4 more players...

Roachy8

Premium Platinum
Joined
May 11, 2007
Posts
11,437
Likes
19,642
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #1
.....is (are?) what we need to become a competitive finals team!!!!

That is my opinion after cooling down after another tantalising yet frustrating loss.

The question is, do we have them on our list and they are still developing or do we need to draft and/or bring them in? (Likely to be both)

Good players have the ability to lift and improve their output when surrounded by high quality teammates and that is why, contrary to what some believe, IMO guys like Nahas, Edwards & Tuck can be part of a premiership team.

Imagine if we inserted the following into Saturdays lineup:
- A CHF who takes 8 - 10 grabs per game, kicks 2 -3 goals and patrols the ground between the centre and 40 metres out.
- A genuine medium, marking forward with some freakish skills
- A full back who is big and strong and shuts down the key oposition big forward.
- A further A grade midfielder to add to our current rotations.

Actually, forget Saturdays line-up... we would be 6 & 2 or even 7 & 1 with the luxury of these additions.

Now I don't want this to be just dismissed as a pipe-dream because in reality I reckon it's pretty much where The Club knows it needs to head.

Stick a CHF and a quality medium small into our forward half and suddenly it starts to function much better. Jack would find plenty of extra space and less extra defenders sagging off to double team him.
We would get quicker quality ball into our forward 50 for either a mark on the lead or a crumb off a pack... = more positive scoreboard outcomes. (what a wank cliche! :eek:)

Stick a big strong full back on Patty on Saturday night and he would not have got 3 goals in the first qtr + Rance & Grimes are freed up as the 2nd and 3rd defenders + of course we cover an injury easier.

Stick an extra A grade mid into our rotations and everyone benefits.

So in terms of current 'cattle', who have we got?

- CHF = Miller (no), Vickery (doubtfull), Griffiths (hopefull), Astbury (hopefull), Elton (hopefull)
- Mid Forward = O'Hanlon (very early but hopefull), Connors (could be the man if he ever gets his head right)
- Full Back = Rance (prefer he is 2nd tall), Post (never), Griffiths (prefer forward), Astbury (IMO too classy to be stuck at full back), Darrou & Wright (too short perhaps and very green)
- A grade mid = Ellis (likely), Helbig (dunno), Arnot (dunno),

So 4 players which could equate to one brillirant trade & draft period or two very good ones... or some much needed luck and excelent development of guys already on our roster....

So which is it? :cool:
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

thecotch

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Posts
3,257
Likes
1,574
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
#2
We need another decent backup ruckman too. Browne and Graham aren't cut out for it. Maric will get tired eventually with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Is in great form but we are a Maric injury away from rucking mediocrity again.
 

tiggywigs

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Posts
1,076
Likes
1,204
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Richmond
#3
.....is (are?) what we need to become a competitive finals team!!!!

That is my opinion after cooling down after another tantalising yet frustrating loss.

The question is, do we have them on our list and they are still developing or do we need to draft and/or bring them in? (Likely to be both)

Good players have the ability to lift and improve their output when surrounded by high quality teammates and that is why, contrary to what some believe, IMO guys like Nahas, Edwards & Tuck can be part of a premiership team.

Imagine if we inserted the following into Saturdays lineup:
- A CHF who takes 8 - 10 grabs per game, kicks 2 -3 goals and patrols the ground between the centre and 40 metres out.
- A genuine medium, marking forward with some freakish skills
- A full back who is big and strong and shuts down the key oposition big forward.
- A further A grade midfielder to add to our current rotations.

Actually, forget Saturdays line-up... we would be 6 & 2 or even 7 & 1 with the luxury of these additions.

Now I don't want this to be just dismissed as a pipe-dream because in reality I reckon it's pretty much where The Club knows it needs to head.

Stick a CHF and a quality medium small into our forward half and suddenly it starts to function much better. Jack would find plenty of extra space and less extra defenders sagging off to double team him.
We would get quicker quality ball into our forward 50 for either a mark on the lead or a crumb off a pack... = more positive scoreboard outcomes. (what a wank cliche! :eek:)

Stick a big strong full back on Patty on Saturday night and he would not have got 3 goals in the first qtr + Rance & Grimes are freed up as the 2nd and 3rd defenders + of course we cover an injury easier.

Stick an extra A grade mid into our rotations and everyone benefits.

