Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

telsor

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I reckon 20,000 members would be the easiest thing the club would of ever had to achieve. That would be the easy part.
I would think they'd get 20K just from people who want to see a game live (and another 20K GA for most games for the same reason).

If they actually brought some of their own fans to the party, that'd be on top of that.


But no, it seems people in Perth don't like going to see games live :huh: and would rather watch on TV. Live football is only for the rich in WA.
 

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Kram

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What the hell are you on about? Membership may be full but you can easily get a ticket to any Fremantle game you want, general admission ones at $36 too.

And before you say it is just because we are going crap you could still get tickets reasonably easy last year when we were on top of the ladder, I know from personal experience.
 

telsor

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What the hell are you on about? Membership may be full but you can easily get a ticket to any Fremantle game you want, general admission ones at $36 too.

And before you say it is just because we are going crap you could still get tickets reasonably easy last year when we were on top of the ladder, I know from personal experience.
really? how many do they sell each game?
 

Kram

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greatwhiteshark

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I would think they'd get 20K just from people who want to see a game live (and another 20K GA for most games for the same reason).

If they actually brought some of their own fans to the party, that'd be on top of that.


But no, it seems people in Perth don't like going to see games live :huh: and would rather watch on TV. Live football is only for the rich in WA.
West Perth have 3500 signed up members now which in the WAFL/landscape is pretty good. There would be at least another 10'000 serious West Perth supporters over the age of 40.
Then as you say there is the people who simply can't get a seat at Eagles or Dockers games.
The bottom line is the Eagles and Dockers would not want another club as it could impinge on their money tree they have going at the moment and the AFL don't want real football clubs in the Keague unless they are from Victoria.
It should happen but it won't.
The fact also that the AFL would listen to the Eagles and Dockers about what is best for WA football is scary, neither club could care less about it.
 

Kram

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You CAN get a seat at Fremantle games at least pretty easily (and will be even easier at the 60k stadium) why do people keep peddling this BS?

And just lol, if West Perf were put into the AFL they would be absolute minnows in the AFL competition.
 
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You CAN get a seat at Fremantle games at least pretty easily (and will be even easier at the 60k stadium) why do people keep peddling this BS?

And just lol, if West Perf were put into the AFL they would be absolute minnows in the AFL competition.
only 400 seats left in March this year, but they do sell 3,000 seats for every home game, as do the Eagles - they are kept for walk ups, there are waiting lists for some areas, i would have thought the 400 seats left are not great i know families who have knocked back Dockers seats because they are sh1t viewing, sh1t positions.

The Dockers have about 400 reserved seat memberships remaining this season, while the Eagles have a waiting list of more than 12,000.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...s/news-story/dc6b69a39ed390140aaebec9f4ea0334

 

telsor

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West Perth have 3500 signed up members now which in the WAFL/landscape is pretty good. There would be at least another 10'000 serious West Perth supporters over the age of 40.
Then as you say there is the people who simply can't get a seat at Eagles or Dockers games.
The bottom line is the Eagles and Dockers would not want another club as it could impinge on their money tree they have going at the moment and the AFL don't want real football clubs in the Keague unless they are from Victoria.
It should happen but it won't.
The fact also that the AFL would listen to the Eagles and Dockers about what is best for WA football is scary, neither club could care less about it.
I think it's more to do with licencing and power.

AFL wants control, and realises that the current setup (clubs owned by WAFC) puts money/power in WAFCs hands, so they'd be pretty keen not to expand on that.

Ideal AFL setup would be 'independent' *cough* clubs funneling money to the AFL who then distributes it to WAFC to use as the AFL directs.

Having the new stadium not managed by WAFC gives a small opening, but I think the PR nightmare caused by starting another WA club not owned by WAFC just wouldn't be worth it, leaving no workable (from the AFL POV) option for adding more clubs over there.

Not sure a single WAFL club would be enough, although that would give them the base people keep talking about (both their own fans, and an appeal to tradition with other WAFL club supporters, which would get a few more).
 

