No Oppo Supporters #37 Elijah Taylor - Pick 36 - Onwards to 2021

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Kennedy Parker

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Mod Note:

I've removed a large number of posts from the last day or so that is mainly speculation without any factual basis and broader discussion on the issue of DV.

I want to bring this thread back on track and reiterate the scope of the discussion to be:
*new developments in the Taylor case as more facts get reported
*ramifications of such facts on Taylor's future at the club and the Swans
*subsequent actions the Swans should take

If you want to talk about the sociology around the issue of DV more generally there's sure to be many appropriate threads on the Society, Religion, Politics board.

There's no reason for oppo posters to be weighing in here, there's a thread on the main board about the exact same topic.

From here on posts that are simply speculating without any factual backing are going in the bin. This includes:
*any posts speculating on the outcome of Taylor's guilt/innocence - he's presumed innocent until found guilty, we know as it stands there are serious allegations of DV against him, there's going to be a hearing on September 30. Without further fact and information, no one's in a position to make a more enlightened view.
*any posts theorising the girl 'attention-seeking' or making false claim for some other reason - without any supporting facts it's completely unfair to be making that sort of character assessment. A DV allegation is a serious claim and there's no business in dismissing it until the facts arise to counter it.
 

Angry Red Bull

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I’m sympathetic to the views trying to help him but at days end he can’t be damaging the swans brand and showing nil self control. He is under swans care so long as he holds the line and they can work with him to aid character development. But a bit like Ben Cousins he needs to help himself to then get support. In the space of a few months there are 3 legal breaches when the other 40 odd players have produced none. Enough!!! Pretty pathetic
 

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caesar88

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Have reserved commenting too much on any of the (unfortunately too many) incidents relating to Elijah until there was something relatively concrete.

The club is best equipped to handle whether he stays or goes.

What I think needs to happen either way is that he needs to be sat down by his team mates. Not the entire playing group, just the leaders and those he is closest to among the boys, so he can be made really aware that violence of any kind, but especially against women, is just not OK. He's 19, and at that age, few opinions matter more than your peers. Guys your own age, who you share laughs and banter with when you see them every day. That relationship now has to stand for something more, and they are the ones whose message will carry the most weight with Elijah.

Because at the end of the day, whether he's a Swan after all of this, or he's cut and moves back to Perth, he needs to get this message.
 

RUNVS

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Have reserved commenting too much on any of the (unfortunately too many) incidents relating to Elijah until there was something relatively concrete.

The club is best equipped to handle whether he stays or goes.

What I think needs to happen either way is that he needs to be sat down by his team mates. Not the entire playing group, just the leaders and those he is closest to among the boys, so he can be made really aware that violence of any kind, but especially against women, is just not OK. He's 19, and at that age, few opinions matter more than your peers. Guys your own age, who you share laughs and banter with when you see them every day. That relationship now has to stand for something more, and they are the ones whose message will carry the most weight with Elijah.

Because at the end of the day, whether he's a Swan after all of this, or he's cut and moves back to Perth, he needs to get this message.
I am very mixed about whether or not he should be sacked if found guilty as like you said it would probably be better for him long term if he does have a club environment to improve who he is. He is capable of it, men who commit domestic violence are capable of seeing what they do as wrong and improving who they are. A part of me wants him to stay in the system and get help, but with an obvious policy of if he does it again he is sacked immediately, but another part of me thinks that we are an AFL club, and an AFL club is not responsible for making Taylor a better person. I really don't know the answer.
 

Crust

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I am very mixed about whether or not he should be sacked if found guilty as like you said it would probably be better for him long term if he does have a club environment to improve who he is. He is capable of it, men who commit domestic violence are capable of seeing what they do as wrong and improving who they are. A part of me wants him to stay in the system and get help, but with an obvious policy of if he does it again he is sacked immediately, but another part of me thinks that we are an AFL club, and an AFL club is not responsible for making Taylor a better person. I really don't know the answer.
I see your point but his real problem is that list sizes are going to be reduced.

The other aspect is that if found guilty or he nods the scone, how can we keep him and cut another blemish free player?
 

The King!

