37,111

[NoobPie]

What people are missing in the “it’s only cos of Perth stadium” analysis is that last year was the highest aggregate ever and was ~2k average increase on 2016. Crowds are up slightly on the best year ever for crowds #codeincrisis

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What people are missing in the “it’s only cos of Perth stadium” analysis is that last year was the highest aggregate ever and was ~2k average increase on 2016. Crowds are up slightly on the best year ever for crowds #codeincrisis

Richmond added 163k from their 11 home games to that increase in aggregate of 423k for the whole comp because they finally had some success. Essendon supporters returned to watch their side after fielding a B grade in 2016 because of CAS suspensions and added 187k for their 11 home games to average 50k which is in line with what has been their historical average since the mid 1990's. Both sides have maintained close to those averages for their home games in 2018 at about 1k less than last year.

So in 2017 the other 16 sides increased their combined aggregates by about 73k over 2016, just over 1%. Hardly a stunning result.

The Australian population increases by 1.5% each year so you would expect a 1.5% increase in crowds and TV audience every year, so a 2% increase when its all basically from a new stadium doesn't say much.

The game isn't in crisis but lets have depth to the analysis.

We are a decent distance from getting back to averages of 36.1k to 36.99k of 2007-2010 years even when you counter balance 2 new higher drawing stadiums with the lower drawing 2 new teams and the increase in population.

 

[Rabman]

Richmond added 163k from their 11 home games to that increase in aggregate of 423k for the whole comp because they finally had some success. Essendon supporters returned to watch their side after fielding a B grade in 2016 because of CAS suspensions and added 187k for their 11 home games to average 50k which is in line with what has been their historical average since the mid 1990's. Both sides have maintained close to those averages for their home games in 2018 at about 1k less than last year.

So in 2017 the other 16 sides increased their combined aggregates by about 73k over 2016, just over 1%. Hardly a stunning result.

The Australian population increases by 1.5% each year so you would expect a 1.5% increase in crowds and TV audience every year, so a 2% increase when its all basically from a new stadium doesn't say much.

The game isn't in crisis but lets have depth to the analysis.

We are a decent distance from getting back to averages of 36.1k to 36.99k of 2007-2010 years even when you counter balance 2 new higher drawing stadiums with the lower drawing 2 new teams and the increase in population.

Lets remember 2007-10 was a 16 team competition to the 18 we have now. GWS and Gold Caost have a had a large impact in the decrease of average crowds.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Lets remember 2007-10 was a 16 team competition to the 18 we have now. GWS and Gold Caost have a had a large impact in the decrease of average crowds.

Lets read my last sentence again.

At the new stadiums Adelaide are averaging 10k more than 2010, Port 15k, WCE 18k and Freo 8k, so add that to GCS' 13k ie 10+15 and GWS 10.5K ie 18+8 and its not that much different to the 36k average.

 

[Our Game]

On the back of Eagles and Freo fans at Optus. Most crowds are down.

And the is the truth. So I woudnt be raving about the crowds this year Take out the extra at Optus Stadium and put in last years crowds at Subi and see how the crowds are tracking.
Many Melbourne crowds have to say the least have been disappointing.
People raving that the crowds have improved massively this year are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[McCrann]

Thanks Perth Stadium.

Given this thread was started before Rd 18 started ie 16 games played by all sides

WCE first 8 home games in 2017 was 301,748 - 8 home games in 2018 is 425,696 Difference = 123,948

WCE had the home Derby Rd 6 in 2017 40,836 but in 2018 in Rd 6 it was Freo's home game 56,521

Freo's first 8 home games in 2017 was 264,050 - 8 home games in 2018 is 336,210 Difference = 72,160
Doesn't include away game to Gold Coast at Perth Stadium in Rd 3.

Total Perth Stadium increase in crowds over Subi after 16 games = 196,108

Total crowds after 16 rounds in 2018 ie 144 games = 4,996,006
Total crowds after 16 rounds in 2017 using 2017 average ie 144 x 34,010 = 4,897, 440
Difference = 98,566

Crowds around rest of Oz therefore are down by 196,108 - 98,566 = 97,542 on average after everyone has played 16 games.

