#4 James Harmes – traded to Bulldogs. Thanks for 'that' kick. You know the one.

[Cold Sober]

GUN.

 

[Topkent]

He also gets 10-15 more useless linkup possessions than Oliver each game too.

If we keep Breust and Gunston to 5 or less between them we should have enough on the board to win this.

Pretty sure people were saying the same thing about Oliver's ball use. It's ability to help his team get away from the clearance situation.

Agree on Breust and Gunston their ground level smarts really worry me

 

[schmuttt]

Pretty sure people were saying the same thing about Oliver's ball use. It's ability to help his team get away from the clearance situation.

Agree on Breust and Gunston their ground level smarts really worry me

Oliver has more goal assists, more score involvements and more meters gained per disposal than Mitchell, I'm pretty comfortable saying he is a more damaging player.

 

[Topkent]

Oliver has more goal assists, more score involvements and more meters gained per disposal than Mitchell, I'm pretty comfortable saying he is a more damaging player.

metres gained is a s**t metric for measuring an inside mid. If Oliver is averaging more than Mitchell can't be hacking it forward like you said or he would get more than Oliver.

Also Mitchell has * all help in their midfield.
Oliver has Tyson Jones Brayshaw Vandenburg Harmes Petracca Viney now. And most of those all season.

That's like saying Cripps is crap because he doesn't get goal assists.

 

[schmuttt]

metres gained is a s**t metric for measuring an inside mid. If Oliver is averaging more than Mitchell can't be hacking it forward like you said or he would get more than Oliver.

Also Mitchell has **** all help in their midfield.
Oliver has Tyson Jones Brayshaw Vandenburg Harmes Petracca Viney now. And most of those all season.

That's like saying Cripps is crap because he doesn't get goal assists.

Hawks finished top 4, Cripps isn't comparable here. I don't think Mitchell is a bad player he is very good but I think he will be the worst brownlow medallist of the modern era after Cripps and Woey.

 

[Topkent]

Hawks finished top 4, Cripps isn't comparable here. I don't think Mitchell is a bad player he is very good but I think he will be the worst brownlow medallist of the modern era after Cripps and Woey.

I'm guessing you ment Priddis there.

I just don't think you can discount the quality of mitchells inside work and then produce stats that are pretty irrelevant for an inside mid.
Mitchell plays exclusively inside

He had 54 and 50 disposals this year mate, there had literally never been anyone statistically as good in history at getting the ball and getting rid of it.

 

[schmuttt]

I'm guessing you ment Priddis there.

I just don't think you can discount the quality of mitchells inside work and then produce stats that are pretty irrelevant for an inside mid.
Mitchell plays exclusively inside

He had 54 and 50 disposals this year mate, there had literally never been anyone statistically as good in history at getting the ball and getting rid of it.

They also have a losing record when he gets 40+.

 

[Topkent]

They also have a losing record when he gets 40+.

Yeah but I'd argue he's just working even harder because of how poor the support from the rest of his team was. 50+ isn't sustainable and at that point you would just let him get it and set up behind the ball. Same way I would say if Hogan kicks 7 against someone and we lose its not Hogans fault, it means we have kicked it way too often to him.

 

[LeverPuller]

They also have a losing record when he gets 40+.

Yup. He’s brilliant at racking it up but not at damaging.

So he is averaging 437 metres per game. 20th in the league. In terms of what I would call ball winning mids (rather than outside types) he is 5th behind Brayshaw, Ross, Martin and Ablett.

Here’s the kicker though. He’s averaging 36 touches a game for his 437 metres. That’s 12.1 metres per touch. By comparison, Danger averaged 422, but only averaged 28 touches, meaning he is going at 15m per touch.

Some other players:

Prestia 16.5m per touch
Steven 14m
Oliver 12.5m
Lyons 15m
Coniglio 12.8m
Fyfe 12.35m
Jones 14.1m

And for the record Cripps is way worse at a measly 8 metres

If he hurt with distance or release he would be miles better but he just doesn’t.

 

[schmuttt]

Yup. He’s brilliant at racking it up but not at damaging.

So he is averaging 437 metres per game. 20th in the league. In terms of what I would call ball winning mids (rather than outside types) he is 5th behind Brayshaw, Ross, Martin and Ablett.