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The bottom line is the Eagles and Dockers would not want another club as it could impinge on their money tree they have going at the moment and the AFL don't want real football clubs in the Keague unless they are from Victoria.
No serious club application has gone anywhere other than Port Adelaide - and even that went the same route as the crows, leading to something of an indentity crisis at alberton. The SANFL and WAFL never wanted individual clubs to join, they both always wanted their joint operations to go in. Notably see the fight over Port in 1990.

The AFL dont want "real" football clubs in the league because they want franchises with no other reason to exist than the club itself. (Even the Victorian clubs moved away from being "real clubs" years ago when they dropped off the under 19s and have technically been franchises since 1986) Not supporting juniors or feathering the nest of state leagues. Then theres the "minor" issue of state competitions not wanting to let go of state clubs.

The fact also that the AFL would listen to the Eagles and Dockers about what is best for WA football is scary, neither club could care less about it.
The AFL would listen to all stakeholders. Not forgetting that both clubs are represented on the board of the WAFC.
 

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No serious club application has gone anywhere other than Port Adelaide - and even that went the same route as the crows, leading to something of an indentity crisis at alberton. The SANFL and WAFL never wanted individual clubs to join, they both always wanted their joint operations to go in. Notably see the fight over Port in 1990.

The AFL dont want "real" football clubs in the league because they want franchises with no other reason to exist than the club itself. (Even the Victorian clubs moved away from being "real clubs" years ago when they dropped off the under 19s and have technically been franchises since 1986) Not supporting juniors or feathering the nest of state leagues. Then theres the "minor" issue of state competitions not wanting to let go of state clubs.



The AFL would listen to all stakeholders. Not forgetting that both clubs are represented on the board of the WAFC.
Norwood made serious applications throughout the 1980's but withdrew their 1990 bid at the last minute...then tried and failed again in 1994.
 

Kwality

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Call me when a WAFL club get 40k to a GF against a reserves side. When that happens I might believe WA can sustain a 3rd side.
So how does your request relate to sustaining a 3rd AFL side? Supply & demand in WA for AFL footy appears to support more footy.

WA puts more players into the AFL player pool than its two clubs take from it.

But please, no more sides, 18 is a great example of sustainability, ie the lack thereof. Merge, cut, whatever, no more AFL clubs !!!!
 
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Just on 6pr radio- a all encompassing review of WA footy is being undertaken and one specific area is the 3rd team scenario that will be looked at seriously by the commish.
oh please dont. perth is suitable at 2 sides, by now everyone is connected and has a side. do not dilute the talent pool. there is no upside with another perth team.

the perth market isnt that big. what catchment area? i could relate if fremantle were not in
y
 

madmug

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oh please dont. perth is suitable at 2 sides, by now everyone is connected and has a side. do not dilute the talent pool. there is no upside with another perth team.

the perth market isnt that big. what catchment area? i could relate if fremantle were not in
y
So how big a catchment area do you need for an AFL club. ?

If an Aussie Rules mad state state with 2.7 million people & a GDP per head of $85k isnt big enough for 3 teams, then what is?
 

mianfei

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So how does your request relate to sustaining a 3rd AFL side? Supply & demand in WA for AFL footy appears to support more footy.

WA puts more players into the AFL player pool than its two clubs take from it.

But please, no more sides, 18 is a great example of sustainability, ie the lack thereof. Merge, cut, whatever, no more AFL clubs !!!!
It ought to be remembered that bottom VFL club St. Kilda were nearly privatised and owned by a WA businessman back in 1985 before the Eagles were formed but when demographic changes were already leading to heavy losses for the VFL as attending games was tough in new suburbs devoid of weekend public transport (look at the 802 bus timetable, unchanged in a quarter of a century, here as a guide). If that privatisation had been successful and the VFL realised that unpopular changes like eliminating ticket price controls (leaving price-setting to the clubs where it belongs) would help the competition, then many Melbourne-based clubs would have gone long before now. Even in 1991 when the competition was cutting its losses it was “prophesied” by The Age that
The Age said:
“in 20 years there may be only six or seven Melbourne-based teams”.
In fact, the huge television revenues, which may in fact according to Stefan Szymański be a consequence of keeping these poorly-performing teams to ensure popular teams win more often, have meant only poorly-supported Fitzroy has disappeared. However, the Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne and St. Kilda might well have disappeared but for aid from the AFL itself during the late 1990s and 2000s, so a “free market” league philosophy and policy would certainly leave more room than at present for a third Western Australian club if one of the Victorian (or Queenland) clubs becomes unviable financially.

