Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
Very bad idea. Freo struggle to get more than 40,000 already at the new stadium and they have been in the AFL for 25 years so a new team from scratch would struggle even more!
Spot on :thumbsdown:, North pull 23k v the Lions & the AFL have to bail them (again) out after 100 + years in the comp, now that is struggler NOT Freo.

Man up, 40k would even fill the Cattery, does your thought process run to transparency, there are far too many teams in Melbourne & they are holding the game back.
 

kranger

Senior List
Nov 30, 2006
298
133
Kalamunda
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Swan District
There should not be a 3rd Perth team. Realistically another team in the West will be based in Perth as there is no where else in Western Australia it could go.

But Freo and Eagles cater for Perth well. An AFL game is at Perth Stadium each week.

Residents already have their team they support, either Eagles or Freo, or even a non-WA team. Why would anyone in an existing market change to a new team?

The two teams already suck up sponshorship money from all the relevant businesses. So a third team won’t bring anything new.

Just because Eagles and Freo are successful off the field, it doesn’t mean they should be diluted, to be brought down to the level struggling Victorian teams are at.

If anything there needs to be less east coast teams to raise their level of financial stability, as well as reduce the number of players in the AFL to lift the quality of skill of players remaining.

Instead, focus in western Australia should be to improve the WAFL and get more people going to those games, if families are really missing out on not going to AFL games. Because then you have 9 more successful clubs in WA that can grow the game, instead of just 1 new AFL team.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
Now that you mention it, my last post points to the need for equity & balance. The AFL simply came into being as a VFL life support system. All other state leagues were crushed. But Its still not enough for some.

It seems the non Victorian states are still squeezed until their pips squeak just to maintain the 'Home' advantage. Its really a national league in name only. If it were meant to be 'best v best' , then their wouldn't be 10 clubs close to Melbourne. Perhaps not 2 clubs in SE Qld. Certainly 3 clubs in Perth if it were a sensible 18 team comp. But its not.
Further to my suggestion that there is a big gap between AFL footy & the second tier, from todays West:
https://thewest.com.au/sport/wafl/t...rsley-still-king-of-the-jungle-ng-b881155450z
The West Australian’s top 40 WAFL players: Subiaco Lions star Kyal Horsley still king of the jungle

There are just not enough players of AFL standard in the second tier for more teams, BUT there are too many teams in the Melbourne market.
 
Last edited:

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
There should not be a 3rd Perth team. Realistically another team in the West will be based in Perth as there is no where else in Western Australia it could go.

But Freo and Eagles cater for Perth well. An AFL game is at Perth Stadium each week.

Residents already have their team they support, either Eagles or Freo, or even a non-WA team. Why would anyone in an existing market change to a new team?

The two teams already suck up sponshorship money from all the relevant businesses. So a third team won’t bring anything new.

Just because Eagles and Freo are successful off the field, it doesn’t mean they should be diluted, to be brought down to the level struggling Victorian teams are at.

If anything there needs to be less east coast teams to raise their level of financial stability, as well as reduce the number of players in the AFL to lift the quality of skill of players remaining.

Instead, focus in western Australia should be to improve the WAFL and get more people going to those games, if families are really missing out on not going to AFL games. Because then you have 9 more successful clubs in WA that can grow the game, instead of just 1 new AFL team.
I know it goes against the grain for some but NRL immortal Andrew Johns wants to go back to 12 teams:
https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/andrew...rl-clubs/a140122b-d9b6-4de1-9cb6-efae12c09a3a
 

caspian

Team Captain
Jan 6, 2019
416
669
AFL Club
West Coast
The Southwest has all the right ingredients apart from population. Distinct sporting culture from Perth, strong regional identity, strong footy history. Population just needs to triple.
Huge footy following-relative to population. But yeah, that's the kicker. The local footy league gets a big percentage of Bunbury's populace to attend every year; the final goes off. But we're talking like a few thousand out of 70,000ish.

I'm not convinced on the regional identity either. Well, it's there, but fairly half arsed, it's no Launceston/Hobart thing. "Perth sucks because the traffic is shit" is probably the extent of the rivalry. I couldn't see any big fans of WC/Freo down here being willing to change their allegiance because suddenly there's a "South West Surfers" or whatever playing in the AFL.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
Jul 9, 2010
24,175
26,463
AFL Club
Fremantle
There is nowhere distinct enough in Perth for a third club and nowhere anywhere else big enough in Western Australia.

