Player Watch #37: Connor Menadue

Phar Ace

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I freely admit I’m not Connor’s biggest fan but he was wonderful on Sunday night and does not deserve to be dropped on that performance.

Let’s give him another game against Hawthorn at the very least and see if he can back it up!

Even though I’m not a fan I still want to see the guy succeed.
Same. I'm hoping against Hawthorn he can be one player capable creating a couple of intercepts. In Fox they mentioned Hawks always win with certain amount of uncontested mark. Was it 130plus? Counter, they always lose when below 70? Everyone knows that's their game right there. Kick to spread the defence until it breaks. Connor showed he's capable of breaking that up.
 

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Wanted to put this in the autopsy thread v Adelaide but it's locked.

Out: Menadue (never to play again)
In: whoever

Just can't believe he keeps getting selected.
 

Meteoric Rise

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Wanted to put this in the autopsy thread v Adelaide but it's locked.

Out: Menadue (never to play again)
In: whoever

Just can't believe he keeps getting selected.
Harsh I think, he has shown some good improvement as has been mentioned in detail in the reserves coach's notes. Never going to be a pack crasher is he, but he offers a couple of things the list probably needs:

- tallish(as in very comfortably above the 6 foot range) half back/winger/running player, we have maybe him, Markov, Macintosh, Naish, Turner as outside runners in that type of height range. All of those have clear limitations either in skill, strength, decision making or experience at this stage.

- if you compile a list of players who have played say 50+ matches AFL/VFL combined with mature bodies clearly outside our best 25 or so you get Weller, Townsend, Butler, Graham, and that is about it and the last two are very close to our best team and the first two are almost certainly for the chop. You normally need some of these type of players for the depths of winter or bad injury runs etc.

The other thing is he is a finer frame, and these guys tend to take a little longer to be able to cope playing against big AFL bodies. It could be due to contractual obligations to the likes of Butler and Markov Richmond needs to delist and re-rookie Menadue, or trade him, but I doubt he is outright delisted. Certainly if you spilled the list some contracted players players might find themselves behind him in the queue for list spots. So I don't think you will get your wish of not seeing Menadue playing for the Richmond senior team again. Neither you should in my opinion.
 

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Harsh I think, he has shown some good improvement as has been mentioned in detail in the reserves coach's notes. Never going to be a pack crasher is he, but he offers a couple of things the list probably needs:

- tallish(as in very comfortably above the 6 foot range) half back/winger/running player, we have maybe him, Markov, Macintosh, Naish, Turner as outside runners in that type of height range. All of those have clear limitations either in skill, strength, decision making or experience at this stage.

- if you compile a list of players who have played say 50+ matches AFL/VFL combined with mature bodies clearly outside our best 25 or so you get Weller, Townsend, Butler, Graham, and that is about it and the last two are very close to our best team and the first two are almost certainly for the chop. You normally need some of these type of players for the depths of winter or bad injury runs etc.

The other thing is he is a finer frame, and these guys tend to take a little longer to be able to cope playing against big AFL bodies. It could be due to contractual obligations to the likes of Butler and Markov Richmond needs to delist and re-rookie Menadue, or trade him, but I doubt he is outright delisted. Certainly if you spilled the list some contracted players players might find themselves behind him in the queue for list spots. So I don't think you will get your wish of not seeing Menadue playing for the Richmond senior team again. Neither you should in my opinion.
Out of contract at the end of the year. 38 games (to date) in five seasons says he is definitely on the chopping block.

2015 - played five games in a row.
2016 - 14 games in three spells, including the first nine of the season.
2017 - nine games in two spells, including seven in a row.
2018 - five games in three spells, including three consecutive.
2019 - sixth game tomorrow night, has already been dropped twice this season. With our injury list!

Doesn't get enough of it, doesn't hit the scoreboard. Have never seen him be particularly brave, although that may just be situational.

Upside: fast.
 

richoplzbreed

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Can’t believe this cat keeps getting a game!!! Bolton goes back does everything right, menadue as usual does sweet fa and gets promoted. Apparently he can run??? Wtf when has he ever backed him self in and ran his full measure or taken a bounce? Disgusting selection
 

Meteoric Rise

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Out of contract at the end of the year. 38 games (to date) in five seasons says he is definitely on the chopping block.

2015 - played five games in a row.
2016 - 14 games in three spells, including the first nine of the season.
2017 - nine games in two spells, including seven in a row.
2018 - five games in three spells, including three consecutive.
2019 - sixth game tomorrow night, has already been dropped twice this season. With our injury list!

Doesn't get enough of it, doesn't hit the scoreboard. Have never seen him be particularly brave, although that may just be situational.

