3rd ODI; Australia v England at the SCG.

[Carbine Chaos]

White would have been great to captain.

Brilliant captain for the Vics.

NSW mafia always make sure NSW players get the captaincy lol.

White,two bad innings and the carving knife out while alot of other batsmen in the team have struggled.

Why was White dropped for the first game?

That rest pretty much killed the momentum in White’s form.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but White isn’t Victorian captain any more.

And how was he dropped for the first game when he wasn’t an incumbent?

 

[workhorse]

I didn't see any of England's innings but watched most of ours. We barely looked like hitting a boundary in the final 15 overs. Tubs, Slats et al kept beating up about how good of a position we were in and that we were ahead of England but, to me, we looked so far behind it wasn't funny. Full props to Wood, Woakes, Rashid and Morgan though, great performance by England. They really have nailed their ODI team at the moment.

 

[bungwahl]

That has to be one of the most tactically poor run chases in recent times. So slow through the middle when we needed to be getting ahead of the game. England were a front line bowler down too.

Thought England bowled extremely well though and Morgan's captaincy makes Joe Root look like a B grader.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

That has to be one of the most tactically poor run chases in recent times. So slow through the middle when we needed to be getting ahead of the game. England were a front line bowler down too.

Thought England bowled extremely well though and Morgan's captaincy makes Joe Root look like a B grader.

The approach only really looks bad when Smith gets out when he does. I think tactically he being there at the end was a sound idea. He and Marsh at the crease heading into the last 10 with 80 odd required would have been a good position to be in.

As well as Marsh has played he’s gotten out at horrible times in all three matches and he should be very disappointed in himself.

 

[bungwahl]

The approach only really looks bad when Smith gets out when he does. I think tactically he being there at the end was a sound idea. He and Marsh at the crease heading into the last 10 with 80 odd required would have been a good position to be in.

As well as Marsh has played he’s gotten out at horrible times in all three matches and he should be very disappointed in himself.

Yeah it's true to an extent, if Smith stays in then it's potentially a better position to be in for the last 10 overs. Personally I think it was just far too slow though. They didn't need to tee off like animals, but picking up another 15-20 runs through that middle period would have been enough. The Aussie batting looks a bit weak with Paine at 7 as he just doesn't have that natural big hitting game.

 

[Xsess]

That was one of the dumbest performances I've seen for a long time. Selections, batting, bowling, tactics.. you name it.

1) Warner is playing selfishly at the top of the order. Forget you're average mate if the team isn't 50 after the first 5 overs then you arent doing your job. Same with Finch. Two hundies - great - except they have been scored at slower than a run a ball and the team keeps losing ffs.

2) Steve Smith IS the bloke to bat time at a semi decent clip. Someone needs to glue an innings together and the worlds best bat may as well be it.

3) Ash Agar's bowling has improved out of sight and as such should be an automatic selection. Is on par with Zampa as a spin option with the added benefit of being a clutch power hitter. Is a perfect number 7. Maxwell even (but I think Agar is a better bowler)

4) Christ knows what the selectors are thinking re our bowling attack. They must still think we are playing tests. You've GOT to have a couple of death bowlers who can land Yorkers and pinpoint changes of pace. There's a few going around, Andrew Tye is an obvious one.

 

[Kram]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but White isn’t Victorian captain any more.

And how was he dropped for the first game when he wasn’t an incumbent?

Very, very rarely use the ignore but that guy is pushing me close. Don't mind trolls if they are funny but just parroting the same crap over and over again..

 

[Gethelred]

That was one of the dumbest performances I've seen for a long time. Selections, batting, bowling, tactics.. you name it.

1) Warner is playing selfishly at the top of the order. Forget you're average mate if the team isn't 50 after the first 5 overs then you arent doing your job. Same with Finch. Two hundies - great - except they have been scores at slower than a run a ball and the team keeps losing ffs.

Agree with you about Warner, but you genuinely cannot be serious about Finch. He's the only bloke who's looked in any touch, and he's gotten us into good positions despite the failures of the rest of the upper order. We've been in places where, had the middle order fired a shot - other than Stoinis, who has fired but often too late to do enough - we'd have made 330+; blaming Finch for that, when he's made 2 hundreds and a fifty inside the first thirty overs is ridiculous.

2) Steve Smith IS the bloke to bat time at a semi decent clip. Someone needs to glue an innings together and the worlds best bat may as well be it.

3) Ash Agar's bowling has improved out of sight and as such should be an automatic selection. Is on par with Zampa as a spin option with the added benefit of being a clutch power hitter. Is a perfect number 7.

You can't have a go at Finch's knocks on one hand, then say Smith is the one to bat time at a semi decent clip. Smith went at 68 last night; Finch went at 80.

World's best at test level? Absolutely. In the ODI's, though?

Beyond that, part of our problem is the excess of all rounders. Agar may be a spinning alrounder, but he's still adding to that cluttered middle order. Who are you dropping to bring him in? Stoinis; he averaged 60 in ODI's, and has scores in this series. Marsh; he's also gotten scores, although if we're going to criticise strike rate...