Collingwood's home game average in 2017 was 46,815 in 2018 its 52,134 there is another 45,000 increase
Richmond's home game average in 2017 was 55,958 in 2018 its 54,895 that is a decrease of 8,000

Cant be arsed working out the effect of Gold Coast's and all their away "home" games whilst Cararra was unavailable after the Comm Games, but I dont think its that much.

No denying the crowd increase is due to the new Perth Stadium. But that's a boost that's been crying out to happen for at least 15 years!

Being able to smash through 7 million for a Home & Away season would still be some achievement - that's greater crowds than A-League, Super Rugby & NRL put together (Australian team home games). You can probably add Big Bash to that as well. Maybe even Australia Home ODIs, Twenty20s & Tests... Also NBL no doubt. Netball League. Major tennis tournaments might be a stretch...

 

[McCrann]

Richmond added 163k from their 11 home games to that increase in aggregate of 423k for the whole comp because they finally had some success. Essendon supporters returned to watch their side after fielding a B grade in 2016 because of CAS suspensions and added 187k for their 11 home games to average 50k which is in line with what has been their historical average since the mid 1990's. Both sides have maintained close to those averages for their home games in 2018 at about 1k less than last year.

So in 2017 the other 16 sides increased their combined aggregates by about 73k over 2016, just over 1%. Hardly a stunning result.

The Australian population increases by 1.5% each year so you would expect a 1.5% increase in crowds and TV audience every year, so a 2% increase when its all basically from a new stadium doesn't say much.

The game isn't in crisis but lets have depth to the analysis.

We are a decent distance from getting back to averages of 36.1k to 36.99k of 2007-2010 years even when you counter balance 2 new higher drawing stadiums with the lower drawing 2 new teams and the increase in population.

The other thing I would add is, when there is an economic downturn in Australia, who do you think (in terms of sporting competitions) is going to bear the brunt of it?

If I had to rank the comps AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL, BBL, Super Rugby by who would bear the brunt of it from Most to Least I'd do the ranking like this.

1. NBL (Fold?)
2. A-League (Stuffed)
3. NRL (I could see teams going under)
4. Super Rugby (They've already trimmed a team)
5. AFL (Plenty of members)
6. BBL (Plenty of fat)

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The other thing I would add is, when there is an economic downturn in Australia, who do you think (in terms of sporting competitions) is going to bear the brunt of it?

If I had to rank the comps AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL, BBL, Super Rugby by who would bear the brunt of it from Most to Least I'd do the ranking like this.

1. NBL (Fold?)
2. A-League (Stuffed)
3. NRL (I could see teams going under)
4. Super Rugby (They've already trimmed a team)
5. AFL (Plenty of members)
6. BBL (Plenty of fat)

If you are talking crowds you gotta look at ticket prices both at the gate and season tickets. The most expensive sports will cop it most relatively speaking rather than absolutely. People still want to go out and watch sport, so the cheaper alternatives will do better.

If you are talking $$$ from all sources, memberships, corporates and TV $$ shared by all then I'd probably swap 3 and 4 on that list.

 

[Rabman]

Lets read my last sentence again.

At the new stadiums Adelaide are averaging 10k more than 2010, Port 15k, WCE 18k and Freo 8k, so add that to GCS' 13k ie 10+15 and GWS 10.5K ie 18+8 and its not that much different to the 36k average.

Noted, I do think though we forget how high of a level we operate at. The EPL, Bundesliga and the NFL are the only competitions in the world that have a superior average attendance to us and the way they do there attendance figures is quite dodgy.

 

[McCrann]

If you are talking crowds you gotta look at ticket prices both at the gate and season tickets. The most expensive sports will cop it most relatively speaking rather than absolutely. People still want to go out and watch sport, so the cheaper alternatives will do better.

If you are talking $$$ from all sources, memberships, corporates and TV $$ shared by all then I'd probably swap 3 and 4 on that list.

Perhaps. As well as greater strategic "depth" the strong membership base and the fact the AFL is a 1 country sport gives the AFL greater flexibility to deal with economic downturns than rivals.

