3rd Test Squad named - Guess who's still there

Thommo 42

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He is not anywhere near as bad as Haddin, ignorant people who have very little idea are still judging him on the Shield final when he was 21.
Strangely enough he has improved a lot since then, who would have thought that a young keeper would improve:rolleyes:
Of course he has improved, there was only one way to go for him after that performance.

Get a clue champ, just because you think it doesn't make it so, before Micket Arthur was appointed coach, during the WA and Victoria shield match he said Wade is easily Test standard wicket keeper.
I think I will take his opinion over some idiots on an internet forum who have barely seen him play and actually think Haddin is a better keeper. Give it up you don't know what you're talking about.
Arthur also believes Haddin is a test standard keeper, so not really sure what your point is here?

I've been watching Wade keep since he was about 17, he has improved immensely. But he is still not at an acceptable level, just as Haddin is not.

The obvious replacement for Haddin is Paine, and unfortunately he is injured and no doubt the selectors are awaiting the next medical reports before putting Plan B into action for succession planning.

I have nothing against Matthew Wade, my point is merely that if you are dropping Haddin due to his keeping, you don't pick another player with questionable keeping. If you decide Haddin isn't doing enough with the bat, and you want someone to replace him as your #7, but get no improvement in the keeping department, then Wade is your man. However, I remain unconvinced that Wade would be any better with the bat, he certainly would not improve on his keeping.

Even watching the 20-20 game only a few weeks ago Wade was battling, he hurt his finger because he couldn't even glove a simple return at one point. He is not the polished product that a Paine or a Hartley are with the gloves.

Can't remember seeing hartley keep, but his 'numbers' stack up well and everyone I've spoken to, or chatted to agree that hartley is the best keeper in the land.

He's 29, or so, younger or about the same age as when haddin and katich first started playing for Aus.

The 20 to 30 runs he scores would be handy, however the fact he DOES NOT have a reputation for every dropping catches would indicate that his batting wouldn't matter that much.
Hartley is a better batsman than his number suggest, but he is most certainly not as good as Wade, Haddin or Paine. He is not a dasher like Wade/Haddin and doesn't have the top order technique of Paine, but he is a good fighter and can really dig in when it counts. He was sheffield shield player of the year 18 months ago, purely on his batting exploits after repeatedly digging QLD out of the shit. Thats the part people would like most about him, he is a fighter and can dig in when it counts.

Berry and healy are examples of two recent quality keepers at state and national level who were worth their weight because of their keeping.
Healy was a terrible keeper when first selected. He basically learnt on the job and worked harder on his game than anyone to become the great keeper he was. Have a look at his efforts early in his career, very average.

I've argued for hartley in threads here as well.

Age should NOT be an issue as it was not an issue for a few players getting their call up relatively late (hussey, katich and haddin among those who come to mind recently).

and at 28/29, if they WON'T pick wade, hartley is certainly got 3 to 4 seasons of quality cricket ahead of him.
I'm not arguing for Hartley, I'm just not sure what people are looking for.

If they want the best keeper, Hartley is it. If they want the best batsman, Haddin is probably it. If they want the best combination of the 2, Paine is it. Wade would not provide us an undeniable upgrade on Haddin in any of the skills, which is the only reason I wouldn't push for his selection.


Rather have hartley than baddin, any day of the week. Was a fan of paine's work in his previous stint in the test side.

Having baddin in the side is embarrassing.
He averages 35 with 3 test centuries (2 in Ashes tests) and 10 test 50's. His batting is totally acceptable for a test keeper, generally exceeding that of most keepers in the history of the game. His keeping is substandard, but obviously the selectors feel they will take the good with the bad until a better 'package' is available.

With Paine unavailable, I lean towards Hartley, as he is clearly the best keeper and he is one of those guys that I feel would improve his batting at the next level. I haven't seen enough of Nevill's keeping to comment, but his batting numbers are very good. He didn't make the Aus 19's side, so I never saw him, have more to do with 19's than 17's.
 

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Jimthegreat

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I think this is foolish planning. A quality keeper is worth any difference in runs between a batsman who is an adequate first slip with some big gloves and pads and a genuine keeper. Not that haddin contributing with the bat either.

Gilchrist was something special. Healy was brilliant as well, and batted with maturity to the best of his ability.
Need the right balance. You don't want a keeper with a batting average of 40 who can't keep but you don't want an outstanding keeper with a batting average of 20 either making the tail long.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Need the right balance. You don't want a keeper with a batting average of 40 who can't keep but you don't want an outstanding keeper with a batting average of 20 either making the tail long.
Right now we have a guy who cant bat or keep :(

Seriously cant understand why some people think we should wait for Paine to recover from injury. Theres no way Wade could be any worse than Haddin is at the moment.
 

Thommo 42

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If you think Haddin can't bat, you need to have a closer look at his record.