Here’s the kicker though. He’s averaging 36 touches a game for his 437 metres. That’s 12.1 metres per touch. By comparison, Danger averaged 422, but only averaged 28 touches, meaning he is going at 15m per touch.

Some other players:

Prestia 16.5m per touch
Steven 14m
Oliver 12.5m
Lyons 15m
Coniglio 12.8m
Fyfe 12.35m
Jones 14.1m

And for the record Cripps is way worse at a measly 8 metres

If he hurt with distance or release he would be miles better but he just doesn’t.

Agree completely with your post but would cut Cripps some slack because he is literally a 1 man midfield. Hawks mids are certainly inferior to ours but with Mitchell/JOM/Shiels and Smith on the outside it is still a decent group.

 

[Topkent]

Yup. He’s brilliant at racking it up but not at damaging.

So he is averaging 437 metres per game. 20th in the league. In terms of what I would call ball winning mids (rather than outside types) he is 5th behind Brayshaw, Ross, Martin and Ablett.

Here’s the kicker though. He’s averaging 36 touches a game for his 437 metres. That’s 12.1 metres per touch. By comparison, Danger averaged 422, but only averaged 28 touches, meaning he is going at 15m per touch.

Some other players:

Prestia 16.5m per touch
Steven 14m
Oliver 12.5m
Lyons 15m
Coniglio 12.8m
Fyfe 12.35m
Jones 14.1m

And for the record Cripps is way worse at a measly 8 metres

If he hurt with distance or release he would be miles better but he just doesn’t.

Jesus Christ mate. Those statistics are absolutely meaningless for an inside mid. Brayshaw bombs it 50m to an out number way too often which inflates his metres gained but doesn't help the team.

On your metric though Mitchell averages the same as Oliver for metres gained so Oliver isn't damaging either...

" nah but Oliver blah blah"

Picking and choosing stats for players.

Your stats suggest Cripps is useless aswell which is wrong.

 

[LeverPuller]

Agree completely with your post but would cut Cripps some slack because he is literally a 1 man midfield. Hawks mids are certainly inferior to ours but with Mitchell/JOM/Shiels and Smith on the outside it is still a decent group.

Oh I know but just getting in before someone else asks his numbers

The one that shocked me was Oliver, thought it’d be higher. Guess he is still pretty handball happy though

 

[LeverPuller]

Jesus Christ mate. Those statistics are absolutely meaningless for an inside mid. Brayshaw bombs it 50m to an out number way too often which inflates his metres gained but doesn't help the team.

On your metric though Mitchell averages the same as Oliver for metres gained so Oliver isn't damaging either...

" nah but Oliver blah blah"

Picking and choosing stats for players.

Your stats suggest Cripps is useless aswell which is wrong.

The point of the stat is whether they manage to get it clear of the contest or not.

If I get time I’ll do it for the rest of the top ten clearance players - five are already listed.

As an aside, score involvements are also interesting given his numbers too.

 

[Topkent]

Inside midfielders can't be judged on statistics. You can use Disposals/Clearances and Tackles to measure how involved they were but it doesn't give you an idea of their impact.

If there's a stat that measures how often your clearance results in the ball being retained maybe that's something but the rest are crap. May aswell measure Isaac Smith on contested touches, Neville Jetta on disposals and Max Gawn on running bounces.

 

[Topkent]

The point of the stat is whether they manage to get it clear of the contest or not.

If I get time I’ll do it for the rest of the top ten clearance players - five are already listed.

As an aside, score involvements are also interesting given his numbers too.

Oliver has the same so your saying Oliver is ineffective, Cripps averages 8 so your saying he's the worst inside mid in the comp.
Shrugging of 3 tackles and handballing to the sweeper will result in -metres gained while hacking it forward 50m to an outnumber gets you 50m. Useless statistic. Our blokes were hacking it forward at the start of the year while we were playing 2 off the back of the square meaning we often wasted it. I can't be any more certain how useless that statistic is.

If you wanna argue your eyes tell you Mitchell handballs to blokes under pressure a tonne then that's one thing but I refuse to listen to metres gained as a statistic.

 

[Toump Ass]

Love the caption in the Age...


******* morons.

 

[Demonkings]

This guy just laid 11 tackles tonight. What the ****!

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Unstoppable. Best player in the comp atm

 

[Bazza97]

Gun.

 

[Cannon82]

On a serious note, he’s the first hard tagger I can think of who also has a massive offensive side to his game. It’s going to be really interesting to see how oppositions deal with him, because his hurt factor when we get the ball is doing heaps of damage as he runs off the contest.