I think one thing the AFL is (to an extent) relying on is that the Gold Coast Titans will get wound up during the next downturn... That would certainly leave the Suns looking fairly good despite all their troubles if the AFL can outlast the NRL on the Gold Coast.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Noted, I do think though we forget how high of a level we operate at. The EPL, Bundesliga and the NFL are the only competitions in the world that have a superior average attendance to us and the way they do there attendance figures is quite dodgy.

No professional sport is in the league of the NFL. The Bundesliga are like the #2 behind Bradman, more than 60% (of their own average) behind the #1.

I dont know what these 3 leagues do that are "dodgy." I know in Major League Baseball that one league counts attendance the other league counts tickets sold. NFL counts attendance.

Some of the 10 and 12 team conferences in college football in the USA have average attendance in the NFL level or more, but these figures aren't readily available. s**t the Big Ten Conference has 3 teams with 100k+ stadiums and the Southeast Conference has 4 teams with 100k+ stadiums. Total NCAA Division 1 Football averages over the 130 schools in 10 conferences, is over 40,000.

Euro soccer suffers a bit crowd wise because of relegation and promotion and you get teams promoted with small stadium capacity. In the Italian League you had a team that made it to Serie A a few years ago that had a stadium capacity about 6,000. La Liga last year had a team with a 7k stadium and they played 19 home games there. And Euro soccer teams tend to own their stadiums so they have to find the $$ to upgrade them not depend on governments doing it for them so they dont always expand stadium capacity to meet demand.

Having 2 stadiums in Melbourne for 9 teams have helped the V/AFL crowd averages go from 25-28k averages to 30k+ since 1998. Having a 100k capacity stadium also hopes. Outside half a dozen or so college football teams, there aren't too many 100k or near 100k stadiums ( like Barcelona's Cap Nou 99.3k) around the world.

From what I have been able to work out over the years, looking at the major codes world wide, that the Argentinean Primiera League is the closest to AFL in the fact that one city provides half the teams in the league. Buenos Aires provides between 13 to 17 teams of the 28 team league, which used to be 30 teams.

Greater Buenos Aires is around 13m people in a country of 44m. In 2017-18 they provided 15 of the 28 teams. They had 3 stadiums less than 20,000, 3 stadiums around 25,000 and 2 in the 30,000's. The other 7 stadiums are between 45k and 61k. 9 of the other 13 stadiums around Argentina are under 35,000. They only average a bit over 16,000. If all the 9 Melbourne teams played at their own home grounds, that they had to pay for upgrades, the average would be back to around 25,000 and closer to what happens in Argentina and like what happened pre ground rationalization in Melbourne. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Argentine_Primera_División

You gotta give it to Oakley and co. who coped a lot of flake for rationaliszing grounds starting in the late 1980's / early 1990's and getting rid of suburban grounds. New modern facilities, continually updated by the carrot of sports tourism, in an easy to access centralized transport system city has helped Melbourne provide world class powerhouse attendances. The other states are getting great big new stadiums paid for by governments.

Italy is an example of what not to do re attendances. They used to average 33k to 38k in the 1980's. They modernized a lot of grounds for the 1990 WC, there was a dip in crowds during the construction phase and post 1990 WC their crowds peaked in 1992 with a 34k average. Its now averages in the 22k to 24k range.

Clubs haven't invested in stadiums as the game has become a TV game re $$$ and the big clubs sign their own TV deals, governments don't see the sports tourism benefit like in Oz, the facilities haven't kept up to date so people stay home and watch it on the box, there is violence and racism in the crowds, its not female friendly, and you get some lock out games because of the violence bullshit, which doesn't help with attendance figures.

 

[Rabman]

No professional sport is in the league of the NFL. The Bundesliga are like the #2 behind Bradman, more than 60% (of their own average) behind the #1.

I dont know what these 3 leagues do that are "dodgy." I know in Major League Baseball that one league counts attendance the other league counts tickets sold. NFL counts attendance.

Some of the 10 and 12 team conferences in college football in the USA have average attendance in the NFL level or more, but these figures aren't readily available. s**t the Big Ten Conference has 3 teams with 100k+ stadiums and the Southeast Conference has 4 teams with 100k+ stadiums. Total NCAA Division 1 Football averages over the 130 schools in 10 conferences, is over 40,000.