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He’s a young bloke that’s had an apparently troubled upbringing, and appears to have struggles with anger and alcohol/whatever else? It’s not an uncommon story.

i’m not keen for the club to cut him loose, tbh. You can’t take on guys like Taylor and say you want to help them, then walk away at the first signs of serious trouble.

If he avoids jail, keep him on the list, away from league football, and see if you can help the guy get himself right. It’ll be better for everyone involved in his life.

Even if he perhaps is cut loose as a player maybe we can support him in other ways

Just depends what he did . I think if it’s the worse case scenario then she is the one we need more concern for, though maybe he is in jail in that case
 

Tedeski

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He’s a young bloke that’s had an apparently troubled upbringing, and appears to have struggles with anger and alcohol/whatever else? It’s not an uncommon story.

i’m not keen for the club to cut him loose, tbh. You can’t take on guys like Taylor and say you want to help them, then walk away at the first signs of serious trouble.

If he avoids jail, keep him on the list, away from league football, and see if you can help the guy get himself right. It’ll be better for everyone involved in his life.
I'm sure we are still involved with things going forward. We just aren't playing it out publicly.
 

Swan4Life

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Whilst these sort of allegations are obviously not good, assuming they are true and the club does choose to stand by him, it is better for it to happen now to minimise the likelihood that it will drag on into the start of the next season.
 

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Ralphyboy

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In an era of list cuts, Someone has to go for Elijah to stay. What if it is Zac Foote, a kid who devotes his entire heart and soul to being the best AFL player and person he can be. Zac had a tough upbringing as well but I have nothing but respect for how he has taken control of his life. He does the extras. Yes the swans, like any employer should look after Elijah. But the swans did not cause him to behave that way. In fact they went out of their way to help him change. Did you know he lived with Buddy. Do you know Kirk would go and pick him up and take him to pre-season training because he kept sleeping in. I am sorry, but I am with the Zac Footes, not the Elijahs. I can assure you the young swans players are looking closely to see whether the club will side with the Zacs or get seduced by the obvious talent of Elijah. Think of how many resources Elijah is using up. Lawyers, psychs, coaches, welfare. These could be used for the rest of the team. I would terminate his contract on the basis he is not mature enough to play AFL or to be employed in the role of an AFL player at this time. Yes he can get ongoing support, but nothing is stopping him playing WAFL and getting an AFL gig later.
 

Angry Red Bull

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In an era of list cuts, Someone has to go for Elijah to stay. What if it is Zac Foote, a kid who devotes his entire heart and soul to being the best AFL player and person he can be. Zac had a tough upbringing as well but I have nothing but respect for how he has taken control of his life. He does the extras. Yes the swans, like any employer should look after Elijah. But the swans did not cause him to behave that way. In fact they went out of their way to help him change. Did you know he lived with Buddy. Do you know Kirk would go and pick him up and take him to pre-season training because he kept sleeping in. I am sorry, but I am with the Zac Footes, not the Elijahs. I can assure you the young swans players are looking closely to see whether the club will side with the Zacs or get seduced by the obvious talent of Elijah. Think of how many resources Elijah is using up. Lawyers, psychs, coaches, welfare. These could be used for the rest of the team. I would terminate his contract on the basis he is not mature enough to play AFL or to be employed in the role of an AFL player at this time. Yes he can get ongoing support, but nothing is stopping him playing WAFL and getting an AFL gig later.
“Kirk would pick him up for training because he would be late otherwise by sleeping in.”

I didn’t know that! Omg that is serious disconnect with responsibility and accountability.
 

miggs

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There are some laughable suggestions in this thread. If we weren’t close to giving him the boot before this latest incident then he’s just packed his own bag. Stand him down until the court proceedings. If guilty, fu** him off and never speak his name again. We owe him nothing. We gave him a chance to pursue his dream and he has stuffed it up countless times. No player is bigger than the club.
 

caesar88

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There are some laughable suggestions in this thread. If we weren’t close to giving him the boot before this latest incident then he’s just packed his own bag. Stand him down until the court proceedings. If guilty, fu** him off and never speak his name again. We owe him nothing. We gave him a chance to pursue his dream and he has stuffed it up countless times. No player is bigger than the club.
I agree. But if the club and the players are in a position to be able to try and make him a better person, then you'd like to think we'd do so. Even if no longer as a player.
 

