Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

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madmug

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Joondalup with a boutique 25-30K stadium might work?

But who knows, a business case would need to be raised, and from there a number of alternatives should be discussed to try and develop the best possible strategy to grow the league.

Tassie probably do deserve a team, but I can't see the AFL wanting to sit on 19 teams for any period of time, hence the need for 20.

Tassie will be a hard sell to the players, more so than the fans. After all, the Apple Isle doesn't offer the same lifestyle as the other big cities.

Let's be honest, a Tassie team would have 2 home grounds, the question is, which city would form the clubs real base?
I think a team called Perth something & playing out of the send biggest Aussie rules stadium on the planet would be the simplest & best approach IMO.

Like the Tassie Tigers & Hurricanes it would be best to be based in Hobart. A city which has better lifestyle & professional medical infrastructure for an AFL club than anywhere else in the state. It is on a roll with popularity & good growth. Launceston is a great tourist town with period buildings, lovely rural areas around it & old industrial points of interest. Not my ideal place for attracting players IMO. Playing there is certainly not the same as living there.
 

jatz14

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The Perth name wasnt used originally because of Perth Football Club, a proud & successful WAFL club.

Strange to see some posters suggesting the new club needs a geographic base ...... a long gone concept IMHO.
I think your half right, but the half wrong bit is the bit that matters. Regional areas are not the be all and end all any more, true, but its still a base on which to build. Biggest A league club in Melbourne is Victory. Here is a prediction for you, Victory will always be the biggest club. Every club they add will be smaller, and will stay smaller than the previous club. The drop off will be steep, each club gets significantly less support than the previous.
It becomes non viable fast Unless, there are a group of supporters of an older club with a distinct reason to switch loyalties eg supporters of the WAFL Fremantle clubs switching to Fremantle.

Without a geographic driver to get access to a significant number of potential hardcore supporters, a new club will be significantly smaller than Freo, will always be significantly smaller than Freo, and that puts it in the non viable category.

And no, waiting lists and full stadiums for WC doesnt count as a driver for enough people to switch allegiance to be a base for a new club.
 

jatz14

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I realise I didnt explain that all that well.

For Victory, Melbourne is their geographic base. Adding another team in Melbourne without a distinct core geographic base gives 2 teams whose defacto base is Melbourne. But Victory have already swallowed most of the people who are into the A league in a big way. People going to every Victory game are hardly going to jump ship without a reason. Luke warm supporters of Victory are probably not going to become hard core supporters of someone else.
Every 'Melbourne' team you add makes the problem worse. How many potential hardcare A league fans are there in Melbourne not already welded onto Victory or City? This is why the new Vic team is based out of Melbourne.
 

eastfreo75

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I think your half right, but the half wrong bit is the bit that matters. Regional areas are not the be all and end all any more, true, but its still a base on which to build. Biggest A league club in Melbourne is Victory. Here is a prediction for you, Victory will always be the biggest club. Every club they add will be smaller, and will stay smaller than the previous club. The drop off will be steep, each club gets significantly less support than the previous.
It becomes non viable fast Unless, there are a group of supporters of an older club with a distinct reason to switch loyalties eg supporters of the WAFL Fremantle clubs switching to Fremantle.

Without a geographic driver to get access to a significant number of potential hardcore supporters, a new club will be significantly smaller than Freo, will always be significantly smaller than Freo, and that puts it in the non viable category.

And no, waiting lists and full stadiums for WC doesnt count as a driver for enough people to switch allegiance to be a base for a new club.
Totally agree.

Non viability of a third WA team isn’t the size of Perth but the third club will have less supporters than the Dockers.

May even make the Dockers non viable as well.

Unless the AFL wants to support another two teams financially for 10 plus years, it’s a no goer.
 

madmug

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I realise I didnt explain that all that well.

For Victory, Melbourne is their geographic base. Adding another team in Melbourne without a distinct core geographic base gives 2 teams whose defacto base is Melbourne. But Victory have already swallowed most of the people who are into the A league in a big way. People going to every Victory game are hardly going to jump ship without a reason. Luke warm supporters of Victory are probably not going to become hard core supporters of someone else.
Every 'Melbourne' team you add makes the problem worse. How many potential hardcare A league fans are there in Melbourne not already welded onto Victory or City? This is why the new Vic team is based out of Melbourne.
I don't think using 2 AL teams in Melbourne who never fill the rectangular stadium because the market isn't that big, is not a real good comparison. That against WCE who do fill a stadium of 60k, who have a waiting list, & in a city in which it seems a lot of kids don't get much chance to see AFL footy.

A bit more competition in Perth & more opportunity for kids to get to games, over time, must be good for the game. Surely
 

jatz14

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I don't think using 2 AL teams in Melbourne who never fill the rectangular stadium because the market isn't that big, is not a real good comparison. That against WCE who do fill a stadium of 60k, who have a waiting list, & in a city in which it seems a lot of kids don't get much chance to see AFL footy.

