Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

Ned_Flanders

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TBH, I reckon if it was something that people thought would get a bit of traction most Perth locals would be in favour of it.

It's just that there isn't an obvious gap in the market where you could put a team that's capable of doing that.
Put them in ochre, and watch half the wce members switch to reunite with their favourite kit!!!!
 

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kranger

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Heres a bit of a different perspective on a WA3 team.

Victoria probably have 2 teams too many to be reasonably financially viable. However through long term supporters for the specific teams and the benefits to the AFL such as fixturing more games at the MCG and Docklands for greater bargaining power on stadium deals, the AFL financially assists some of the smaller Vic teams to a greater extent than the larger AFL teams.

Well these teams that get extra AFL money, and have national sponsors provide economic benefits to Victoria, by employing more people with the extra two teams, such as receptionists, physio’s, ground keepers etc. As well as the higher paid CEO’s and players who would have otherwise been at other teams.

But this means there are people with higher incomes spending money in the local economy, and more jobs for locals. There is also more jobs as a result of there being more game days, with ground staff and vendors and public transport staff.


Perhaps a push for a WA3 should be pushed for by West Aussies, for the economic benefits for the state, not for the AFL.

More games being played at Optus Stadium could increase the revenue to the stadium management and bring down rent costs to Eagles and Freo. Transperth would have to put on more event services so other users can have additional frequency.

One of the WAFL grounds can get upgraded and draw in Federal funding like what happens with the Melbourne clubs to support the new clubs training facilities, with other community facilities.

Lets get WA3 for State parochialism.

In saying that, I still dont think there should be a WA3.
 

Kwality

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Heres a bit of a different perspective on a WA3 team.

Victoria probably have 2 teams too many to be reasonably financially viable. However through long term supporters for the specific teams and the benefits to the AFL such as fixturing more games at the MCG and Docklands for greater bargaining power on stadium deals, the AFL financially assists some of the smaller Vic teams to a greater extent than the larger AFL teams.

Well these teams that get extra AFL money, and have national sponsors provide economic benefits to Victoria, by employing more people with the extra two teams, such as receptionists, physio’s, ground keepers etc. As well as the higher paid CEO’s and players who would have otherwise been at other teams.

But this means there are people with higher incomes spending money in the local economy, and more jobs for locals. There is also more jobs as a result of there being more game days, with ground staff and vendors and public transport staff.


Perhaps a push for a WA3 should be pushed for by West Aussies, for the economic benefits for the state, not for the AFL.

More games being played at Optus Stadium could increase the revenue to the stadium management and bring down rent costs to Eagles and Freo. Transperth would have to put on more event services so other users can have additional frequency.

One of the WAFL grounds can get upgraded and draw in Federal funding like what happens with the Melbourne clubs to support the new clubs training facilities, with other community facilities.

Lets get WA3 for State parochialism.

In saying that, I still dont think there should be a WA3.
You put the case, well done, like you I dont think it would work either.

The club in Tas for similar reasoning.

I'm of the view that there is demand for AFL footy in WA being ignored & I'd like to see it addressed, but we are stuck with the old outdated home & away concept & its choking us.
We dont play each other twice on any structured basis that was the basis of the State based systems e.g the 12 team VFL playing each other twice, one each home/away. An 8 team WAFL played each other 3 times, 2 at home one away in the first year, alternating the next year 1 at home, 2 away.
Fairness got a gig!!

Now its a FIXture based on something sometimes, fairness is not a consideration.

The home & away concept as the AFL practice it is broken IMHO.

The Tiges gave up playing home games at Punt Rd in 1964 & share the MCG to this day. 55 years on we hang on to a damaged concept that must be addressed.
We all know home games are about memberships these days, about money.

For WA both clubs get to play 12 games each at Optus, of the clubs that share the MCG in 2019 Collingwood are there 14 times, Richmond 13, & Melbourne 12. (file:///C:/Users/lenor/Downloads/2019_AFL_Premiership_Season_Fixture_MCG.pdf)
There is nothing sacred about how often you play at your home ground.
For example members of both North & the Bulldogs could be accommodated at the G attended by members of both clubs, a marque game with a BIG crowd, a sell out even.