Euro soccer suffers a bit crowd wise because of relegation and promotion and you get teams promoted with small stadium capacity. In the Italian League you had a team that made it to Serie A a few years ago that had a stadium capacity about 6,000. La Liga last year had a team with a 7k stadium and they played 19 home games there. And Euro soccer teams tend to own their stadiums so they have to find the $$ to upgrade them not depend on governments doing it for them so they dont always expand stadium capacity to meet demand.

Having 2 stadiums in Melbourne for 9 teams have helped the V/AFL crowd averages go from 25-28k averages to 30k+ since 1998. Having a 100k capacity stadium also hopes. Outside half a dozen or so college football teams, there aren't too many 100k or near 100k stadiums ( like Barcelona's Cap Nou 99.3k) around the world.

From what I have been able to work out over the years, looking at the major codes world wide, that the Argentinean Primiera League is the closest to AFL in the fact that one city provides half the teams in the league. Buenos Aires provides between 13 to 17 teams of the 28 team league, which used to be 30 teams.

Greater Buenos Aires is around 13m people in a country of 44m. In 2017-18 they provided 15 of the 28 teams. They had 3 stadiums less than 20,000, 3 stadiums around 25,000 and 2 in the 30,000's. The other 7 stadiums are between 45k and 61k. 9 of the other 13 stadiums around Argentina are under 35,000. They only average a bit over 16,000. If all the 9 Melbourne teams played at their own home grounds, that they had to pay for upgrades, the average would be back to around 25,000 and closer to what happens in Argentina and like what happened pre ground rationalization in Melbourne. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_Argentine_Primera_División

You gotta give it to Oakley and co. who coped a lot of flake for rationaliszing grounds starting in the late 1980's / early 1990's and getting rid of suburban grounds. New modern facilities, continually updated by the carrot of sports tourism, in an easy to access centralized transport system city has helped Melbourne provide world class powerhouse attendances. The other states are getting great big new stadiums paid for by governments.

Italy is an example of what not to do re attendances. They used to average 33k to 38k in the 1980's. They modernized a lot of grounds for the 1990 WC, there was a dip in crowds during the construction phase and post 1990 WC their crowds peaked in 1992 with a 34k average. Its now averages in the 22k to 24k range.

Clubs haven't invested in stadiums as the game has become a TV game, governments don't see the sports tourism benefit like in Oz, the facilities haven't kept up to date so people stay home and watch it on the box, there is violence and racism in the crowds, its not female friendly, and you get some lock out games because of the violence bullshit, which doesn't help with attendance figures.

Still think there's a place for princes park and Waverley as boutique venues for both Carlton and Hawthorn/St.Kilda. Waverley's average attendances were still strong by the end, impressive considering it never got a major upgrade. I know the English premier league base there crowds on tickets sold not the actual people in the ground, plenty of articles on this with Arsenal and Man United being some of the worse offenders.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-deliberately-misleading-fans-fake-9810393

 

[Mcarcherey]

What difference would it really make to the average footy fan if the AFL did fudge the figures?

moving teams to tasmania if their fans don't turn up....

 

[Damon_3388]

I know the English premier league base there crowds on tickets sold not the actual people in the ground

Pretty much every sporting league and entertainment venue does this, including the AFL.

 

[NoobPie]

Pretty much every sporting league and entertainment venue does this, including the AFL.

I am almost certain the AFL does not do this.

 

[Rabman]

Pretty much every sporting league and entertainment venue does this, including the AFL.

Adelaide pretty much sell out most of there games this year yet never post attendances at the capacity, maybe GWS do it but i'm sure no other team in the league does.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The Australian population increases by 1.5% each year so you would expect a 1.5% increase in crowds and TV audience every year [N0]

2018 crowds are well down, on a per capita basis, cf the 1970's in Melb., Adelaide & Perth.

Melb. in 1970 had a population of c. 2,300,000 -now about 4,870,000. The VFL was averaging about 131,000 per H & A game round, plus the VFA was averaging c. 25,000 pw. Perth's population since 1970 has tripled to 2,100,000, Adelaide is up by c.50% The WAFL & SANFL average weekly crowds were very impressive on a per capita basis -IIRC, c. 35,000 pw.
Facilities at most games then were appalling -mainly standing room, little cover from the rain, toilet blocs primitive (putting it mildly). Melb. games not centrally located/difficult to attend with public transport (unlike now).