A couple of bad shots in tight situations doesn't mean he can't bat, otherwise nobody in our Top 6 can bat!

Average of 35 is more than adequate, his keeping on the other hand is completely inadequate. Also note, that on the very rare occassions he does play domestic cricket, he usually dominates with the bat.
 

Thommo 42

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Need the right balance. You don't want a keeper with a batting average of 40 who can't keep but you don't want an outstanding keeper with a batting average of 20 either making the tail long.
The #1 test team in the world has a hopeless keeper who averages 40+.

I think 40 is the minimum when you can't keep though
 

Thommo 42

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Sure, but there would be half a dozen playing County Cricket that are better.

Will be interesting to see what SA do, Boucher has been out of form with bat for a long time now, and he dropped 2 genuine sitters vs Sri Lanka so likely can't be retained much longer based on his glovework (which used to be exceptional). AB De Villiers could be the Gilchrist equivalent, but they may opt for a specialist.

With AB keeping and Kallis in the side, they would have a team with 7 batsmen and 5 bowlers, great balance.
 

Lemma

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Actually agree with Thommo on the point that Haddin's career batting record isn't bad. His recent record is terrible though- and it's something that needs to be addressed.
 

Thommo 42

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He's not Robinson Crusoe in regards to his recent record

2011

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=2;template=results;type=batting

In 2011, 4 specialist batsmen averaged in the 20's, Ponting averaged 31 and Clarke 38. Haddin averaged 21.

In 2010, he was 4th in batting averages and ahead of Clarke, Ponting, North & Hughes and in 2009 he averaged 44 and was 5th in averages ahead of Ponting, Hussey, North & Hayden.

I never realised people were seriously questioing his batting though, his keeping is clearly the issue.
 

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frankrizzo

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His keeping has always been average, he held his spot in the team because they thought he could average 40 with the bat.

last few years its more like 20, based on the criteria that got him selected he should have been sacked by now, unlike some of the others who are having batting struggles haddin doesn't even have a strong test record over many years to fall back on.
 

pickman

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He's had far too many brain explosions for my liking and the shot he played in the 47 all out was the final straw.
This. What type of moron coming in with his team 5/15 would think it is appropriate to charge down the wicket and play a shot like that?

If I a selector/coach/captain he would've been on the first flight after the match.
 

glenferry23

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the photo looks pretty unique - the pitch itself is hard to distinguish from the infield! but yes remains to be seen what finishing touches they put on before the test starts on friday
 

Marlin01

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Precisely. When you consider how hot and dry it is in Perth ATM, the moisture can leave the pitch very quickly. That said, it is the WACA and despite people saying the pitch hasn't been "the WACA of old" in recent years, compared with other pitches it's always very bouncy and fast.

Moody is the first to have mentioned the key point when bowling at the WACA. You must have good into the wind bowlers. Hilfenhaus is the perfect option, but he'll need assistance. They could choose to rotate other quicks into the breeze, but it's bloody hard work and unless Harris is 100%, he'll struggle. The breeze would prevent Starc from straightening the ball down the line, which is his best go. Siddle no doubt would do the job asked of him, but it would be a big ask. If they think they can get 10 overs out of Clarke, Hussey and perhaps Warner, then four quicks is probably the way to go.
 

aussierulesrules

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They could choose to rotate other quicks into the breeze, but it's bloody hard work and unless Harris is 100%, he'll struggle.
There was an article in the paper yesterday about Harris and they said that since Christmas, he's bowled more "overs" than both Siddle and Pattinson. As I suggested he would have been recently, they reckon he's been going full throttle in the nets to our top order during the Melb and Sydney tests and has reportedly been bowling 8 and 4 over "spells" there, at full speed, etc. He's also played 5 competitive T20 matches since he's been back, too, which involves a lot of frantic running around at top speed, so I think it's fair to say he'd be about as "100%" as he gets.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/no-shield-practice-but-harris-primed-20120109-1pryt.html
 
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Thread starter #174
There was an article in the paper yesterday about Harris and they said that since Christmas, he's bowled more "overs" than both Siddle and Pattinson. As I suggested he would have been recently, they reckon he's been going full throttle in the nets to our top order during the Melb and Sydney tests and has reportedly been bowling 8 and 4 over "spells" there, at full speed, etc. He's also played 5 competitive T20 matches since he's been back, too, which involves a lot of frantic running around at top speed, so I think it's fair to say he'd be about as "100%" as he gets.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/no-shield-practice-but-harris-primed-20120109-1pryt.html
I give him 6 overs before getting injured.
 

aussierulesrules

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I give him 6 overs before getting injured.
As I said, he's probably about as "100%" as he gets, which is not saying much. It was also a bit of a concern to read that "The pain from his hip/back injury still "comes and goes". When you combine that with his chronic knee, it sounds like he's frequently bowling in pain, so you'd have to wonder how much more cricket he's got in him. :(
 
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