I'd like to see more games in WA with preference given to non members to go to games. Yes, it puts an extra travel burden on another club, just as the China game, so its not unknown. There is nothing equal about travel in the AFL.
The AFL currently FIXture home games out of Melbourne to Darwin & Alice Springs, Townsville, Launceston & Hobart, & Ballarat - there is an oversupply of footy in Melbourne even after moving these games & more games in Geelong.

Time to look at what we are doing.
 

Ned_Flanders

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You put the case, well done, like you I dont think it would work either.

The club in Tas for similar reasoning.

I'm of the view that there is demand for AFL footy in WA being ignored & I'd like to see it addressed, but we are stuck with the old outdated home & away concept & its choking us.
We dont play each other twice on any structured basis that was the basis of the State based systems e.g the 12 team VFL playing each other twice, one each home/away. An 8 team WAFL played each other 3 times, 2 at home one away in the first year, alternating the next year 1 at home, 2 away.
Fairness got a gig!!

Now its a FIXture based on something sometimes, fairness is not a consideration.

The home & away concept as the AFL practice it is broken IMHO.

The Tiges gave up playing home games at Punt Rd in 1964 & share the MCG to this day. 55 years on we hang on to a damaged concept that must be addressed.
We all know home games are about memberships these days, about money.

For WA both clubs get to play 12 games each at Optus, of the clubs that share the MCG in 2019 Collingwood are there 14 times, Richmond 13, & Melbourne 12. (file:///C:/Users/lenor/Downloads/2019_AFL_Premiership_Season_Fixture_MCG.pdf)
There is nothing sacred about how often you play at your home ground.
For example members of both North & the Bulldogs could be accommodated at the G attended by members of both clubs, a marque game with a BIG crowd, a sell out even.

I'd like to see more games in WA with preference given to non members to go to games. Yes, it puts an extra travel burden on another club, just as the China game, so its not unknown. There is nothing equal about travel in the AFL.
The AFL currently FIXture home games out of Melbourne to Darwin & Alice Springs, Townsville, Launceston & Hobart, & Ballarat - there is an oversupply of footy in Melbourne even after moving these games & more games in Geelong.

Time to look at what we are doing.
Again, we didn't choose to leave punt road, we had to because we lost one of our stands when punt road was widened,and the oval became egg shaped

In hindsight it was a great move for us, but I wonder if the initial opposition to our move (from the other vfl clubs) would have waned if it wasn't for out ground becoming not fit for purpose
 

Carringbush2010

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There are people going to Eagles games now whos parents were born after the Eagles were founded. Victorians might (seem to?) assume that because a club like Collingwood is much older, that its fans care more, are more likely to fight for, or be upset by, AFL doing things to their club. However, a person following a club passionately, would not be more passionate, just because their great uncle also supported that club.

The Eagles are as big as Collingwood, and have fans just as passionate as Collingwood fans, but the Eagles in the Perth market are WAAAAY bigger than Collingwood is in the Melbourne market. It would not be far off to say 1 in every 2 people in WA that follow AFL follow the Eagles.

So imagine a future scenario were to arise, where some bigwigs in AFL house decided it would be in the interest of football for Collingwood to be split into 2 new clubs. What would happen?

Now double or triple that, and that is what happens in Perth if someone from the AFL were to float the idea of splitting the Eagles. Perth would go ******* ballistic. It would be the biggest cluster******* s**t show in Australian sports history by a mile.

If the AFL wanted to perform one act that would cause the greatest number of fans to tell them to take their league and shove it up their arse, and embroil the AFL in law suites and s**t for a decade, that would be it.

It is NEVER happening.

Without it happening, a third team is next to impossible.

Therefore, a third team is next to impossible.
Spot on post! Being a perth resident I can categorically confirm that NO WC fan will accept "splitting" them to create another franchise.

The ONLY way I can see a 3rd WA team is for a big WAFL club being granted a licence. The only issue with that is the more "senior" WC and Freo fans may jump off the bandwagon and go back to that original WAFL club - that may possibly be very large numbers.