Even if not plausible in today’s AFL, such alternative trajectories do constitute interesting “what-ifs”!
 
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It ought to be remembered that bottom VFL club St. Kilda were nearly privatised and owned by a WA businessman back in 1985 before the Eagles were formed but when demographic changes were already leading to heavy losses for the VFL as attending games was tough in new suburbs devoid of weekend public transport (look at the 802 bus timetable, unchanged in a quarter of a century, here as a guide). If that privatisation had been successful and the VFL realised that unpopular changes like eliminating ticket price controls (leaving price-setting to the clubs where it belongs) would help the competition, then many Melbourne-based clubs would have gone long before now. Even in 1991 when the competition was cutting its losses it was “prophesied” by The Age thatIn fact, the huge television revenues, which may in fact according to Stefan Szymański be a consequence of keeping these poorly-performing teams to ensure popular teams win more often, have meant only poorly-supported Fitzroy has disappeared. However, the Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne and St. Kilda might well have disappeared but for aid from the AFL itself during the late 1990s and 2000s, so a “free market” league philosophy and policy would certainly leave more room than at present for a third Western Australian club if one of the Victorian (or Queenland) clubs becomes unviable financially.

Even if not plausible in today’s AFL, such alternative trajectories do constitute interesting “what-ifs”!
Who is at most risk out of North, Footscray, St Kilda? I can't see Melbourne being let go due to its history.
 

greatwhiteshark

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oh please dont. perth is suitable at 2 sides, by now everyone is connected and has a side. do not dilute the talent pool. there is no upside with another perth team.

the perth market isnt that big. what catchment area? i could relate if fremantle were not in
y
For over 100 years we had 8 sides playing in a huge comp. Victoria has 10 sides playing in the current comp, isnt that diluting the talent pull more than anyone? AFL clubs continue to show they don't necessarily want the best talent, they want only the best talent under 20 years of age which is why we don't have the best players in Australia playing in the AFL, once over 24 years old you are deemed not worth drafting. Great for the second tier of footy who have all these good players running around that can easily play AFL but miss out because of the potential lotto AFL clubs keep playing.

there is plenty of room for at least one more side in WA, there is only one place in Australia that needs looking at but the State Of Victoria for some reason is untouchable. 10 sides has always been 4 to many and will always be 4 to many. The fact that it wont change anytime soon doesn't change what the problem is in the AFL.
It will change in time, we will be probably long gone but there is no chance in hell there will be 10 clubs in the national league in Victoria in 50 years. As money takes the game over completely, salary caps are gone, private ownership will happen. The League will change considerably over the next 50 years. Everything will be about money, handouts will be gone, equalization gone.
It will be sad to see it go that way but its as sure as death and taxes.
 

budge27

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What the hell are you on about? Membership may be full but you can easily get a ticket to any Fremantle game you want, general admission ones at $36 too.

And before you say it is just because we are going crap you could still get tickets reasonably easy last year when we were on top of the ladder, I know from personal experience.
I'm calling crap on this. I tried getting Freo v Pies tickets before the season last year and they were all sold out inc all GA tickets. The only tickets available were $130 on the resale market. Ended up having to buy a Dockers membership to get a ticket to the game!
 

Kram

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I'm calling crap on this. I tried getting Freo v Pies tickets before the season last year and they were all sold out inc all GA tickets. The only tickets available were $130 on the resale market. Ended up having to buy a Dockers membership to get a ticket to the game!
You can at the very least always get single seats that have been put for resale by members. A few days before the game I easily got a very good seat v Collingwood in 2013. 2 together against a team as popular as Collingwood is a challenge though.
 
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