes that can’t find the ball...
 
Very important for success in 2018 that Crameri plays well.
I believe the addition of his bulk and power is that necessary for team success.
 
Biggy_Boy said:
A B&F in a pretty poor year by recent standards, which I maintain that he was very fortunate to win, isn't a sole determining factor for me as to whether someone belongs in the side in 2018. In fact, I don't think it holds much relevance at all.

More pertinent to me are: what his role in the side is, how he affects the structure and balance of the side, how good he has been recently, and how good he has been when it matters.

He won his B&F playing primarily as a ruck out of necessity because the club had no one else. He then went on to play the third man up role to good effect. With Smith in the side and Stanley as backup, both of whom are far better at performing actual ruck duties, which I consider to be pretty important to premiership aspirations, and the third man up role gone, Blicavs can't be much help in the ruck. Other than that, his roles have been playing through the midfield, sometimes on the wing, sometimes in a defensive role, and he's never really done much there. He isn't a big accumulator, he is rarely able to effectively shut down an influential player, and he doesn't use his size around the ground or drifting up forward to justify how much he gets done for pace. He's tall and slow in a side that is overly tall and slow and yet he does not have a role that someone else couldn't and doesn't do better and nor does his size present as any real asset when he's playing. He impedes ball movement more than any other player in the side, hesitating, missing the first option and taking as long as possible to decide on a target, often stifling the flow of ball movement transitioning from defence to attack and allowing the opposition to set up.

His form for most of 2017 was putrid. He would play through the midfield and do nothing, and then the finals came around and he wilted, just like he did in the 2016, 2014, and 2013 finals, proving himself to be nothing more than a liability. This isn't just me; plenty of objective observers would tell you the same. You don't continue giving players games based on what they did in a previous season (when you weren't a shot for a flag) when they're not performing now. That's how mediocrity sets in.
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I can't see how he gets a regular game either next year if you look purely at outs and ins objectively.
Ablett - in, Crameri - in subject to pre season/fitness and likely at least two of the draftees.
Think we will stick to Henderson and Taylor as talls in defence with smalls/mediums in the pockets and flanks.
Hard to find a spot for him.
 
Turbocat said:
Arh ..my mine requirement/request for this draft was to draft small angry ant types. Sure we all talked about what the club might or might not do would we take this player or that if they dropped..but my want was us to go more for speed and player who were not afraid of contact. So players like Petcucelle etc I certainly mention multiple times. So even if Fogerty is not a player id focused on I cant complain about his selection.

And as players dropped thru the draft Id probably have taken a tall in the first 3 picks someone like McCartin or Woller. All about the next gen , not so much now.

I dont think I have ever said we must use our top picks on KPP's ..only that we had to prepare for a post Hawkins future.

And is 189 cm player a KPP that id have drafted to be our future KPP? No most KPP player tend to be taller.

Now maybe I have forgotten a particular post or expressed something poorly .. but I cant remember ever saying we must use our top picks on KPP.
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Without trawling back there was particular reference to 'we have a need we have to pick them'.

All points taken however.
 

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Catters 070911 said:
I think Blicavs brings something to the table few others do- height AND speed.

The problem is that he hasn't been settled in a position yet.

I think that he would be best as a wingman or midfielder. Imagine, how hard would he be to tag? Name me one tagger in the league who has both the height and speed to go with him.

I think if he is allowed to hold down a spot, and be able to exploit his run, he could be a dangerous weapon for us. So my main criticism is that no-one has worked out how to use him yet.
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Your point is spot on in terms of him needing to find a position or role.
The 3rd man up rule has negated a big benefit of him as a mid and whilst he's played some good games as a mid/tagger type combination he's not consistent enough to hold down such a pivotal spot IMHO. He's not a big bodied extractor like Fyfe/Cripps or Kennedy either so that's not his go. SS is a better tagger and with Jnr back his mid time will be under threat I'd have thought
Whilst he's got elite endurance he's not quick enough to play wing either.
I'd have liked to see him as a roaming CHF a la Nick Riewoldt but we haven't gone that way.
I think we will see him more in defence this year , maybe he's Harrys replacement?
 
nananana catman said:
Without trawling back there was particular reference to 'we have a need we have to pick them'.

All points taken however.
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Nana .. I dont really want to get in a perpetual cycle of recriminations ... if I said that then it was an ordinary post by myself and I probably was glib and posted it without being specific.

Id have chosen slightly different picks but when was the last time anyone picked the sweep with Wells and got every player they wanted. Kelly is the one I wouldn't have taken but he really looks promising so over all Im happy with the group we have taken..my only reservation is that we have not added 1 tall ...but thats less worrysome for me than some others. Gardner and Buzza etc look at least possible with development and if they come good , our drafting will look even more clever.

There were a few talls who would have been very tempting ...Hayes is one that we may look back on an wonder perhaps the way we do with Brundy... or we could look back say ..dodged that bullet. P47 is a bit jaw dropping.. so most clubs must have really disliked his running.

Ironically all 4 taken look like they may be capable of doing something for us in 2018. So many on here were dead set against going to the draft hard and wanted to trade in again for now because "we were in the window". I feel we have basically served both masters , so most should be happy enough .. we drafted a bit for now but hopefully we also get a couple of long term young players.

We are where are now .. and as Im happy enough with the 4 picks taken at the draft , a concession by myself on Crameri as a cheapish rookie is not too hard. I cant see any obvious talls that I might have picked ( i know vdubs likes Harry Nolan)..I might have added Narrier but he wouldn't add to our talls. I hope SC succeeds and gives us 40-50 games and if he does it was cleaver recruiting. At 29 he has only played 99 games so he should not be worn out by any means. As usual time will tell.
 
bph25 said:
Average of 17 disposals and 2.7 goals a game.
Would be border line all Australian with this numbers.
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It’s actually an average of 15.8 disposals. It’s also from a selective sample of eight games, of which the Dogs won five with an average winning margin of 68. In the games before that he barely averaged one goal per game.
 
MacStradbroke said:
So another poster says Gaz is 32 and you feel the need to correct him by saying he is 33. Well done.
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Yes, and all on a thread dedicated to Stewart Crameri.
 
The rabbi said:
Yes, and all on a thread dedicated to Stewart Crameri.
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Thread polluters everywhere.

Right now, you'd assume Crameri is the preferred rookie and one to play the most games of the 2017 intake (minus GAJ.)
 
Spazz Cat said:
Meh. I'm not sold yet until Selwood can play at least 2/3rds of a season and Henderson takes the 1st or 2nd forward every week.
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1st and 2nd forward? You stuck in the 90s? Footy is not a one on one game anymore... Rance played on Otten for most of the grand final. Give me a spell and attempt to follow the trends of the game.
 
lettheboysplay said:
1st and 2nd forward? You stuck in the 90s? Footy is not a one on one game anymore... Rance played on Otten for most of the grand final. Give me a spell and attempt to follow the trends of the game.
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Ok. Take a man and be forced to defend most games instead of being the loose man. (Easiest position in footy)
Hope that's new school enough for you.
 
RedmanWasHere said:
Thread polluters everywhere.

Right now, you'd assume Crameri is the preferred rookie and one to play the most games of the 2017 intake (minus GAJ.)
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You don't draft a 29 year old unless you think he can make an immediate impact. I do see him as depth at the minute but by round 1 he could end up as more than that If he remains healthy. Is his best past him?
 
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