A bit more competition in Perth & more opportunity for kids to get to games, over time, must be good for the game. Surely
This is one of the problems. Competing for fans with WCE. Why would the AFL spend a large amount of money, to put a club in Perth which it is likely to have to support financially for a long time, in order to try to take fans away from WCE. Firstly, I do not think it will succeed terribly well. People big on their footy are to rusted on already, secondly, it just doesn't make good business sense.

A team in Tasmania makes much more sense.
 

NoobPie

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This is one of the problems. Competing for fans with WCE. Why would the AFL spend a large amount of money, to put a club in Perth which it is likely to have to support financially for a long time, in order to try to take fans away from WCE. Firstly, I do not think it will succeed terribly well. People big on their footy are to rusted on already, secondly, it just doesn't make good business sense.

A team in Tasmania makes much more sense.
The AFL wouldn't. The only reason it would happen is because the WAFC would think it worthwhile

It seems unlikely going off the concensus WA people's response around here but that is how it would happen if it were too. The new club would get the base distribution and WA (football, govt, corporates) would need to cover the rest. The derbies would be worth several million to start with
 
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It wouldn't be a great idea. The AFL will have to continue pouring money into the Gold Coast for years to come to get them viable both on and off the field, as well as GWS who, while doing well on the ground are still struggling to get the necessary members and sponsors to make them financially ok.
The WAFL is struggling now for publicity, with nothing in the West Australian for weeks. They dont even publish the results of the practice games. Another AFL team would spell the death of the WAFL.
 

Rob

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The Perth name wasnt used originally because of Perth Football Club, a proud & successful WAFL club.

Strange to see some posters suggesting the new club needs a geographic base ...... a long gone concept IMHO.
LOL rubbish.

Name 1 club in Australian sport that doesn't draw most of its support from a distinct geographical area.
 

eastfreo75

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Is it amazing WA people on here say it can’t happen but people in Melbourne know better.

A third WA team would be just like GWS but the only difference WCE and WA media would be actively aiming to destroy it.
 

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madmug

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It wouldn't be a great idea. The AFL will have to continue pouring money into the Gold Coast for years to come to get them viable both on and off the field, as well as GWS who, while doing well on the ground are still struggling to get the necessary members and sponsors to make them financially ok.
The WAFL is struggling now for publicity, with nothing in the West Australian for weeks. They dont even publish the results of the practice games. Another AFL team would spell the death of the WAFL.
The second tier of footy has been polished off by the media dominance of the AFL. Its a fact. So the aim surely is to maximise the exposure to the game of as many people & especially the young demographic.

I'm surprised at the negativity of some here who can't seem to see the trees for the wood.

If it costs $57minimum to see the WCE & a lot of kids don't get to the football, that shows an underserviced market. Is that so difficult? 2 teams in 2million in Perth, 9 teams in 5 million in Melbourne. I don't get it. Where is the equity & commercial thinking?

WA3 Tas1.
 

madmug

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Not enough talent. Essendon have five or six players who should not be on our list but are due to the talent shortage.
Whose fault?

1984 nations population 15mil. Essendon flag ( 1985). 12 teams VFL & opposition from SANFL & WAFL for talent. Bugger all coming from Qld NSW.

2018 nations population 25mil. Now everything talentwise is directed towards the 18 team AFL.

Essendons own fault perhaps.?
 

windyhill

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Whose fault?

1984 nations population 15mil. Essendon flag ( 1985). 12 teams VFL & opposition from SANFL & WAFL for talent. Bugger all coming from Qld NSW.

2018 nations population 25mil. Now everything talentwise is directed towards the 18 team AFL.

Essendons own fault perhaps.?
Two new teams stretched resources (talent) another would naturally go that next step. I'm all for the job opportunities it would create but it would dilute an already weakened product.
 

NoobPie

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Is it amazing WA people on here say it can’t happen but people in Melbourne know better.

A third WA team would be just like GWS but the only difference WCE and WA media would be actively aiming to destroy it.
Well I explicitly noted that wa people not thinking it's a good idea suggests it isn't

I did see a clip of the mayor's of Joondalup and peel both insisting that they are the best prospect for the next club though
 

Kwality

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LOL rubbish.

Name 1 club in Australian sport that doesn't draw most of its support from a distinct geographical area.
Looking backwards you are correct, be it a suburb, a capital city, a State, looking forward from the mid 80s, West Coast Eagles, yes West Coast is geographical but a step away/forward .... GWS in the same vein ..... a step away from Adelaide Football Club, Fremantle Football Club.

Would a club based up Joondalup way be limited in its name, only if it wanted to limit its appeal, the Eagles name was all inclusive.
 