I personally think Bunbury is a bit of a crappy town for football. Kalgoorlie probably has the best country league in the state and an okay population as well as easy access to Perth.

Albany and the Southern Districts league as it was called has birthed a fu**load of talent - going back mostly to guys who played for Claremont and in the VFL like the Krakouers.

A current team would have Aaron Sandilands tapping down to Nat Fyfe, with a McGovern at either end. Young Jordan Clark is going well at Geelong and Marley Williams has played a hundred games. Multiple others also on lists. It’s not a bad core group.

Southern Districts... Pioneers? Oldest town in WA, Anzac history, fu**loads of rain all mean there’s good name potentials.

It would be interesting to see how a country club from an actual footy state would go (the Cats excluded obviously). There are hundreds of towns who have had strong completions for a hundred years, old clubs, have provided so many AFL footballers, where the passion has never been questioned... in fact with less to do, sport is probably a more powerful social, important tool in country people’s lives.

No town has had a WAFL or a SANFL club, but they’ve always watched footy.

Would be interesting to see.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
Jul 9, 2010
24,175
26,463
AFL Club
Fremantle
I think Peel pre-fremantle's involvement is a fairly good answer to your "would be interesting to see" question, SilentAlarm
Mandurah is a satellite town and basically these days just another sprawled suburb. That's what I mean – Mandurah, Joondalup are always earmarked for these things but they're both as far from Perth city as each other. Plus ya know, WAFL v AFL.
 

caspian

Team Captain
Jan 6, 2019
416
669
AFL Club
West Coast
If anything, the differences would be even bigger. Less crowds, less money, good luck with player retention in Albany or Geraldton or Kalgoorlie (much as I love regional WA, there's a reason most people live in Perth).
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
19,611
9,398
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
I think Peel pre-fremantle's involvement is a fairly good answer to your "would be interesting to see" question, SilentAlarm
Mandurah would be interesting. Imagine them in a small 30,000 seat stadium like Geelongs ground? Then play half of their games at the perth arena.

I still wonder if Subiaco wasn't demolished and kept their 43,000 seat capacity. The 3rd WA side would somehow fill half of it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,053
445
AFL Club
Fremantle
I'm still amazed that this thread is still limping along.
The WCE were created and named to represent the state and they indeed started out as a state team.
With a little forward thinking they would have chosen the name Perth, but they didn't and changing to "Perth" was later rejected by WCE members.
With hindsight, the creation of the Fremantle Dockers was obvious to balance the WCE and to have AFL every week in Perth.

Now we have to think what is obvious hindsight looking back from the future. There are three options.
1.Contraction - likely in only contracting the number of teams in Melbourne.
2, Status quo - 18 teams form a supporters p.o.v. is already on the verge of too many without going to a conference system.
3. Expansion - the number of AFL locations will expand but probably by relocation rather than new teams.

There are two philosophies. Build stronger entities or go down the boutique path.
Interstate state teams are looking at getting stronger and stronger with Goldcoast, Geelong and Docklands teams
looking at the boutique model. As well we have games at small venues around the country in
Darwin, Alice Springs, Canberra, Cairns, Townsville, Launceston, Hobart and wellington NZ.

Perth has grown big so fas that it could support another boutique AFL team - not Joondalup or Mandurah but Perth,
but would a another Perth team and a stand-alone Tasmanian team add that much to the AFL?
Personally I believe the AFL will continue with a shared model with those smaller cities and will add new venues.
People feel rightly miffed that the AFL puts the AFL's interests first but that doesn't worry me.

I have been attending the WAFL and I find it so much more enjoyable.
Gone is the congestion of AFL games and prertentious umpring.
Gone is the cost of entry and high priced concessions.
Gone is the bleating of AFL fans replaced by the connivial atmosphere of true Australian Football.
I would recommend to everyone that they reconnect with their local footy club and start enjoying what football is all about.
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player
Sep 10, 2010
3,560
4,097
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I still wonder if Subiaco wasn't demolished and kept their 43,000 seat capacity. The 3rd WA side would somehow fill half of it.
I openly admit I know very little about Perth and the landscape of supporters. That said, isn't Subiaco the richest WAFL club at the moment? Would they be able to survive in the AFL playing out of a boutique Subiaco Oval?
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
Mandurah is a satellite town and basically these days just another sprawled suburb. That's what I mean – Mandurah, Joondalup are always earmarked for these things but they're both as far from Perth city as each other. Plus ya know, WAFL v AFL.
To what extent does anything the WAFL does impact on the AFL?