The upside though would be a less time waiting list for aspiring WC members or maybe no waiting list!
 

Kwality

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Spot on post! Being a perth resident I can categorically confirm that NO WC fan will accept "splitting" them to create another franchise.

The ONLY way I can see a 3rd WA team is for a big WAFL club being granted a licence. The only issue with that is the more "senior" WC and Freo fans may jump off the bandwagon and go back to that original WAFL club - that may possibly be very large numbers.

The upside though would be a less time waiting list for aspiring WC members or maybe no waiting list!
Having lived thru 1987 it'd be a long time until the side got any traction, has any WAFL club got substantial support?
The idea Eagles fans might adopt the WAFL club of their parents is hopeful at best, & that they'd be a significant number in terms of Eagles membership is dubious ..
Reality is starting a 3rd club in WA would be hard work.
 

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Carringbush2010

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Having lived thru 1987 it'd be a long time until the side got any traction, has any WAFL club got substantial support?
The idea Eagles fans might adopt the WAFL club of their parents is hopeful at best, & that they'd be a significant number in terms of Eagles membership is dubious ..
Reality is starting a 3rd club in WA would be hard work.
I'm actually talking about the parents who supported WAFL clubs before the WC inception. There'd be a lot of them I imagine, if I'm wrong then a brand new team will have almost zero support - so yeah maybe the idea doesn't have any traction to begin with.
 

jatz14

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I'm actually talking about the parents who supported WAFL clubs before the WC inception. There'd be a lot of them I imagine, if I'm wrong then a brand new team will have almost zero support - so yeah maybe the idea doesn't have any traction to begin with.
That is 1/8 WAFL fans to draw on. A good percentage have stopped following the WAFL altogether. A good percentage are so bolted to the Eagles they will not swap.

That doesn't leave a lot of people to base a new AFL side on.

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Rob

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I'm actually talking about the parents who supported WAFL clubs before the WC inception. There'd be a lot of them I imagine, if I'm wrong then a brand new team will have almost zero support - so yeah maybe the idea doesn't have any traction to begin with.
There wouldn't be many of them left, and a huge majority of those that are would be more attached to their AFL club and likely wouldn't switch back.

If you think about it, Perth had less than 900k people in 1986. Of those, around 300k or so are dead, and probably another 100k are going to have been too young to have any memory of the WAFL. So you're left with about 500k people - under a quarter of the population of Perth now - that remember the WAFL when it was popular. And any given WAFL club would have at most 1/6th of that. So in terms of potential supporters from the old days, that's less than 100k. And that's assuming that everyone back then followed the WAFL - which is obviously false, so you can probably lop off 2/3rds of that, and that those left over would go back to their club - which is also false, so you can probably halve it again. Giving you a potential supporter base of less than 20,000 people.

It would be an unmitigated disaster.
 

Carringbush2010

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There wouldn't be many of them left, and a huge majority of those that are would be more attached to their AFL club and likely wouldn't switch back.

If you think about it, Perth had less than 900k people in 1986. Of those, around 300k or so are dead, and probably another 100k are going to have been too young to have any memory of the WAFL. So you're left with about 500k people - under a quarter of the population of Perth now - that remember the WAFL when it was popular. And any given WAFL club would have at most 1/6th of that. So in terms of potential supporters from the old days, that's less than 100k. And that's assuming that everyone back then followed the WAFL - which is obviously false, so you can probably lop off 2/3rds of that, and that those left over would go back to their club - which is also false, so you can probably halve it again. Giving you a potential supporter base of less than 20,000 people.

It would be an unmitigated disaster.
Good points, so in reality a 3rd WA club would have almost zero viability.
 

Carringbush2010

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Well, not as a WAFL club anyway.

There is theoretically enough support in WA to support 3 clubs pretty comfortably. Finding the right concept is problematic.
And that's the problem if it weren't a big WAFL club there'd be almost zero support for a brand new one, much less for the newy. Enough likelihood to close the thread even.
 

coniglio_number1

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And that's the problem if it weren't a big WAFL club there'd be almost zero support for a brand new one, much less for the newy. Enough likelihood to close the thread even.
Only way it could work is to be a regional team such as Geraldton or Albany. But those places don’t have the stadium to support the team or the population in the right economic bracket.