The game now is often an ugly, congested, scrappy low scoring mess. It is a very common sight to see 32 or more players in half the ground. This is not the essence of AF. There are now an average of 140 tackles in total per game -in the 80's, it was about 40 tackles in total per game.

There have been public criticisms of low scoring tackleball in AFL since 2005 ( Demetriou re Paul Roos' Sydney low scoring, stoppages style). We are close to record numbers of stoppages in 2018.

In reality, AF authorities have on many occasions in the past attempted to introduce a more attractive, free-flowing, attacking game style. This started in 1874, when a player could no longer simply hold onto the ball when tackled, causing stacks on the mill, and prolonged stoppages...sounds familiar to today's ugly sh*t we are forced to endure. AF was never meant to look like rugby.

I don't know if TV ratings now are also down on per capita terms. I suspect they would be. By the mid 60's, TV VFL replays were on all 4 stations in Melb. concurrently for a short period.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

2018 crowds are well down, on a per capita basis, cf the 1970's in Melb., Adelaide & Perth.

Melb. in 1970 had a population of c. 2,300,000 -now about 4,870,000. The VFL was averaging about 131,000 per H & A game, plus the VFA was averaging c. 25,000 pw. Perth's population since 1970 has tripled to 2,100,000, Adelaide is up by c.50% The WAFL & SANFL average weekly crowds were very impressive on a per capita basis -IIRC, c. 35,000 pw.
Facilities at most games then were appalling -mainly standing room, little cover from the rain, toilet blocs primitive (putting it mildly). Melb. games not centrally located/diificult to attend with public transport (unlike now).

The game now is often an ugly, congested, scrappy low scoring mess. It is a very common sight to see 32 or more players in half the ground. This is not the essence of AF. There are now an average of 140 tackles in total per game -in the 80's, it was about 40 tackles in total per game.

There have been public criticisms of low scoring tackleball AFL since 2005 (Paul Roos' Sydney style). We are close to record numbers of stoppages in 2018.

In reality, AF authorities have on many occasions in the past attempted to introduce a more attractive, free-flowing, attacking game style. This started in 1874, when a player could no longer simply hold onto the ball when tackled, causing stacks on the mill, and prolonged stoppages...sounds familiar to today's ugly sh*t we are forced to endure. AF was never meant to look like rugby.

I don't know if TV ratings are also down on per capita terms. I suspect they would be. In the 60's, TV VFL replays were on 3 stations, IIRC.

There weren't much alternatives in the 1970's. Shops were shut on a Saturday. Black and white TV, max 30 minute replays of games. SANFL crowds peaked in 1972 on per game average and aggregate total in 1974. I put the numbers in this post back in 2009 on the Port board
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/crowd-discussion-out-of-bock-thread.570536/#post-14331703

People weren't going to put up with the bullshit facilities. The oldies who had been thru a depression, and/or a war, and/or post war rationalisation might have, but younger people said stuff this I'm not spending all game standing out in the rain. Society changes. We want the latest conveniences. You gotta deal with it if you are a sports administrator.

 

[BringBackTorps]

There weren't much alternatives in the 1970's. Shops were shut on a Saturday. Black and white TV, max 30 minute replays of games. SANFL crowds peaked in 1972 on per game average and aggregate total in 1974. I put the numbers in this post back in 2009 on the Port board
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/crowd-discussion-out-of-bock-thread.570536/#post-14331703

People weren't going to put up with the bullshit facilities. The oldies who had been thru a depression, and/or a war, and/or post war rationalisation might have, but younger people said stuff this I'm not spending all game standing out in the rain. Society changes. We want the latest conveniences. You gotta deal with it if you are a sports administrator.

Thank you for this insightful information.
Do you know where it is possible to obtain SANFL H & A and Finals crowds prior to 1962, to the early 1900's? And WAFL crowds prior to 1987?

It is extraordinary that the SANFL (playing 5 matches pw) in 1972 had an average round H & A crowd of 46,951 -& season total of 1,163,196. Adelaide then had a population of c.825,000. And for many years in the 60's and 70's, averaged over 40,000 per match.