NoobPie

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Looking backwards you are correct, be it a suburb, a capital city, a State, looking forward from the mid 80s, West Coast Eagles, yes West Coast is geographical but a step away/forward .... GWS in the same vein ..... a step away from Adelaide Football Club, Fremantle Football Club.

Would a club based up Joondalup way be limited in its name, only if it wanted to limit its appeal, the Eagles name was all inclusive.
Wce and GWS both attempted to represent a broader geographical area in their name selections

Adding a second team to Perth only has a chance if it adopted a very specific geographical area
 

Kwality

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The second tier of footy has been polished off by the media dominance of the AFL. Its a fact. So the aim surely is to maximise the exposure to the game of as many people & especially the young demographic.

I'm surprised at the negativity of some here who can't seem to see the trees for the wood.

If it costs $57minimum to see the WCE & a lot of kids don't get to the football, that shows an underserviced market. Is that so difficult? 2 teams in 2million in Perth, 9 teams in 5 million in Melbourne. I don't get it. Where is the equity & commercial thinking?

WA3 Tas1.
There is a difference between a good 2nd tier footballer & a good AFL footballer, if it helps I can offer an example from my club Subi, still my #1 love in footy terms, a good AFL footballer:
take Daniel Rich , 2 x Subi flags, early draft pick, subject to injury will play his 200 at the Lions in 2019,
versus a good 2nd tier footballer:
Kyal Horsley, from Kalgoorlie in the Subi WAFL zone, B&F Subi 2011, drafted to Gold Coast & debuted 2012 playing 13 games, only 1 in 2013 & delisted, returned to Subi, B&Fs 2014/2018 ... for more https://thewest.com.au/sport/wafl/w...orsley-is-the-wafls-best-player-ng-b88788389z

More clubs, more players in the AFL pool, the lower the level between an AFL player & a 2nd tier player, a journeyman. Kyal is a Subi great, Rich is a product of Subis junior development program.

The need to maintain so many clubs in Melbourne is holding back our game at the elite level - State of Origin morphed out of the State League era as the best v the best & the national comp was supposed to be that, its not now, & more teams is not a step forward IMHO. I say that as a strong supporter of a team in Tas.
 

NoobPie

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What remarkable insight to what makes WA tick.
Wow, you're a lovely guy aren't you?

I've twice now acknowledged that wa people will have far more insight about a WA3 clubs chances than east coasters

None of the other west Aussies appear to be agreeing with you
 

madmug

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There is a difference between a good 2nd tier footballer & a good AFL footballer, if it helps I can offer an example from my club Subi, still my #1 love in footy terms, a good AFL footballer:
take Daniel Rich , 2 x Subi flags, early draft pick, subject to injury will play his 200 at the Lions in 2019,
versus a good 2nd tier footballer:
Kyal Horsley, from Kalgoorlie in the Subi WAFL zone, B&F Subi 2011, drafted to Gold Coast & debuted 2012 playing 13 games, only 1 in 2013 & delisted, returned to Subi, B&Fs 2014/2018 ... for more https://thewest.com.au/sport/wafl/w...orsley-is-the-wafls-best-player-ng-b88788389z

More clubs, more players in the AFL pool, the lower the level between an AFL player & a 2nd tier player, a journeyman. Kyal is a Subi great, Rich is a product of Subis junior development program.

The need to maintain so many clubs in Melbourne is holding back our game at the elite level - State of Origin morphed out of the State League era as the best v the best & the national comp was supposed to be that, its not now, & more teams is not a step forward IMHO. I say that as a strong supporter of a team in Tas.
Now that you mention it, my last post points to the need for equity & balance. The AFL simply came into being as a VFL life support system. All other state leagues were crushed. But Its still not enough for some.

It seems the non Victorian states are still squeezed until their pips squeak just to maintain the 'Home' advantage. Its really a national league in name only. If it were meant to be 'best v best' , then their wouldn't be 10 clubs close to Melbourne. Perhaps not 2 clubs in SE Qld. Certainly 3 clubs in Perth if it were a sensible 18 team comp. But its not.
 

eastfreo75

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Now that you mention it, my last post points to the need for equity & balance. The AFL simply came into being as a VFL life support system. All other state leagues were crushed. But Its still not enough for some.

It seems the non Victorian states are still squeezed until their pips squeak just to maintain the 'Home' advantage. Its really a national league in name only. If it were meant to be 'best v best' , then their wouldn't be 10 clubs close to Melbourne. Perhaps not 2 clubs in SE Qld. Certainly 3 clubs in Perth if it were a sensible 18 team comp. But its not.
The structure from the start was VFL plus which wasn’t a great foundation.

If we started as National competition, then three WA teams would have worked eg

East Fremantle/South Fremantle forming Fremantle

Perth/Swans/East Perth forming Eastern District

Claremont/Subiaco/West Perth forming Northern Perth
 
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