WA3 is probably 25 years too late
 

Carringbush2010

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Only way it could work is to be a regional team such as Geraldton or Albany. But those places don’t have the stadium to support the team or the population in the right economic bracket.

WA3 is probably 25 years too late
Yep! Even though the population here is enough, there's almost zero support for a brand new team if at all.
 

FootyJunkie

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Only way it could work is to be a regional team such as Geraldton or Albany. But those places don’t have the stadium to support the team or the population in the right economic bracket.

WA3 is probably 25 years too late
In hind sight, probably could have brought in 3 WA sides in 1987 based on WAFL allegiances.... growing pains early but with support shared around you would have 3 financially healthy organizations in an ever growing city/state with a world class stadium a generation later.

Essentially split up what was the state wide support for the Eagles, but from day 1.

Perth City Thunder = Perth/East Perth/Swan Districts (WACA)
Catchment: Eastern Suburbs and share of the Northern Suburbs

Western Eagles = Subiaco/Claremont/West Perth (Subiaco Oval)
Catchment: Western Suburbs, a share of the Northern Suburbs and regional WA due to the "Western" (Australia) brand (Team for all Sandgropers)

Fremantle Dockers = East Freo/South Freo (Fremantle Oval)
Catchment: South of the River extending to Mandurah, Bunbury, Albany and the South West.

Would have been the immediate end of the WAFL though.
 
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Freomaniac

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TBH, I reckon if it was something that people thought would get a bit of traction most Perth locals would be in favour of it.

It's just that there isn't an obvious gap in the market where you could put a team that's capable of doing that.
The Gap is Irrelevant.

This is Perth, not Adelaide. WAs population grows by 2.5% a year.

In the December 2018 census, there are 2.6 million people in WA. 2.5% is 65,000.

65,000 times 10 is 650,000.l

so around 3.25 million people in WA by the end of 2030.

Sure the club would struggle for the 1st 3-5 years but once established, will get 30,000 fans on average.
 

Carringbush2010

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In hind sight, probably could have brought in 3 WA sides in 1987 based on WAFL allegiances.... growing pains early but with support shared around you would have 3 financially healthy organizations in an ever growing city/state with a world class stadium a generation later.

Essentially split up what was the state wide support for the Eagles, but from day 1.

Perth City Thunder = Perth/East Perth/Swan Districts (WACA)
Catchment: Eastern Suburbs and share of the Northern Suburbs

Western Eagles = Subiaco/Claremont/West Perth (Subiaco Oval)
Catchment: Western Suburbs, a share of the Northern Suburbs and regional WA due to the "Western" (Australia) brand (Team for all Sandgropers)

Fremantle Dockers = East Freo/South Freo (Fremantle Oval)
Catchment: South of the River extending to Mandurah, Bunbury, Albany and the South West.

Would have been the immediate end of the WAFL though.
You're probably right, the population by and large adopted WC at it's inception and would've a 3rd club - back then, probably not now.
 

Freomaniac

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The difference is Eagles fans who can't make it to games are probably not going to despise a new team as much as their hated derby rivals.
That wasnt the case back in 2002-7. Especially around the 2005-7 years.

Back in that 2002-7 period, Eagles made finals each year, got to a couple of grand finals too. Freo were semi decent under Chris Connolly as coach. The point is and was....... Eagles had 45,000 members, Dockers had around 35,000 members.

To show you how crazy that eagles 2002-7 period was at west coast, they packed subiaco every fortnight and there were still another 10-15,000 members on the waiting list. Some were on there for 2-5 years. It came to the point when Half of those Eagles on the waiting list ran out of patience and signed up as dockers members. Thats how desperate WA footy fans were back then to go to AFL games.

I can see that happen again in 5-10 years time where Eagles regularly sell out that 60,000 seat stadium and have 20-30,000 of those members on the waiting list too.
 

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