Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

Atomboy

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Oh geez imagine the amount of moaning about "having to travel" a 3rd WA club would create.

Perhaps they could create two extra teams and just play amongst themselves ?.
 

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Kwality

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The FOR argument should be about the difficulty so many people/famililies/kids have getting to a game with very limited GA seats & I'm not sure a 3rd club would really help that. As it stands I'd think that should be a plus for Freo IF they could appeal to those who complain about not being being able to take in an AFL game.
 

Gibbke

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Tassie deserves its own dark green two headed home grown mainland bashing monster, not a relocation. That's my dream, Devils and Tigers distributing the pain on a weekly basis for 52 weeks of the year, not just summer...

The economic reality of the situation is very blurry. This isn't 1996, where rationalisation was the name of the game, and membership and tv exposure and funding wasn't what it is today. Every team is receiving handy dividends and trading in the black or close enough, and all of those funds are earned by the product, not just given by the footy equivalent of Centrelink. Tassie wouldn't be Richmond or West Coast, but it would be as self-sufficient as North or Footscray, able to attract sponsors, and would also have the local government perpetually on board due to the proven tourism link AFL clubs have fostered there since 2001. While the government might have its own ideal as to what teams should be playing out of the state, they have no problem forking out regardless for the tourism boost, knowing no one will get on the boat across Bass Strait in the middle of winter otherwise. Pay for footy, keep the shops open in winter and build the odd hospital in Tassie, and you will never lose an election...

Couldn't speak for WA authoratively, but many WA and Eagles fans jumped ship or vacated their WC-free no man's land for Freo in 1995. Why wouldn't West Australians do the same for WA3 if it was a WA-grown team...? The rapidly-expanding population is greater than 24 years ago, and while the West Australian makes it seem so, not everyone is surgically attached to those two teams. That Eagles waiting list surely would have a down side, especially if you just wanted to go to the f###ing footy...! In 50 years, the place might be bursting at the seams with a potential new market, never mind much sooner...

I wouldn't completely write off the notion of new Victorian franchises either. We might all be old and grey with cobwebs on our arses if it happens, but the Victorian population will be Australia's largest in a few decades...
 

madmug

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But that wouldn't be a Tasmanian team. It is barely better than they are getting now

I think the idea would be that a Tasmanian team will essentially evolve out of the Tasmanian Devils and play in the VFL along the way to becoming an AFL club in the middle of next decade. This "task force" will need to develop the momentum so that, at least in the initial decade, it gets no more than the AFL distribution. For this it would need a long term government and corporate commitment, and likely get stadium access at peppercorn rent.

Likewise a WA3 would have to be funded out of WA. It would be justified by the fact that it would better align the number of professional football clubs in WA with the market size and player nursery. It would create 4 new "derbies" including an extra game at perth stadium for the Eagles and the Dockers (and 1 less travel game).

Certainly though there would be no reason the AFL would expand in this way if it meant two extra clubs on longer term special funding arrangements like the Giants and the Suns. These are only justified on the basis that they are expanding the game
Like the first Tassie Devils team, nothing will evolve out of this one. Its just Gil kicking the can down the road, again. No AFL club has evolved out of anything.

You get an AFL license. Thats it. What goes before it matters not.

WA3 & Tas1. :)
 

jatz14

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Tassie deserves its own dark green two headed home grown mainland bashing monster, not a relocation. That's my dream, Devils and Tigers distributing the pain on a weekly basis for 52 weeks of the year, not just summer...

The economic reality of the situation is very blurry. This isn't 1996, where rationalisation was the name of the game, and membership and tv exposure and funding wasn't what it is today. Every team is receiving handy dividends and trading in the black or close enough, and all of those funds are earned by the product, not just given by the footy equivalent of Centrelink. Tassie wouldn't be Richmond or West Coast, but it would be as self-sufficient as North or Footscray, able to attract sponsors, and would also have the local government perpetually on board due to the proven tourism link AFL clubs have fostered there since 2001. While the government might have its own ideal as to what teams should be playing out of the state, they have no problem forking out regardless for the tourism boost, knowing no one will get on the boat across Bass Strait in the middle of winter otherwise. Pay for footy, keep the shops open in winter and build the odd hospital in Tassie, and you will never lose an election...

Couldn't speak for WA authoratively, but many WA and Eagles fans jumped ship or vacated their WC-free no man's land for Freo in 1995. Why wouldn't West Australians do the same for WA3 if it was a WA-grown team...? The rapidly-expanding population is greater than 24 years ago, and while the West Australian makes it seem so, not everyone is surgically attached to those two teams. That Eagles waiting list surely would have a down side, especially if you just wanted to go to the f###ing footy...! In 50 years, the place might be bursting at the seams with a potential new market, never mind much sooner...