Not a Dorothy Dixer, clearly the WAFL junior development program produces more AFL footballers than the WA sides need, pumps up the AFL player pool. Is that WAFC really not WAFL?
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
I openly admit I know very little about Perth and the landscape of supporters. That said, isn't Subiaco the richest WAFL club at the moment? Would they be able to survive in the AFL playing out of a boutique Subiaco Oval?
Big NO, couldnt back when we won the 1986 flag (last flag with full strength WAFL sides), cant now & wouldnt attract any significant uncommitted AFL followers*.
We could tap ex committeeman Kerry Stokes for a sponsorship, not likely.
Think Subi.

PS: we play out of Leederville Oval now (2004).

*not sure anyone would be prepared to put a number on this group, more than a hundred, less than a thousand.
 
Last edited:

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
19,611
9,398
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
I openly admit I know very little about Perth and the landscape of supporters. That said, isn't Subiaco the richest WAFL club at the moment? Would they be able to survive in the AFL playing out of a boutique Subiaco Oval?
Unlikely in the short term. Long term maybe. I mean if freo from 1995-2014 is anything to go by. Freo were constantly bleeding money from 1995-2001. Freo were 8 million in debt in 2001. They were only getting around 15-20,000 at Subiaco. Made finals in 2003 then the Band wagoners jumped in. Been averaging 30,000 per home game from 2004-6. Averaged 37,000 in 2007 off the back of a prelim in 2006. Ever since 2003, freo made profit. By Mid 2009, not only freos 8 million dollar debt was gone, they had also 5 million in cash reserves.

Subiaco would get 15-20,000 people at 1st. Once they have a developed side 3-5 years into their AFL existence, They could average 25-30,000 in a 43,500 seat Subiaco oval.

Keep in mind WAs population grows like 40-45,000 people every year.

it would have to be a 20-30 year plan like GWS, Gold coast and to a small degree freo.

Big NO, couldnt back when we won the 1986 flag (last flag with full strength WAFL sides), cant now & wouldn't attract any significant uncommitted AFL followers*.
We could tap ex committeeman Kerry Stokes for a sponsorship, not likely.
Think Subi.

PS: we play out of Leederville Oval now (2004).

*not sure anyone would be prepared to put a number on this group, more than a hundred, less than a thousand.
Depends. As I said it would take time and money to start it all up.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
28,426
14,595
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Unlikely in the short term. Long term maybe. I mean if freo from 1995-2014 is anything to go by. Freo were constantly bleeding money from 1995-2001.
That's not entirely correct. Fremantle were actually quite profitable in their first few years of existence, it wasn't until annus horribilis in 2001 that there were any financial issues, which was a mix of a drop in crowds (i.e revenue) and some incredibly poor financial decisions. However, it was a different environment then with it being a lot cheaper to run a football club.

About Subiaco, the only reason they're wealthy is because they were able to sell hundreds of seats at Subi Oval to every AFL game there, something no other club had. It certainly wasn't because of their huge supporter base. If anything they've got the smallest number of fans in the WAFL. If not for their Subi Oval deal then they probably would have relocated to the outer suburbs or merged with Claremont.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
24,191
8,572
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
That's not entirely correct. Fremantle were actually quite profitable in their first few years of existence, it wasn't until annus horribilis in 2001 that there were any financial issues, which was a mix of a drop in crowds (i.e revenue) and some incredibly poor financial decisions. However, it was a different environment then with it being a lot cheaper to run a football club.

About Subiaco, the only reason they're wealthy is because they were able to sell hundreds of seats at Subi Oval to every AFL game there, something no other club had. It certainly wasn't because of their huge supporter base. If anything they've got the smallest number of fans in the WAFL. If not for their Subi Oval deal then they probably would have relocated to the outer suburbs or merged with Claremont.
A bit of history on Subi & its footy club.
For many years after WW2 the only WAFL club without a (liquor) licence was Subi, the licence at Subi was held by the WAFL Members Club* & it was not until the early 70s it got on the same footing ($s) was the early 70s, coincindentally about the time they broke a 49 year droght winning the 73 flag.
You are right about Subi & its wealth, dont remember any serious suggestion of a merge. If there were to be a WAFL club to be awarded an AFL licence it wouldnt be Subi, & I'd suggest the halcyon days of supporting the WAFL is long gone, much as it saddens me to acknowledge.

