Analysis 4 major outs 2015-2018: a deeper analysis (Dangerfield/Lyons/Cameron/McGovern)

[John Who]

There's been a lot of talk regarding Crows "bad/toxic culture" this year, with our performances in 2018 and 2019 both below par and seemingly on the decline. On looking back at our 4 major outs in the last 4 seasons, I personally think it's all about several common themes and not necessarily due to the Crows club environment:
- more money
- more job security with lengthy contracts
- more opportunities
- "family reasons" (Dangerfield/Cameron)

Who did we lose in the past 4 years (2015-2018)?
1. End of 2015: losing Dangerfield to Geelong
2. End of 2016: losing Lyons to Gold Coast Suns
3. End of 2017: losing Cameron to Brisbane Lions
4. End of 2018: losing McGovern to Carlton.




Issues for discussion:

* What are the common characteristics of these 4 players
- all are very quick for their size (maybe Lyons is the exception)
- all are good both at ground ball contests and marking in the air
- all are good tacklers and can defend their opponents or chase down their opponents
- all can attack well (both at body and ball)
- all can score 1-2 goals per game.

* Are these the players that the modern game needs?
I think so - the modern game needs strong at-it players, hungry for the ball and not afraid to clash into bodies/packs; can attack when with ball in hand, and can chase (and stick tackles) when opposition has the ball.
I also think the reason why Tigers, Pies, GWS, Cats and Eagles are regularly competing in Finals, because they have a lot of players who are both skilled and not afraid to bash and crash.

* Are the 4 players lost reasons why the Crows are going "backwards"?
It's something to ponder on, and a different perspective as to why things haven't been going as well as we would have liked, particularly in the last 2 seasons. Without these 4 players, there's a huge drop in X-factor and not easily replaced by anyone in our reserves. Maybe to look forward, is to draft new players of similar type who we've lost in the recent past?

 

[Mutineer]

Who cares ....ancient history

I prefer looking through the front windscreen not the rear vision mirror.

 

[skittlebrew]

2. End of 2016: losing Lyons to Gold Coast Suns

He wasn't lost, he was pushed and that's putting it lightly.

Also Lever?

 

[Favre N Carve]

Danger and CC huge losses

Lyons was a fringe player and McGovern is meh

 

[Owen_AFC97]

we lost good players, good players are hard to replace, there is your expert analysis

 

[ltdamn]

All gone on to be very average players with no real achievements of note who became markedly worse players after they left the nest. Each of their roles was handily filled by the next man in line and we wouldn't even take them back as free agents.

A clear lesson for anyone thinking of leaving in the future, it's just not worth gambling your career down the toilet by leaving the AFC. Stay put.

 

[Scorpus]

Jarryd Lyons is the big one. Could have retained him for * all and he was just getting good.

 

[John Who]

Who cares ....ancient history

I prefer looking through the front windscreen not the rear vision mirror.

No different to yearly reviews - sometimes looking back helps you to understand the future better.

 

[John Who]

He wasn't lost, he was pushed and that's putting it lightly.

Also Lever?

I completely forgot about Lever! Perhaps the rise of Doedee helped to completely eradicate the memories of Lever.
In my mind, losing the 4 names mentioned is what's weakened our team. We also haven't got any decent immediate returns, which is a double body blow.

 

[spenze]

Lyons?

Surprised you didn't mention Wigg

 

[StonesThrow]

Jarryd Lyons is the big one. Could have retained him for fu** all and he was just getting good.

And yet our problem in the midfield is that we are too slow and one paced?

The only problem with Lyons leaving is that it looks like we should have gotten more value for him.

 

[dogs105]

Jarryd Lyons is the big one. Could have retained him for fu** all and he was just getting good.

"the" big one? Dangerfield probably a bit bigger

 

[Jarman3]

And yet our problem in the midfield is that we are too slow and one paced?

The only problem with Lyons leaving is that it looks like we should have gotten more value for him.

Yeah, I was a fan of Lyons towards the end there - his last season here was very good. Prior to that he was a fringe player, and I think he was also a victim of the sub rule - didn't he hold the record for player who was named as sub the most (AFL wide, not just at our club)? So even when he was getting a game, it was often only a quarter of a game - I suspect that stunted his development a bit.

But even if he'd stayed, he'd have been fighting for a spot with Greenwood, CEY, Gibbs, etc. I doubt he'd have gone to the level he's got to simply because he wouldn't have had the opportunities.

As much as I liked him, I was OK with trading him. But the deal we got was disgraceful.

 

[Golumless]

Jarryd Lyons is the big one. Could have retained him for fu** all and he was just getting good.

One of the many poster boys for why targeting players who are stuck in a poor list situation is the smartest way a side could go about trading.

Mind you, I'd argue he is by far the least important of the lot when it comes to trading. More the welcomed hazard to building a good list in that he had enough to be a good player, but was genuinely stuck in a logjam for inside midfield minutes, and we were already playing way too many of his type. That said, creating these players, especially from 3rd rounders onwards is a sign that your development/talent ID is in a very healthy place. Maybe we could have done better in the trade, but even that has a level of part of the hazard to it all seeing he was barely established with 5 odd preseasons behind him (so most of the improvement is just going to come from playing him at an AFL level and hoping he structurally clicks), and no draft pedigree to fall back on.

The big two are Cameron and, in particular, McGovern, more for ripping away our point of difference which led to 2016-2017 than anything else.

 

[Cleric]

All gone on to be very average players with no real achievements of note who became markedly worse players after they left the nest. Each of their roles was handily filled by the next man in line and we wouldn't even take them back as free agents.

A clear lesson for anyone thinking of leaving in the future, it's just not worth gambling your career down the toilet by leaving the AFC. Stay put.

Lol. Charlie Cameron hasnt done anything since he left?
Stop clowning.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

If we had drafted Kelly instead of gibbs we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Or a review.

But since we are having this conversation.

Losing mcgovern was no big thing, he left to try and salvage himself. He's not psychologically okay

Lwvwrs loss hurt most when dodee got injured. However what was cruel about lever, we only drafted him because of the tippet sanctions. We used a good pick on a guy with bad knees, trying to make up. For the loss of draft picks. Same reason we traded Vince. He was another who could of been handy in 2017 and 18.

We lost an elite player at the start of his domination, when we lost Cameron. If we hadn't of drafted gibbs, maybe we cOild of afforded to pay him to stay?

Dangerfield just a dog but he left a big hole. In last quarters of tough games, he always stood up, started taking contested grabs.

 

[PrideoSA]

even Henderson better than J Lyons

 

[bluespooner]

Not in the discussion, but I always thought Henderson was good for your team. That said, he has been even better for Hawthorn.

 

[PrideoSA]

Is it really necessary to have these players names eg. DANGERFLOG in the thread title?

 

[Scorpus]

"the" big one? Dangerfield probably a bit bigger

We got at least some value for Dangerfield

We effectively got nothing for Lyons

 

[ltdamn]

Lol. Charlie Cameron hasnt done anything since he left?
Stop clowning.

 

[Cleric]

You forget the fact that we have posters here who actually believe what you wrote.

 

[Cleric]

Lyons did pretty good in the Brownlow last night.

 

[jackster83]

The issue is none of the blokes we brought in with what we got for them have really come on yet or have been denied opportunities (Milera, Poholke, Fog, McHenry). Was pretty much a wasted year for all four.

 

[Cleric]

The issue is none of the blokes we brought in with what we got for them have really come on yet or have been denied opportunities (Milera, Poholke, Fog, McHenry). Was pretty much a wasted year for all four.

Not quite true. We brought in Gibbs and he has... Oh yeah, carry on.