Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

NoobPie

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As a very long term resident of Perth and also a long time supporter of our game and given the present state of the WAFC finances and also the precarious position of a few WAFL Clubs we need another AFL Club not.
Whoever started this thread has no flipping idea of the layout of Perth and the general economic situation.
It taken the Eagles decades to get into the healthy position they are in and look at the Dockers they are just starting to get somewhere financially.
I have no doubt you know better about WA football but I think it is worth pointing out that the professional /elite level of WA football is in very rude financial health. According to the WAFC 2017 annual report consolidated (presumably including Eagles and dockers) revenues were at $138M and net assets of almost $100M

I think the WAFL clubs are a different issue (i.e the sustainable role of the second tier) but ultimately it really comes down to:

1)whether or not there is enough fat in the Eagles (particularly) and dockers support to support a third team
2) whether or not anyone would go for said third team anyway

The idea of a third AFL team must be enticing to the WAFC (and WA govt for that matter) all else being equal.

-The share of base AFL distributions to WA clubs would increase from 2/18 to 3/20.
-A very large stadium investment would get another 11 AFL matches a year including 4 extra local derbies
-the state would retain (net) roughly what it contributes to the AFL player pool

It would also remove another match of travel per year for each WA team
 

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telsor

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In Adelaide the choice was between Footy Park & Adelaide Oval (the SANFL or the venue manager at Adelaide Oval & in WA it was the WAFC at Subi, the Venue Manager/State Govt at Optus.
Yes, it was concluded after the pushing & shoving of the AFL footy clubs who pull the crowds.

Not surprised you will attempt to muddy the waters, not sure why - the AFL didnt ask the Tiges view on the deal, & both the MCC & AFL compete for members amongst the Tiger faithful with your footy club.

Not sure any of our media havent put Richard Goyder on the spot, & Gil, like Fitz is Melbourne establishment thru & thru, blue blood.
Not muddying the waters at all. Just pointing out that the AFL has a clear history of only speaking to relevant parties when they're having a negotiation (like any vaguely sane business would).

Should they have invited the management of Bellerive into discussions of where the GF should be played? Of course not! So why should they include other venues that also lack the potential to host the game as successfully and lucratively as the MCG can and does?
 

Kwality

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Not muddying the waters at all. Just pointing out that the AFL has a clear history of only speaking to relevant parties when they're having a negotiation (like any vaguely sane business would).

Should they have invited the management of Bellerive into discussions of where the GF should be played? Of course not! So why should they include other venues that also lack the potential to host the game as successfully and lucratively as the MCG can and does?
Possibly because its a national comp and as NSW, SA & WA Governments had indicated interest.
 

telsor

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Possibly because its a national comp and as NSW, SA & WA Governments had indicated interest.
It's a 'national comp' where over 50% of the market is in one place, along with the largest stadium (by far).

I'm interested in sleeping with supermodels...Doesn't mean it's a realistic thing, or that they're required to give me the time of day.

If the NSW, SA & WA governments had made any serious indications of interest (as opposed to a few idle comments to sooth local voters), they would have brought it up in a way that couldn't have been avoided (e.g. as part of the Perth stadium deal with the AFL, put in a clause requiring they be consulted/etc regarding future GFs...somewhere around where the deal for all other finals was included most likely). That none of them did anything like that suggests they're either not all that interested, realised it was a pipe dream, or were just incompetent...none of which is the fault of the AFL, or suggest moving the GF would be a good idea.
 

telsor

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At the end of the day, the AFL GF wont move because the second biggest AFL market/city is also the most isolated city in the world and thus incapable logistically of hosting the game to the required standard, and the AFL can't move the game anywhere without giving it to Perth as well.

People who don't recognise this just don't understand what is required to put on an event of this scale.

But hey, if you want to work it out...Start by explaining how you'll move 40-50,000 people to/from Perth in the few days before/after the game and accommodate them adequately (remembering that many of these people will be corporates and wont be satisfied with an airBnB in someones spare room).
 

Kwality

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It's a 'national comp' where over 50% of the market is in one place, along with the largest stadium (by far).

I'm interested in sleeping with supermodels...Doesn't mean it's a realistic thing, or that they're required to give me the time of day.