To counter him you almost need whoever he picks to sacrifice their game entirely and tag back. That’s far easier said than done for guys who are used to being the lynchpin.

Ling, Clint Jones, Ryan Crowley, Brett Kirk, Kane Cornes, Liam Picken, Tony Liberatore won a Brownlow doing it, etc etc. Harmes isn't breaking any new ground.

 

[Dory_77]

Oliver has the same so your saying Oliver is ineffective, Cripps averages 8 so your saying he's the worst inside mid in the comp.
Shrugging of 3 tackles and handballing to the sweeper will result in -metres gained while hacking it forward 50m to an outnumber gets you 50m. Useless statistic. Our blokes were hacking it forward at the start of the year while we were playing 2 off the back of the square meaning we often wasted it. I can't be any more certain how useless that statistic is.

If you wanna argue your eyes tell you Mitchell handballs to blokes under pressure a tonne then that's one thing but I refuse to listen to metres gained as a statistic.

Agreed that the metres gained is a nothing stat; the latest darling of commentators who want to sound smart.
If Oliver/Mitchell/whoever win the ball and feed it out the back to Lewis/Salem/whoever that then hit up a forward, it wouldn't count as metres gained for Oliver/Mitchell, right? But in reality they've created a 40/50m gain.
I guess it depends on how they measure it, but I feel like it doesn't give much scope for the effectiveness of those gains.

 

[Topkent]

Agreed that the metres gained is a nothing stat; the latest darling of commentators who want to sound smart.
If Oliver/Mitchell/whoever win the ball and feed it out the back to Lewis/Salem/whoever that then hit up a forward, it wouldn't count as metres gained for Oliver/Mitchell, right? But in reality they've created a 40/50m gain.
I guess it depends on how they measure it, but I feel like it doesn't give much scope for the effectiveness of those gains.

Nope it counts as negative metres while a kick to a contest counts as metres gained. So Oliver could shake 3 people and feed it back to Tyson and get -5m while Tyson could bomb it to a 3 on 1 that Tmac manages to spoil over the line and get 50m gained from

 

[schmuttt]

Nope it counts as negative metres while a kick to a contest counts as metres gained. So Oliver could shake 3 people and feed it back to Tyson and get -5m while Tyson could bomb it to a 3 on 1 that Tmac manages to spoil over the line and get 50m gained from

Mitchell still has low hurt factor don't care how often you waffle about this yes he is a very good player but wouldn't be in my top 10 midfielders

 

[Topkent]

Mitchell still has low hurt factor don't care how often you waffle about this yes he is a very good player but wouldn't be in my top 10 midfielders

You guys said he was no good then produced bullshit data to try and correlate your argument and now follow it up with another arbitrary rating. Top 10? There is 18 clubs so him being 13th still makes him a gun.

What is hurt factor? Seemed to be something everyone labelled Oliver with.
Is it because Mitchell plays exclusive inside? Because he has too, literally has no other support so if he starts seagulling around packs to get his metres gained an hurt factor stat up Hawthorn will lose even more clearances and contested footy. Or it because he isn't as physically imposing as Oliver and Cripps so he doesn't appear as damaging?
Hawthorn has one of the weakest midfields in the AFL and they finished top 4. Mitchell was a big part of that.
Sounds like you blokes heard Buckley and made up your mind

 

[schmuttt]

You guys said he was no good then produced bullshit data to try and correlate your argument and now follow it up with another arbitrary rating. Top 10? There is 18 clubs so him being 13th still makes him a gun.

What is hurt factor? Seemed to be something everyone labelled Oliver with.
Is it because Mitchell plays exclusive inside? Because he has too, literally has no other support so if he starts seagulling around packs to get his metres gained an hurt factor stat up Hawthorn will lose even more clearances and contested footy. Or it because he isn't as physically imposing as Oliver and Cripps so he doesn't appear as damaging?
Hawthorn has one of the weakest midfields in the AFL and they finished top 4. Mitchell was a big part of that.
Sounds like you blokes heard Buckley and made up your mind

Would have watched around a dozen hawks games this year. Half his clearances are hack kicks out of congestion, that is why I say he lacks hurt factor. Is an average user by foot and can't break away from a pack like Oliver or just mow through it like Cripps.