Upside: fast.
Any view on my points about the scarcity of players with a similar height/position and experience/ranking profile on the list? Don't you need a few mature bodied, 4-5 years+ in the system, low salary types sitting outside your best 25 at any given time for ready made replacements when developing players are not suitable for the assignment? If the answer to this is yes, then who are you filling these places with in preference to Menadue?
 

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Any view on my points about the scarcity of players with a similar height/position and experience/ranking profile on the list? Don't you need a few mature bodied, 4-5 years+ in the system, low salary types sitting outside your best 25 at any given time for ready made replacements when developing players are not suitable for the assignment? If the answer to this is yes, then who are you filling these places with in preference to Menadue?
Does Marlion Pickett fit the bill?
 

Meteoric Rise

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Does Marlion Pickett fit the bill?
Yes for now. But he seems as likely as not to end up inside the best 22 to me, and therefore, demanding a bigger contract. It just seems to me there are posters here who want to delist every player showing any sign of not being in the best 25 or so. But all clubs seem to have some of these types on their lists. At any given time you are going to have your best 25(I have found 24 actually on our list who currently look locked into our best setup when fit,) plus:

- normally about 6 or 8 new draftees/rookies from the last two drafts(on our list this would be only Naish, Collier-Dawkins, Turner, English, Coleman-Jones, Miller) who haven't yet made your best 25 yet,

- maybe a few carryover small/medium types who are slow developers but show good signs of being best 25 players(Egg-Smith, Bolton)

- 3-4 ruck/key position projects a bit older than that, who you are still hopeful will make your best 25(on our list Moore, Chol, Garthwaite, Soldo)

- a small handful who seem to drop in an out of your best 25 but may be outside it now(Butler, Graham, Short)

Which takes us to 39 players. Right now, we have another 6 kicking around, Aarts, Pickett, Menadue, Markov, Weller, Townsend. Pickett I would say the club is realistically hoping steps into the top 25. The others, whilst not written off from being top 25 players are not seen as likely to make it. The club actively rookied Aarts, Townsend, Weller this year, mature players on minimum money, and it seems to me they would not have expected any of them to go into the top 25. My question to others is - don't you need a group of these players on your list at any given time? Mature bodies who cost you little and can step in during an injury crisis or on wet days or to fill a very specific role. And of this group of players, ok each year you will cut some, but don't you always want a couple you keep on the list for 6-10 years as they give you a known source of crisis replacements? And might a player like Menadue fit this description? Or are Menadue and Markov more in the Egg-Smith and Bolton category above? Or am I wrong, and ALL players should be cut as soon as it is apparent they will not make your best 25 at any foreseeable point now or in the future, so you can try to get another Kane Lambert in?
 
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Dr Tigris

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Yes for now. But he seems as likely as not to end up inside the best 22 to me, and therefore, demanding a bigger contract. It just seems to me there are posters here who want to delist every player showing any sign of not being in the best 25 or so. But all clubs seem to have some of these types on their lists. At any given time you are going to have your best 25(I have found 24 actually on our list who currently look locked into our best setup when fit,) plus:

- normally about 6 or 8 new draftees/rookies from the last two drafts(on our list this would be only Naish, Collier-Dawkins, Turner, English, Coleman-Jones, Miller) who haven't yet made your best 25 yet,

- maybe a few carryover small/medium types who are slow developers but show good signs of being best 25 players(Egg-Smith, Bolton)

- 3-4 ruck/key position projects a bit older than that, who you are still hopeful will make your best 25(on our list Moore, Chol, Garthwaite, Soldo)

- a small handful who seem to drop in an out of your best 25 but may be outside it now(Butler, Graham, Short)

Which takes us to 39 players. Right now, we have another 6 kicking around, Aarts, Pickett, Menadue, Markov, Weller, Townsend. Pickett I would say the club is realistically hoping steps into the top 25. The others, whilst not written off from being top 25 players are not seen as likely to make it. The club actively rookied Aarts, Townsend, Weller this year, mature players on minimum money, and it seems to me they would not have expected any of them to go into the top 25. My question to others is - don't you need a group of these players on your list at any given time? Mature bodies who cost you little and can step in during an injury crisis or on wet days or to fill a very specific role. And of this group of players, ok each year you will cut some, but don't you always want a couple you keep on the list for 6-10 years as they give you a known source of crisis replacements? And might a player like Menadue fit this description? Are Menadue and Markov more in the Egg-Smith and Bolton category? Or am I wrong, and ALL players should be cut as soon as it is apparent they will not make your best 25 at any foreseeable point now or in the future, so you can try to get another Kane Lambert in?

The AFL is set up to make it very difficult (impossible) to have a squad full of genuine quality AFL players. They will move on and cannot be paid what they are worth. Plus having to draft 3 each year means that list are always having some younger types. So you will almost always have a group of talented, but not quite first 22 players in any case. And some of these step up and become good AFL players over time.