I wouldn't completely write off the notion of new Victorian franchises either. We might all be old and grey with cobwebs on our arses if it happens, but the Victorian population will be Australia's largest in a few decades...
Many people in Perth were anti Eagles because of what they saw as the negative effect they had on the WAFL.

East and South Freo fans were also very parochial. Many of them saw WC as being a Perth team representing the Perth clubs, and therefore jumped on Freo when they came along.

Neither of those factors will be in play. There is no area of Perth with a distinct footballing culture around which to build a team, like occurred with Fremantle.

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Rob

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Perhaps the WA3 team could have a different model. More like MCG tenants where heaps of people could go for GA $25 entry and not $55+
I doubt the AFL would be particularly in favour of a low crowd/low price model.
Those models tend to require millions a year in AFL subsidies.

BTW West Coast's cheapest (adult) tickets this year are $57. Given they just returned a profit of $10m+, you'd think it would be a good story for the media if they weren't so much trying to kiss their arse.
 

Freomaniac

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How would you know that fans won't jump ship. Lets say a new team in Melbourne joined (now this won't happen at all but just listen to me) nobody would support them because their families have been supporting there team for 50+ years. now you put a 3rd team in WA, A state that only has 2 teams, people would instantly join the supporter base because they are their team. When the Dockers joined, the Eagles were only just in their 9th year, And if you add a new team in, the Eagles are into their 32nd year and Freo's in their 24th year. This doesn't mean that people will instantly go towards going for the other team but, If you have a gradual increase over couple of years, they could turn into a powerhouse supporter base. they would get at least 20,000 members in their first year (the Eagles have at leased 15,000 waiting list members)(this is just saying if they want to go for the new team). WA needs a 3rd team and the AFL needs a 3rd AFL team.
We all know most WA people Followed West coast in 1987. Then Freo came into the comp in 1995. The great myth is half of the Freo dockers supporters were ex-west coast fans. That's a half truth. You could also say a fair amount of West coast fans in 1987 are East freo ad South Freo fans that is also partially true. Freo supporters in 1995 consisted of these people.....

Option one: Some people didn't like West coast and support their VFL side. When Dockers came into the comp in 1995, some became freo fans due to hating West coast.

Option two: Some people are die hard Freo fans, east freo and south Freo to be exact. Some didn't bother with west coast. Once the dockers came into the comp, they followed the Dockers.

Option three: Some east freo and south Freo fans followed west coast in 1987 and then followed the dockers in 1995.

Option four: Some people were Claremont Supporters and loved Gerrard Neesham. He won flags at Claremont in 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993. Claremont supporters followed freo because of Neesham and their Claremont Premiership players.

there might be one or two other options missing.

Just thinking if Both the dockers and Eagles were still playing at Subiaco. This new Side would get 15-20,000 people at home then eventually grow to 30,000 people.

Perth isn't like Adelaide. Perths population is 2 million and its growing by 2% a year or 40,000 a year. Adelaides population is only 1.3 million and grows by 1% or 13,000.

So in 10 years time, Perths population will grow by 400,000, Adelaide grows by 130,000.
 

quotemokc

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We all know most WA people Followed West coast in 1987. Then Freo came into the comp in 1995. The great myth is half of the Freo dockers supporters were ex-west coast fans. That's a half truth. You could also say a fair amount of West coast fans in 1987 are East freo ad South Freo fans that is also partially true. Freo supporters in 1995 consisted of these people.....

Option one: Some people didn't like West coast and support their VFL side. When Dockers came into the comp in 1995, some became freo fans due to hating West coast.

Option two: Some people are die hard Freo fans, east freo and south Freo to be exact. Some didn't bother with west coast. Once the dockers came into the comp, they followed the Dockers.

Option three: Some east freo and south Freo fans followed west coast in 1987 and then followed the dockers in 1995.

Option four: Some people were Claremont Supporters and loved Gerrard Neesham. He won flags at Claremont in 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993. Claremont supporters followed freo because of Neesham and their Claremont Premiership players.

there might be one or two other options missing.

Just thinking if Both the dockers and Eagles were still playing at Subiaco. This new Side would get 15-20,000 people at home then eventually grow to 30,000 people.

Perth isn't like Adelaide. Perths population is 2 million and its growing by 2% a year or 40,000 a year. Adelaides population is only 1.3 million and grows by 1% or 13,000.