So in terms of current 'cattle', who have we got?

- CHF = Miller (no), Vickery (doubtfull), Griffiths (hopefull), Astbury (hopefull), Elton (hopefull)
- Mid Forward = O'Hanlon (very early but hopefull), Connors (could be the man if he ever gets his head right)
- Full Back = Rance (prefer he is 2nd tall), Post (never), Griffiths (prefer forward), Astbury (IMO too classy to be stuck at full back), Darrou & Wright (too short perhaps and very green)
- A grade mid = Ellis (likely), Helbig (dunno), Arnot (dunno),

So 4 players which could equate to one brillirant trade & draft period or two very good ones... or some much needed luck and excelent development of guys already on our roster....

So which is it?
:cool:
It's got to be both. I agree that we lack marking/crumbing options forward and that is an area we may need to draft/trade for given our window is opening pretty quickly. I suspect that our needs in the other areas will be made up by improvement within the existing list, especially the defence. However, I would not be surprised if Blair Hartley has another big-bodied mid in mind for the intro of free agency either, as we need to build depth in our midfield rotations.
 

Roachy8

Premium Platinum
Joined
May 11, 2007
Posts
11,437
Likes
19,642
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #4
We need another decent backup ruckman too. Browne and Graham aren't cut out for it. Maric will get tired eventually with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Is in great form but we are a Maric injury away from rucking mediocrity again.
Yeah agree perhaps as a depth issue but assuming everyone is fit and well then I can't see us playing Ivann + another legit ruckman in the same 22.
 

thecotch

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Posts
3,257
Likes
1,574
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
#5
Yeah agree perhaps as a depth issue but assuming everyone is fit and well then I can't see us playing Ivann + another legit ruckman in the same 22.
I guess that's where vickery is key. We need 2 decent big blokes in the side as rotating ruckmen. Maric can't do it alone. Ryder and bellchambers proved the difference in the end with ryder up forward kicking goals and then going into the ruck. He's only 24yo too.
 

amcre

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Posts
8,402
Likes
6,970
AFL Club
Richmond
#8
This is where this years SUPER DRAFT and having 3 picks inside the top 30 (3rd one might be just outside 30) will be huge.

We must nail our first two picks with another absolute jet mid and also a classy HFF/Mid. Then we need to draft another quality tall whether it be ruckman or KPD/KPF with our 3rd pick.

Finally we MUST get someone decent with free agency this year. Guys like Moloney/Goddard/Sylvia would all fit our needs and won't cost us anything bar salary cap space. The way they have talked up their free agency push suggests to me though that we are going to be able to bring someone in comfortably and why not. Carlton have Judd on 1 mill plus but talk about being able to land a big free agent. Geelong has a host of stars as do the Pies. We are all under the same cap and with the Tigers paying 92.5% of the salary cap it wouldn't suprise me if we were able to land two big free agents this year.

I know Sylvia has question marks but I seriously think this guy is a Star in the Deledio mould and a change of scenery would bring it out. Would be a jet in a decent team. Also Moloney would be a great option as a 5/6th string mid.

Imagine getting those two boys or say one and Chris Knights from the crows or Goddard, ecspecially if someone like Griffiths stands up in a CHB role which if body is right I am confident he will:

Morris Rance Grimes

Newman Griffiths Batchelor

Conca Cotchin Deledio

Martin Vickery Sylvia

Pick 8, Riewoldt, Pick 25

Maric Foley Moloney

Grigg, Ellis, Houli, SUB: Edwards/Nahas
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Posts
168
Likes
32
AFL Club
Richmond
#10
Carlisle would be a good pick up from Port. He would be a restricted free agent wouldn't he?
Carlisle, Rance, Grimes and Batchelor in the backline is a very solid defence.
Sylvia would be good too but to be honest when I look at Connors he reminds me a lot of Sylvia but just not as good - a little smaller, not quite as explosive. I actually rate Connors higher than guys like Houli, Edwards and King and on talent Connors should be getting a game.
Sylvia would be a good get though.

1st pick this year I would like the club to go for Kennedy from SA. From what I have read about him is that his production is high, he is very fast and agile, can win his own football and is good around goal. The only downside is his height being under 180cm. He could be a good get if it is only his height that is the query. He could immediately play games as a forward pocket next year and could possibly rotate with a guy like Foley through the midfield.