4) Christ knows what the selectors are thinking re our bowling attack. They must still think we are playing tests. You've GOT to have a couple of death bowlers who can land Yorkers and pinpoint changes of pace. There's a few going around, Andrew Tye is an obvious one.

Agreed. I will say, though, that bowlers like Zampa, Tye - constricters, harder to score off than our mainline battery - only show their worth when defending overwhelming runrates; they aren't forced to play like something they're not, and take wickets. No point in restricting the bats to 4 an over if that's all they need at the moment.

 

[Bob Neil]

Don’t reckon we’ll see Travis Head again in Aussie colours for a while...just not up to it yet and why he (or anyone else) ever bowls him is beyond me.

 

[Belnakor]

1) Warner is playing selfishly at the top of the order. Forget you're average mate if the team isn't 50 after the first 5 overs then you arent doing your job. Same with Finch. Two hundies - great - except they have been scored at slower than a run a ball and the team keeps losing ffs.

The issue is that neither of them are particularly explosive. Finch strikes at 90, Warner strikes at 100. That's pretty much their averages for their entire career. If you look at their recent innings, neither of them have the ability to strike at 150 any more.
If you look at the good teams (say, England who aren't' that good) Roy strikes at 110 and Bairstow strikes at 100, but they can strike alot higher.

They need to change the opening pair and say, either Warner or Finch you need to bat through the innings.

I think the Finch issue is still worth pointing out. Getting out for 100 in the 30th over is a good effort but thats when you should be hitting the accelerator. Finch was batting for himself in the 2nd ODI. He slowed down getting to his 100 then got out.

 

[Belnakor]

Beyond that, part of our problem is the excess of all rounders. Agar may be a spinning alrounder, but he's still adding to that cluttered middle order. Who are you dropping to bring him in? Stoinis; he averaged 60 in ODI's, and has scores in this series. Marsh; he's also gotten scores, although if we're going to criticise strike rate...

Agar would be a good pick IF the upper order batsman are going to have a go. Agar is the type of batsman who gets 40 off 25 in the last 10 overs, so it should allow us to hit the accelerator in the middle overs knowing Agar/Stonis/Marsh (who is batting way too high - he isn't a 5) are in the hutch ready to go.

 

[Belnakor]

White,two bad innings and the carving knife out while alot of other batsmen in the team have struggled.

The issue with White is has the same game as Finch, Warner and Smith. They hit the odd boundary, go at a run a ball. He has no ability to accelerate at all. Just no reason why you would bring him into the team when that role is already filled by 3 people.

I was honestly staggered people were saying he had a good big bash. He was striking at 110. Sure his average looks good - because he was taking zero risks.

 

[Xsess]

Agree with you about Warner, but you genuinely cannot be serious about Finch.

Finch has been great. The point was about our steady conservative starts when the field is up. One of the two openers just HAS to tee off every game. They are the most aggressive batters in our team.

 

[Xsess]

Agar would be a good pick IF the upper order batsman are going to have a go. Agar is the type of batsman who gets 40 off 25 in the last 10 overs, so it should allow us to hit the accelerator in the middle overs knowing Agar/Stonis/Marsh (who is batting way too high - he isn't a 5) are in the hutch ready to go.

That's the point. Agar doesn't have a test 99 for nothing, the kid can really bat. If the top order goes ape s**t he's the sort to maintain the momentum until the end. If they fail he's bloody good insurance down the order. And his spin bowling balances the attack.

 

[Belnakor]

Finch has been great. The point was about our steady conservative starts when the field is up. One of the two openers just HAS to tee off every game. They are the most aggressive batters in our team.

they USED to be the two most aggressive batters in our team. Warner's aggressiveness is really overrated. Against non minnows he has struck above 130 twice in his entire career.

 

[Belnakor]

That's the point. Agar doesn't have a test 99 for nothing, the kid can really bat. If the top order goes ape s**t he's the sort to maintain the momentum until the end. If they fail he's bloody good insurance down the order. And his spin bowling balances the attack.

I'm happy to keep him in the Scorchers instead of playing some meaningless ODIs

 

[kidgorgeous]

Is there any chance the selectors just pick a team and stick with it, just like they did with the Tests?

 

[Lyoncarcass]

Haven't read any of the thread but a couple of observations.

Steve Smith has been thoroughly out captained by Morgan. Field settings, bowler instruction and just general feel for the game.

Watching the first 3 ODI's Australia looked like a team still playing a bit of Ashe's cricket, Cummins continues to bowl short thinking he can bully allrounders, it's not the same tail as the Test side - hasn't worked well. Starc is looking to take wickets in every spell, that's fine early, but if a team is 250 in the 40th, limiting the chase is the first priority - really dumb bowling.

Shown up for the lack of quality spinner in our side - Lyon should walk back in, bat 11 and bowl his 10 every game, he also happens to be an electric fielder.