If the NSW, SA & WA governments had made any serious indications of interest (as opposed to a few idle comments to sooth local voters), they would have brought it up in a way that couldn't have been avoided (e.g. as part of the Perth stadium deal with the AFL, put in a clause requiring they be consulted/etc regarding future GFs...somewhere around where the deal for all other finals was included most likely). That none of them did anything like that suggests they're either not all that interested, realised it was a pipe dream, or were just incompetent...none of which is the fault of the AFL, or suggest moving the GF would be a good idea.
At least you admitted there had been expressions of interest, & they were enough to get the Vic Govt to pull out the cheque book, the AFL opened both hands & the MCC took the bank guarantee for future use.
In both SA & WA the clubs got a hearing, so no doubt your frequently repeated bleat about stadium deals will continue.

Supermodels eh, sexist beast, dont you share it about?
 

Kwality

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At the end of the day, the AFL GF wont move because the second biggest AFL market/city is also the most isolated city in the world and thus incapable logistically of hosting the game to the required standard, and the AFL can't move the game anywhere without giving it to Perth as well.

People who don't recognise this just don't understand what is required to put on an event of this scale.

But hey, if you want to work it out...Start by explaining how you'll move 40-50,000 people to/from Perth in the few days before/after the game and accommodate them adequately (remembering that many of these people will be corporates and wont be satisfied with an airBnB in someones spare room).
Rubbish. WA did the Americas Cup eons back, Adelaide did the GP until Vic stole the event, Sydney ? Are you serious, pathetic.
 

telsor

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At least you admitted there had been expressions of interest, & they were enough to get the Vic Govt to pull out the cheque book, the AFL opened both hands & the MCC took the bank guarantee for future use.
In both SA & WA the clubs got a hearing, so no doubt your frequently repeated bleat about stadium deals will continue.

Supermodels eh, sexist beast, dont you share it about?
Interest comes in many varieties...A token expression of interest is significantly different to a real effort. If they'd made a real effort, who knows what might have happened.

The Vic government made a real effort *AFTER* both SA & WA government had stadium related talks directly with the AFL (and clearly did/achieved nothing regarding the GF).
 

telsor

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Rubbish. WA did the Americas Cup eons back, Adelaide did the GP until Vic stole the event, Sydney ? Are you serious, pathetic.
F1 GP moved to Melbourne because we could do it much better (both quality and making more money).

That you think the hosting a minor event like the Americas cup 30 years ago is in any way relevant shows you have no idea with regard as to what is required for a major event.

Allow me to repeat my previous question...(which you ignored, presumably because you know you can't answer it well enough)

At the end of the day, the AFL GF wont move because the second biggest AFL market/city is also the most isolated city in the world and thus incapable logistically of hosting the game to the required standard, and the AFL can't move the game anywhere without giving it to Perth as well.

People who don't recognise this just don't understand what is required to put on an event of this scale.

But hey, if you want to work it out...Start by explaining how you'll move 40-50,000 people to/from Perth in the few days before/after the game and accommodate them adequately (remembering that many of these people will be corporates and wont be satisfied with an airBnB in someones spare room).
 

Kwality

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Interest comes in many varieties...A token expression of interest is significantly different to a real effort. If they'd made a real effort, who knows what might have happened.

The Vic government made a real effort *AFTER* both SA & WA government had stadium related talks directly with the AFL (and clearly did/achieved nothing regarding the GF).
Yes, there were expressions of interest, there is more to a bid than the bag of gold.
 

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Kwality

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Telsor above said*:
At the end of the day, the AFL GF wont move because the second biggest AFL market/city is also the most isolated city in the world and thus incapable logistically of hosting the game to the required standard, and the AFL can't move the game anywhere without giving it to Perth as well.

People who don't recognise this just don't understand what is required to put on an event of this scale.

But hey, if you want to work it out...Start by explaining how you'll move 40-50,000 people to/from Perth in the few days before/after the game and accommodate them adequately (remembering that many of these people will be corporates and wont be satisfied with an airBnB in someones spare room).

* Dont know how this format happened, I'll wear it.

The Kwality reply:

I wont just dismiss this as the spurious ramblings of a crazy (entitled), as I did when you first suggested it, so go back to the Americas Cup, it wasnt just a one day affair, the big logistics challenge was the Louis Vuitton Cup, 13 syndicates, 7 from North America (the US & Canada), 5 from Europe (Italy x2, France x 2 & the UK ) plus one from NZ). They all had yachts, tenders, crews & support craft, WA managed & it lasted months not a couple of days. Hell even the PM got a gig, then again he's originally a Perth boy & could have bunked up with some of his Uni mates :'(, & the international visitors, crews & sponsors would've been happy in a tent on the many beaches in Perth, fair dinkum !!