So that leaves pretty much every team with a group of guys that have been on the list for a while and aren't genuine first 22. You can delist them and keep picking up kids. However the problems with that are that you need injury cover, you limit yourself only early developers, and the kids come into a team of other kids. Additionally if you always turn over those that don't develop quickly you end up with your draftees being developed in a team of early draftees. So not only do you limit your pool of mature players you probably hurt development of young players.

So if you want a decent team short and long term you are pretty much forced to have a group of almost AFL players on your list. You can look at them as list cloggers. Or you can look at them as carefully selected to add both depth and development to the squad.

We look to have that balance pretty right just now. Carlton has ended up with a lot these almost players.

tldr -> You are right, and these almost guys are important to the team and our future.
 

DoItForCaptBlood

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So let's do it.

Actually Sydney in the middle on a slippery night might be genius
With the exact opposite being true of Menadue. I want to see him hit a congested area tonight hard, make a crunching tackle and get the pill into our possession.

Yes Stack will do it.

But of course, Menadue will be waiting somewhere on the periphery hoping it gets out to him.

Hope he proves me wrong. A cold wet Thu night in Adelaide is not the conditions I have much hope with though.
 

Meteoric Rise

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With the exact opposite being true of Menadue. I want to see him hit a congested area tonight hard, make a crunching tackle and get the pill into our possession.

Yes Stack will do it.

But of course, Menadue will be waiting somewhere on the periphery hoping it gets out to him.

Hope he proves me wrong. A cold wet Thu night in Adelaide is not the conditions I have much hope with though.

I don't think Menadue will become another Mark Ricciuto any time soon, Craig Bradley is probably more realistic for him. Let's watch him in the contest though, I noticed previously he was getting nilled in contests too often and offering no physical presence, but his few games this year I thought I may have detected some improvement in this area.
 

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Yes for now. But he seems as likely as not to end up inside the best 22 to me, and therefore, demanding a bigger contract. It just seems to me there are posters here who want to delist every player showing any sign of not being in the best 25 or so. But all clubs seem to have some of these types on their lists. At any given time you are going to have your best 25(I have found 24 actually on our list who currently look locked into our best setup when fit,) plus:

- normally about 6 or 8 new draftees/rookies from the last two drafts(on our list this would be only Naish, Collier-Dawkins, Turner, English, Coleman-Jones, Miller) who haven't yet made your best 25 yet,

- maybe a few carryover small/medium types who are slow developers but show good signs of being best 25 players(Egg-Smith, Bolton)

- 3-4 ruck/key position projects a bit older than that, who you are still hopeful will make your best 25(on our list Moore, Chol, Garthwaite, Soldo)

- a small handful who seem to drop in an out of your best 25 but may be outside it now(Butler, Graham, Short)

Which takes us to 39 players. Right now, we have another 6 kicking around, Aarts, Pickett, Menadue, Markov, Weller, Townsend. Pickett I would say the club is realistically hoping steps into the top 25. The others, whilst not written off from being top 25 players are not seen as likely to make it. The club actively rookied Aarts, Townsend, Weller this year, mature players on minimum money, and it seems to me they would not have expected any of them to go into the top 25. My question to others is - don't you need a group of these players on your list at any given time? Mature bodies who cost you little and can step in during an injury crisis or on wet days or to fill a very specific role. And of this group of players, ok each year you will cut some, but don't you always want a couple you keep on the list for 6-10 years as they give you a known source of crisis replacements? And might a player like Menadue fit this description? Or are Menadue and Markov more in the Egg-Smith and Bolton category above? Or am I wrong, and ALL players should be cut as soon as it is apparent they will not make your best 25 at any foreseeable point now or in the future, so you can try to get another Kane Lambert in?
I understand your point but IMHO he is a player we can let go. We have an injury list as long as your arm and that is the only reason he is getting selected. If he was consistently pushing for senior selection in a side that had half the injuries we have he might be the player we keep, but at the moment I'd rather we get games into a younger player, give them a taste of senior footy so they know what level they ave to perform at and then they can further develop in the twos.

Anyway, best of luck to Connor tonight. I do wish him the best and hope this is not another false start to his senior career. It'd be nice to be celebrating his 50th game some time in the finals after stringing together 12 solid games.
 

DoItForCaptBlood

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I don't think Menadue will become another Mark Ricciuto any time soon, Craig Bradley is probably more realistic for him. Let's watch him in the contest though, I noticed previously he was getting nilled in contests too often and offering no physical presence, but his few games this year I thought I may have detected some improvement in this area.
Craig Bradley regularly had 30+ possie games all through his career. Connor struggles for half that. Well, he has ANOTHER chance tonight. Let's both objectively watch him after.... how many years has he been developing now?
 
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