The bowling is a big concern, not because of the quality of quicks, but the plans, or lack their of. One day wickets with no seam movement almost make the length ball seam up redundant, Woakes started bowling off-cutters with a new ball. Everyone knows Warner and Finch will go hard early, England have shown an adaptability to their bowling strategy that we simply haven't - Aus plan seems to revolve around "blasting" through, after that we're in trouble.

Struggle to recall many slower ball bouncers, these are impossible to bash for 6.

On the batting front, we lack an X-factor who can tear apart a game in the middle overs against quality spin.

Smith talks about not practicising the "funky" stuff with Maxwell - well, when there are 3 men in the ring cover point to the keeper on the off side, and no one takes on the reverse sweep - you have just allowed the opposition captain to shape the field, you haven't asked the question of the bowler and you have no way of sparking the big 15-20 overs that can push a spinning option out of the attack.

When you're chasing 300 and you fall short with wickets in hand, someone hasn't gone hard enough - skip needs to think about his own plans in the ODI arena, not really firing on all cylinders and needs to bat a little funkier.

Can't see us winning a game to be honest.

 

[Belnakor]

Haven't read any of the thread but a couple of observations.

Steve Smith has been thoroughly out captained by Morgan. Field settings, bowler instruction and just general feel for the game.

i got worried when Lehmann was complaining England are copying our gameplan.

You mean the game plan where you go hard early, consolidate and then push in the last 10 overs?

Pretty sure the Sri Lankans came up with that one in 1996...

 

[Xsess]

they USED to be the two most aggressive batters in our team. Warner's aggressiveness is really overrated.

What happened to the Warner who came into t20 as a kid crushing the ball all over the park? With a new rock and the field someone has to be hitting at 120+ every game. If he's not prepared to do it anymore then get someone else in who will. Say to a Chris Lynn or an Ashton Turner - you are in the team but you are playing as though its a t20.

 

[Lyoncarcass]

i got worried when Lehmann was complaining England are copying our gameplan.

You mean the game plan where you go hard early, consolidate and then push in the last 10 overs?

Pretty sure the Sri Lankans came up with that one in 1996...

Self reflection not a strong suit of Boof.

 

[eddiesmith]

The issue with White is has the same game as Finch, Warner and Smith. They hit the odd boundary, go at a run a ball. He has no ability to accelerate at all. Just no reason why you would bring him into the team when that role is already filled by 3 people.

I was honestly staggered people were saying he had a good big bash. He was striking at 110. Sure his average looks good - because he was taking zero risks.

He was having a great big bash, doing exactly what the renegades needed with plenty of other batsmen to do the big hitting.

Even in T20s, a bloke who can stick around turning over the strike is invaluable if you have hitters at the other end or do you think Klinger is crap as well?

 

[Belnakor]

He was having a great big bash, doing exactly what the renegades needed with plenty of other batsmen to do the big hitting.

Even in T20s, a bloke who can stick around turning over the strike is invaluable if you have hitters at the other end or do you think Klinger is crap as well?

I don't think Klinger is crap but his role is considerably easier than someone who is hitting. There are alot of guys in the competition who can play the "nudge 1-2s" because it is a lower risk role.

If the renegades needed someone like him fine, but i don't think it is a hard role to play, nor do i think we had a shortage in the ODI team of people like him.

 

[smasha]

I didn't see any of England's innings but watched most of ours. We barely looked like hitting a boundary in the final 15 overs. Tubs, Slats et al kept beating up about how good of a position we were in and that we were ahead of England but, to me, we looked so far behind it wasn't funny. Full props to Wood, Woakes, Rashid and Morgan though, great performance by England. They really have nailed their ODI team at the moment.

Had it absolutely in the bag until that umpiring decision.
Fair play to England though,the better side this series.

Hopefully we get our mojo back and finish off with two wins then we can unofficially say we won the series.

 

[imperial_oz]

White would have been great to captain.

Brilliant captain for the Vics.

NSW mafia always make sure NSW players get the captaincy lol.

White,two bad innings and the carving knife out while alot of other batsmen in the team have struggled.

Why was White dropped for the first game?

That rest pretty much killed the momentum in White’s form.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but White isn’t Victorian captain any more.

And how was he dropped for the first game when he wasn’t an incumbent?

You can add to that, if White's form is so fragile that not getting picked for every game is going to 'kill his momentum' then he should never be looked at again....by anybody.

The facts are not good for him. His form is not good. He is 34 years old and not getting any younger. We need to be building for the WC next year and that means getting games into younger players. There is just no valid argument for bringing in a player of that age who is out of form. Its hard enough top justify keeping older players who are in form sometimes.

Take your one eyed view and put it away. Look at it logically. Its not the NSW mafia that made him old or put him out of form. The selectors error was not to exclude him from game 1 but to include him for games 2 and 3. There is no solid argument for keeping him right now and being Victorian isn't a solid argument.