We have also lost the fan appeal/hysteria of glamour full forwards kicking bags of goals on a regular basis; and the much anticipated one-on-one contests.
The current Administrators of our game have many failures.

IIRC, shops were open on Friday nights, or sat. mornings, in the 70's -similar to today. I don't believe it is all-weekend shopping today that has resulted in today's much lower per capita crowds.
Elite AF today is a much less exciting "product" to watch. We have the ugly tackling/stacks on the mill of RL & RU, combined with the incessantly boring & mindless keepings-off (ie kicking backwards & sideways to a non-contest) of soccer. To make our AFL experience more exciting(sic), at least our wise AFL leaders have given us some rock music, & PA announcements -the game was sufficient excitement in previous eras.
Admittedly, there were also some poor games previously, especially when affected by a greasy ball, wind etc -they degenerated into ugly , kick-to-kick to (small) packs, just hacking the ball. The one-on-one contests, though, often enlivened these dull affairs.

You are correct that GWS & GC have had a significant effect on reducing the current AFL H & A crowd averages -a lower AFL average was inevitable. The period pre 2010 is still poor, on a per capita basis.
In NSW & Qld., at AFL & GR levels, the game is growing strongly. ACT is recovering somewhat, after losing its title as the main code to RL in the late 80's. AF dominates the NT.

Edit:

My numbers above are for the average Round

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Thank you for this insightful information.
Do you know where it is possible to obtain SANFL H & A and Finals crowds prior to 1962, to the early 1900's? And WAFL crowds prior to 1987?

The old fullpointsfooty.net site had some but not all crowd info. This site took them over and they have crowds for the SANFL for each game from 1977
https://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/sanfl/107/premiership+season/3/3/1977

and for WAFL they go back to 1934
https://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/wafl/129/premiership+season/10/10/1934

You might want to write to them.

It is extraordinary that the SANFL (playing 5 matches pw) in 1972 had an average H & A crowd average of 46,951 -& season total of 1,163,196. Adelaide then had a population of c.825,000. And for many years in the 60's and 70's, averaged over 40,000 per match.

That's 40,000 per round not match .

We have also lost the fan appeal/hysteria of glamour full forwards kicking bags of goals on a regular basis; and the much anticipated one-on-one contests.
The current Administrators of our game have many failures.

Yep if I could bring back one thing it would be the 100 goals a year power forwards. For me, peak of watching AFL footy from a purely entertainment point of view, not worrying about how my team went, was mid 1990's to late 1990's say 1993-1998 seasons. My team wasn't playing in the AFL until 1997 so I didnt really barrack for anyone and living in Sydney from 1992, my first match at the SCG I watched when I moved there, was the 1st of their 26 in a row losses, so for the next 18 years I mainly went to watch good footy rather than barrack hard for the Swans or Brisbane (lived there for 3 years) each second week. Only got to a few Port games in each of those years, usually from 2 to 4 + finals.

3 of the 5 x 1,000+ goal kickers in Ablett, Lockett and Dunstall were playing in that period. Ablett was a human highlight reel. Then you had other big goal kicking forwards Summich, Modra, kicked a ton Longmire missed out by a couple of goals, Lloyd's career started, big strong goal kicking CHF's who kicked 70-80 goals like Carey, Loewe, Kernahan, Sav Rcca, Brownless, Lyon, Richo etc. You had the nut case fullbacks trying to stop them. The players were starting to become full time so it was played at a decent speed and the game wasn't as much a possession game like today is where superior fitness being more valued over superior foot skills.

 

[Rabman]

Thank you for this insightful information.
Do you know where it is possible to obtain SANFL H & A and Finals crowds prior to 1962, to the early 1900's? And WAFL crowds prior to 1987?

It is extraordinary that the SANFL (playing 5 matches pw) in 1972 had an average H & A crowd average of 46,951 -& season total of 1,163,196. Adelaide then had a population of c.825,000. And for many years in the 60's and 70's, averaged over 40,000 per match.

We have also lost the fan appeal/hysteria of glamour full forwards kicking bags of goals on a regular basis; and the much anticipated one-on-one contests.
The current Administrators of our game have many failures.