miggs

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I agree. But if the club and the players are in a position to be able to try and make him a better person, then you'd like to think we'd do so. Even if no longer as a player.
Why should we? If he was a 10 year player who gave back to the club that took a chance on him then maybe. But if he’s guilty, Then a bloke in his 1st year doing every thing he can to spit in the face of the club that took him on is just canine behaviour. If it’s true then wipe our hands and give his spot to a kid that will do anything to live his dream of being an AFL player. I would’ve sacked him over the quarantine breach personally but we gave him a 2nd chance. He shouldn’t get a 3rd or 4th one.
 

caesar88

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Why should we? If he was a 10 year player who gave back to the club that took a chance on him then maybe. But if he’s guilty, Then a bloke in his 1st year doing every thing he can to spit in the face of the club that took him on is just canine behaviour. If it’s true then wipe our hands and give his spot to a kid that will do anything to live his dream of being an AFL player. I would’ve sacked him over the quarantine breach personally but we gave him a 2nd chance. He shouldn’t get a 3rd or 4th one.
Yeah I'm not debating him losing his spot on the list. That's a no brainer. But we as a football club have the rare position of having the people and the resources to try and make him a better person. One less abusive man out in society is still a win, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't feel obliged to help him. Not for Elijah's sake, but for society's sake.
 

miggs

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Yeah I'm not debating him losing his spot on the list. That's a no brainer. But we as a football club have the rare position of having the people and the resources to try and make him a better person. One less abusive man out in society is still a win, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't feel obliged to help him. Not for Elijah's sake, but for society's sake.
I understand your point of view but I’ll agree to disagree. Let’s just hope it’s all resolved quickly with the least amount of damage to our brand as possible
 

Keyter

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Innocent or guilty, he doesn’t work hard enough, On and off the field, so time to move on....the swans have bent over backwards for him and he’s seen the role models and ethics needed to succeed and he’s made some really stupid decisions, so good luck, it’s over to you Eli....Hopefully the short swans experience turns you around...Good luck
 

Millky95

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Breaking the COVID restrictions I can understand to a point. You can put that partially down to being young, dumb and in love and the way he could have bounced back for that you can say he earned respect back and grew up. Everyone makes mistakes, it's all about how you learn from them.

But if he gets convicted for physical assault, I don't want him at the club. At all. If we aren't allowed to trade him or rip up his contract, tell him to stay away and we'll delist him ASAP.
 

Tedeski

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In an era of list cuts, Someone has to go for Elijah to stay. What if it is Zac Foote, a kid who devotes his entire heart and soul to being the best AFL player and person he can be. Zac had a tough upbringing as well but I have nothing but respect for how he has taken control of his life. He does the extras. Yes the swans, like any employer should look after Elijah. But the swans did not cause him to behave that way. In fact they went out of their way to help him change. Did you know he lived with Buddy. Do you know Kirk would go and pick him up and take him to pre-season training because he kept sleeping in. I am sorry, but I am with the Zac Footes, not the Elijahs. I can assure you the young swans players are looking closely to see whether the club will side with the Zacs or get seduced by the obvious talent of Elijah. Think of how many resources Elijah is using up. Lawyers, psychs, coaches, welfare. These could be used for the rest of the team. I would terminate his contract on the basis he is not mature enough to play AFL or to be employed in the role of an AFL player at this time. Yes he can get ongoing support, but nothing is stopping him playing WAFL and getting an AFL gig later.
Absolutely spot on Ralphy.
100% behind this post I am.:thumbsu:
 

Angry Red Bull

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Yeah I'm not debating him losing his spot on the list. That's a no brainer. But we as a football club have the rare position of having the people and the resources to try and make him a better person. One less abusive man out in society is still a win, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't feel obliged to help him. Not for Elijah's sake, but for society's sake.
Prison is equally as effective
 

cherub

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Prison is equally as effective
That's rubbish. Recidivist rates show how useless prison is at reform. More likely to turn a silly kid into an accomplished criminal.
Football offers a chance of growth and redemption. Tragically, Elijah would seem to have burnt too many bridges.
Barry Hall was accused of domestic violence, and performed actual violence on the footy field. He would not have had a career in the current social media age. Yet many on here reckon he's a good bloke. I think football saved him from ending up in prison.
 
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