40-50,000 visitors for GF, dont think so, no MCC types, no AFL members, members of the competing footy clubs would get first dibs, more than the current (& future) the arrangements at the MCG. The winners would be the members of the competing clubs.
Not enough beds is that your claim? Not enough planes, the direct flight from the UK might attract UK expats. The WA Govt wouldnt have put in a bid if that were the case, just they didnt get the opportunity courtesy of the sleazy deal that the AFL signed off on.

I acknowledge the loss of the GF from Melbourne would derail a well established gravy train & those aboard that train wouldnt let go easily.
 
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Isaac Cumming No 1

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At the end of the day, the AFL GF wont move because the second biggest AFL market/city is also the most isolated city in the world and thus incapable logistically of hosting the game to the required standard, and the AFL can't move the game anywhere without giving it to Perth as well.

People who don't recognise this just don't understand what is required to put on an event of this scale.

But hey, if you want to work it out...Start by explaining how you'll move 40-50,000 people to/from Perth in the few days before/after the game and accommodate them adequately (remembering that many of these people will be corporates and wont be satisfied with an airBnB in someones spare room).

I wont just dismiss this as the spurious ramblings of a crazy as I did when you first suggested it, so go back to the Americas Cup, it wasnt just a one day affair, the big logistics challenge was the Louis Vuitton Cup, 13 syndicates, 7 from North America (the US & Canada), 5 from Europe (Italy x2, France x 2 & the UK ) plus one from NZ). They all had yachts, tenders, crews & support craft, WA managed & it lasted months not a couple of days. Hell even the PM got a gig, then again he's originally a Perth boy & could have bunked up with some of his Uni mates :'(.

40-50,000 visitors for GF, dont think so, no MCC types, no AFL members, members of the competing footy clubs would get first dibs, more than the current (& future) the arrangements at the MCG. The winners would be the members of the competing clubs.
Not enough beds is that your claim? Not enough planes, the direct flight from the UK might attract UK expats. The WA Govt wouldnt have put in a bid if that were the case, just they didnt get the opportunity courtesy of the sleazy deal that the AFL signed off on.
Easy to forget how big the Americas cup was then, first time away from the US before it sank into irrelevance as the rules were found invalid.

I visited Perth not long after and observation city and the money sank into it tells you it wasn't minor. It was the Bond era thoughI guess.
 

NoobPie

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Easy to forget how big the Americas cup was then, first time away from the US before it sank into irrelevance as the rules were found invalid.

I visited Perth not long after and observation city and the money sank into it tells you it wasn't minor. It was the Bond era thoughI guess.

I suspect it didn't entail 50K inbound visitors let-a-lone who, for the most part, need to make arrangements within 7 days
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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I suspect it didn't entail 50K inbound visitors let-a-lone who, for the most part, need to make arrangements within 7 days
Not the short term thing no. Much harder logistics with crews and their supports though. I suspect more visitors.

I just dont get the logic of 50k visitors unless you envisage two non WA sides. Even then very doubtful.
 

Kwality

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Easy to forget how big the Americas cup was then, first time away from the US before it sank into irrelevance as the rules were found invalid.

I visited Perth not long after and observation city and the money sank into it tells you it wasn't minor. It was the Bond era thoughI guess.
The irrelevance is in Aus only, no challenger, no interest from the sporting media - the current yachts are amazing, check it out:
 

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40-50,000 visitors for GF, dont think so, no MCC types, no AFL members, members of the competing footy clubs would get first dibs, more than the current (& future) the arrangements at the MCG. The winners would be the members of the competing clubs.
Naive if you think the afl and corporates wouldn’t gobble up the day just as they do in Melbourne. AFL members would still get a slice, as would the members of the stadium that hosts the event.
 

Kwality

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I'd say letting WA have two teams in our comp shows the VFl does have a lot of time for WA.
Too true for the would be entitled, BUT without the WA players you'd have the situation of ALL the state based comps, none ever attracted ALL THE BEST players, the national comp attracts the best (& too many duds, but thats a different story for another thread not this one IMHO).
 
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Kwality

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Naive if you think the afl and corporates wouldn’t gobble up the day just as they do in Melbourne. AFL members would still get a slice, as would the members of the stadium that hosts the event.
The stadium seats 60k FWIW, bit like the G minus the AFL & MCC seating, so 40-50 n Perth is a fair ballpark.
When Freo played a final at Geelong, no AFL members seating was allocated, as it is always down there, nor do AFL members get seated in Perth & there are few Stadium memberships (cant find the exact number, no doubt someone will advise). Think Adelaide & Sydney are much the same, no idea at the Gabba.
 
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