So in 10 years time, Perths population will grow by 400,000, Adelaide grows by 130,000.
Adelaide probably has a bigger population around it with people travelling in to the city than Perth does?

In the US its not uncommon for people to drive hundreds of miles from their town to the city or college town to attend games.
 

Freomaniac

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Adelaide probably has a bigger population around it with people travelling in to the city than Perth does?

In the US its not uncommon for people to drive hundreds of miles from their town to the city or college town to attend games.
The United States is a totally different beast. Yes there are 50 states in the US. Again totally different situation.

Now that you brought up college town. Time to bring up basket ball. I remember 4-6 years ago, Milwaukee took on Chicago in the NBA playoffs I think there is a 100 mile difference between the two cities.


Then you look at Texas. They have NBA teams in San Antonio, Houston and Dallas. All 3 cities have big populations.

In LA, you have 4 Basketball teams. Sacramento, Golden State (San Francisco) Warriors, LA Lakers and LA clippers. Clippers were at San diego at one point.

Ohio has their own big cities. Cleveland has got the cavs in basket ball, Cincinnati has got a baseball side. Dayton is another city on Ohio.

Then you have Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have their own sporting teams.

Florida has sporting teams in Orlando, Miami and Tampa Bay.
 

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The_Reaper

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Adelaide probably has a bigger population around it with people travelling in to the city than Perth does?

In the US its not uncommon for people to drive hundreds of miles from their town to the city or college town to attend games.
No?

Perth has Mandurah and Rockingham. SA is just Adelaide
 

madmug

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No?

Perth has Mandurah and Rockingham. SA is just Adelaide
Yes any reading of Geography will show Perth about 2million & another 700k spread over the vast rural areas. Bunbury is the second biggest population city at about 90k & 180km from Perth.

Adelaide 1.3million with another 400k spread far & wide as well. The next 2 cities are Mt Gambier & Whyalla both populations just over 20k are near 400km from Adelaide.
 

Kwality

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I am constantly amazed at how aged the WCE membership is, I do work at retirement villages all over Perth and the amount of retirees that are WCE members is amazing and they will not give up their memberships - which of course is there right, they will not sell back seats when not there for fear of offending people around them that they have known for 20 years.

It is quite the closed shop.
Not seen a report on the age of club supporters, although I have heard conversations on how membership churn at the Eagles is the lowest of all clubs albeit understandable.
 

Billy ray

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I saw something a while back where the number of junior members was like 5%. Adelaide was next lowest but still like 10%. Clubs like gws and mine were 50% plus and most melb clubs in the 20-25% range.

That’s going by memory and I can’t for life of me think where I saw it.
 

Rob

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I saw something a while back where the number of junior members was like 5%. Adelaide was next lowest but still like 10%. Clubs like gws and mine were 50% plus and most melb clubs in the 20-25% range.

That’s going by memory and I can’t for life of me think where I saw it.
It's not really surprising, by the time a kid gets off the waiting list they'll be an adult.
 

Kwality

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Pirates? You think a name more applicable to WA would suit? Perth ain't the Caribbean after all.

Perth Iron, Miners, Sharks, Quokkas :)
The Perth name wasnt used originally because of Perth Football Club, a proud & successful WAFL club.

Strange to see some posters suggesting the new club needs a geographic base ...... a long gone concept IMHO.
 

madmug

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The Perth name wasnt used originally because of Perth Football Club, a proud & successful WAFL club.

Strange to see some posters suggesting the new club needs a geographic base ...... a long gone concept IMHO.
Agree. I don't know Perth at all but the National Professional league is not about suburbs or bits of a city any more. Even in Melbourne the clubs are not suburban clubs any more. They may use their history & geography but must appeal much wider to sponsors & supporters than that.

So WA3 & Tas1. :)
 

eastfreo75

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Melbourne Storm, Perth Wildcats and Brisbane Heat are both cities and areas within the City.

If a third team came in, then Perth Pancakes would be fine and delicious.
 

1873 United

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Joondalup with a boutique 25-30K stadium might work?

But who knows, a business case would need to be raised, and from there a number of alternatives should be discussed to try and develop the best possible strategy to grow the league.

Tassie probably do deserve a team, but I can't see the AFL wanting to sit on 19 teams for any period of time, hence the need for 20.

Tassie will be a hard sell to the players, more so than the fans. After all, the Apple Isle doesn't offer the same lifestyle as the other big cities.

Let's be honest, a Tassie team would have 2 home grounds, the question is, which city would form the clubs real base?
 
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