IIRC, shops were open on Friday nights, or sat. mornings, in the 70's -similar to today. I don't believe it is all-weekend shopping today that has resulted in today's much lower per capita crowds.
Elite AF today is a much less exciting "product" to watch. We have the ugly tackling/stacks on the mil of RL & RU, combined with the incessantly boring & mindless keepings-off (ie kicking backwards & sideways to a non-contest) of soccer. To make our AFL experience more exciting(sic), at least our wise AFL leaders have given us some rock music, & PA announcements -the game was sufficient excitement in previous eras.
Admittedly, there were also some poor games previously, especially when affected by a greasy ball, wind etc -they degenerated into ugly , kick-to-kick to (small) packs, just hacking the ball. The one-on-one contests, though, often enlivened these dull affairs.

You are correct that GWS & GC have had a significant effect on reducing the current AFL H & A crowd averages -a lower AFL average was inevitable. The period pre 2010 is still poor, on a per capita basis.

The 1924 SANFL GF had an attendance of 44,345. Adelaide's Population at the time was around 250,000.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

IIRC, shops were open on Friday nights, or sat. mornings, in the 70's -similar to today. I don't believe it is all-weekend shopping today that has resulted in today's much lower per capita crowds.
Elite AF today is a much less exciting "product" to watch.

There was a vast difference all around Oz in 1970, compared to 1979. The different markets changed at different times around Australia. I remember as a real young kid shops shut at 12 on a Saturday, but by 1979 they were open all day.

Shopping isnt the only reason crowds have fallen, but there were fewer things to do in 1970 or 1975 than today, and working in retail on Saturday affects crowds today. Why do you reckon 7 don't produce any Saturday arvo games anymore? They dont rate as people have so many other things to do. Any game between 2017-22 TV deal you see on 7 on a Saturday arvo during home and away part of the season is produced by Fox Footy and shown on 7 under the home market rule.

 

[BringBackTorps]

The 1924 SANFL GF had an attendance of 44,345. Adelaide's Population at the time was around 250,000.[Per capita, possibly a world record for a major city sporting event?]

I once believed that Tasmanians were, per capita, the biggest AF fanatics. In 1970, the TFL GF in Hobart, between Clarence and New Norfolk, had a crowd of 24,413 at Nth Hobart Oval. Hobart's population then was about 145,000.

Prof. G. Blainey said that an 1886 crowd at the Lake Oval, Sth Melb., between Sth. Melb. vs. Geelong attracted a "world record football crowd...of about 34,000...". The exact figure is unknown -the crowd destroyed the wooden fence around the oval with crow bars, & invaded it.
Melb. then had a population of about 330,000

Perhaps SA could claim the title of the biggest AF fanatics?

Do you know a source for SANFL H & A crowds & Finals back to c.1900 (pre 1962)?

 

[Rabman]

I once believed that Tasmanians were, per capita, the biggest AF fanatics. In 1970, the TFL GF in Hobart, between Clarence and New Norfolk, had a crowd of 24,413 at Nth Hobart Oval. Hobart's population then was about 145,000.

Prof. G. Blainey said that an 1886 crowd at the Lake Oval, Sth Melb., between Sth. Melb. vs. Geelong attracted a "world record football crowd...of about 34,000...". The exact figure is unknown -the crowd destroyed the wooden fence around the oval with crow bars, & invaded it.
Melb. then had a population of about 330,000

Perhaps SA could claim the title of the biggest AF fanatics?

Do you know a source for SANFL H & A crowds & Finals back to c.1900 (pre 1962)?

this will give u data from 1900 to the present about SANFL crowds, you'll only be able to get finals crowds with a splattering of H/A crowds. https://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/sanfl/107/premiership+season/3/3/1900

 

[BringBackTorps]

Shopping isnt the only reason crowds have fallen, but there were fewer things to do in 1970 or 1975 than today[Apart from computer games, what are these "new" things?]

The fact that people can shop 7 days a week (for many years) is a reason that shopping is not a reason that fewer fans per capita are going to games (ie it is so easy now to do your shopping, and go to an AFL game if you are so inclined).

THe AFL GF & Melb. Cup, both on afternoons, still attract very big TV Ratings. Shopping doesn't appear to be a distraction.

The recent superb stadium facilitities & amenity should, arguably, have led to higher per capita crowds today (especially for females, kids & elderly fans).