* the WAFL Members Club went the way of the dodo after the national comp, its called progress, shame the AFL Members Club hasnt followed it.
 

kid_a

Club Legend
Apr 5, 2010
2,117
945
Port Hedland
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Glory, Hammarby, Ajax, Canadiens
There should not be a 3rd Perth team. Realistically another team in the West will be based in Perth as there is no where else in Western Australia it could go.

But Freo and Eagles cater for Perth well. An AFL game is at Perth Stadium each week.

Residents already have their team they support, either Eagles or Freo, or even a non-WA team. Why would anyone in an existing market change to a new team?

The two teams already suck up sponshorship money from all the relevant businesses. So a third team won’t bring anything new.

Just because Eagles and Freo are successful off the field, it doesn’t mean they should be diluted, to be brought down to the level struggling Victorian teams are at.

If anything there needs to be less east coast teams to raise their level of financial stability, as well as reduce the number of players in the AFL to lift the quality of skill of players remaining.

Instead, focus in western Australia should be to improve the WAFL and get more people going to those games, if families are really missing out on not going to AFL games. Because then you have 9 more successful clubs in WA that can grow the game, instead of just 1 new AFL team.
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player
Sep 10, 2010
3,560
4,097
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Realistically another team in the West will be based in Perth as there is no where else in Western Australia it could go.
This much I agree with.

But Freo and Eagles cater for Perth well. An AFL game is at Perth Stadium each week.
Two games on some weeks is better than one.

Residents already have their team they support, either Eagles or Freo, or even a non-WA team. Why would anyone in an existing market change to a new team?
Because Eagles tickets are at ridiculous prices, they pretty much have a licence to print money. If we want this to continue for generations, the status quo is fine. If not, they need more competition. It'll take 15 years to bed in though.

The two teams already suck up sponshorship money from all the relevant businesses. So a third team won’t bring anything new.
All the relevant businesses? Every single one? Because I could have sworn there are plenty of companies operating in WA that aren't sponsoring either team. Even just from their former sponsors I can point to Bankwest, SGIO, Alinta etc. Plenty of other resources companies out there for a start.

Just because Eagles and Freo are successful off the field, it doesn’t mean they should be diluted, to be brought down to the level struggling Victorian teams are at.
It's funny that you're trying to put Freo on the same pedestal as West Coast off the field. They're not equal, West Coast are the most profitable club in Australia by some margin. A third team wouldn't reduce either existing team to the level of the bottom four Victorian clubs financially, they'd still be comparable to the top six. Why should West Coast continue to have a licence to print money for generations to come, just because the closed shop AFL decided one team per million people in a footy mad state is a good idea? This isn't the 90s anymore, Perth is much bigger and wealthier now, it can take a third club.

If anything there needs to be less east coast teams to raise their level of financial stability, as well as reduce the number of players in the AFL to lift the quality of skill of players remaining.
Another person who wants to kill clubs, that are conveniently not their own. How surprising. The talent pool argument has always been nonsense too, we somehow had the players for more than 18 first tier clubs in the 70s, but not now? With a bigger population and more money on offer?

Instead, focus in western Australia should be to improve the WAFL and get more people going to those games, if families are really missing out on not going to AFL games. Because then you have 9 more successful clubs in WA that can grow the game, instead of just 1 new AFL team.
Relatively few people care about watching an inferior league. They want to see the best of the best playing. I shouldn't need to say this, it should be obvious from how much every state league has declined. And I don't see any renaissance of big crowds coming to state league games ever again. Growing the game properly means more clubs at the top level.
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player
Sep 10, 2010
3,560
4,097
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
The number of Western Australians demanding trades home is big and increasing, and I think it'll only continue to increase as the population boom of the past 15 years results in more WA footballers being produced. Freo and West Coast have a big recruitment advantage in that sense since there are only two clubs to divvy up the returning talent. Look at Freo's trade period this past year, and soon Tim Kelly will be adding to the numbers for either them or West Coast. So another reason I want a third team from Perth is to provide more competition for returnees. This new team should do reasonably well with the talent they can attract back, and we all know that success breeds crowds and support.
 

Top Bottom