2nd pick should be on a inside midfielder. 3rd pick on a tall player. Either a ruckman or a really fast leading FF or FB.

I don't reckon the Tigers need to go overboard with free agency. If they could just grab someone like a Carlisle who can fill a need it's all that they have to do.
 
Joined
May 11, 2011
Posts
49
Likes
0
AFL Club
Richmond
#11
This is where this years SUPER DRAFT and having 3 picks inside the top 30 (3rd one might be just outside 30) will be huge.

We must nail our first two picks with another absolute jet mid and also a classy HFF/Mid. Then we need to draft another quality tall whether it be ruckman or KPD/KPF with our 3rd pick.

Finally we MUST get someone decent with free agency this year. Guys like Moloney/Goddard/Sylvia would all fit our needs and won't cost us anything bar salary cap space. The way they have talked up their free agency push suggests to me though that we are going to be able to bring someone in comfortably and why not. Carlton have Judd on 1 mill plus but talk about being able to land a big free agent. Geelong has a host of stars as do the Pies. We are all under the same cap and with the Tigers paying 92.5% of the salary cap it wouldn't suprise me if we were able to land two big free agents this year.

I know Sylvia has question marks but I seriously think this guy is a Star in the Deledio mould and a change of scenery would bring it out. Would be a jet in a decent team. Also Moloney would be a great option as a 5/6th string mid.

Imagine getting those two boys or say one and Chris Knights from the crows or Goddard, ecspecially if someone like Griffiths stands up in a CHB role which if body is right I am confident he will:

Morris Rance Grimes

Newman Griffiths Batchelor

Conca Cotchin Deledio

Martin Vickery Sylvia

Pick 8, Riewoldt, Pick 25

Maric Foley Moloney

Grigg, Ellis, Houli, SUB: Edwards/Nahas
With one of the mantras about picking quality characters, I struggle to see us going after Sylvia. No disrespect to him, but I cant think of a more dissapointing player over the last decade who has gotten the least out of his natural ability. He would have to be one of the biggest dissapointments both on and off the field that I can remember
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

fleabitten

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Posts
5,596
Likes
9,957
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Portland Trailblazers
#13
CHF - I think we stick with what we're developing. Vickery back to form in the forward line solves this problem and we have Griffiths, Astbury and Elton in development as well. I still consider Post a chance here as well.

FB - Moore getting back to full fitness would help here as I think he, Rance and Grimes gives us enough bigger bodies in defence even if none of them is a monster. But Moore is still doubtful and unless Griffiths comes on as a defender, I think we look to free agency or a trade to fill this need.

Medium Forward - Feels like Connors will never make it at Richmond. Might blossom elsewhere. O'Hanlon still a ways off from filling the role, so we either draft or trade here too.

Extra Mid -We have a young group with a lot of class at the top. Could always add more depth and I think another high draft pick could be spent here.

So, we use our first pick on a midfielder, our other picks and any fringe players with trade value (possibly Connors, McGuane, Graham, Browne, Post, Webberly etc) to acquire a FB and a medium-sized forward that can walk into the side.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Posts
5,302
Likes
10,945
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Richmond
#14
Trade, draft and develop.

There are guys in the development zone in Coburg that we don't even think of, and they might come up. But to me the key is greater depth in the middle and the forwards working out how to play the system. As our defensive gameplan improves and we apply more pressure some of these issues reduce. We need a midfield that just does the job 100% all the time and then things flow. With our developing talls we have the cattle already to fill the other holes you identify. And more midfield depth releases Dusty and Lids to play resting forward - which solves the mid sized forward issue. I'd hope we go for 1-2 more decent mids this year and look to trade in a monster KPB in a couple of years if needed. Free agency and low player payments gives us flexibility that few other clubs have.
 

Magic17

All Australian
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Posts
791
Likes
1,678
AFL Club
Richmond
#15
This is where this years SUPER DRAFT and having 3 picks inside the top 30 (3rd one might be just outside 30) will be huge.

We must nail our first two picks with another absolute jet mid and also a classy HFF/Mid. Then we need to draft another quality tall whether it be ruckman or KPD/KPF with our 3rd pick.

Finally we MUST get someone decent with free agency this year. Guys like Moloney/Goddard/Sylvia would all fit our needs and won't cost us anything bar salary cap space. The way they have talked up their free agency push suggests to me though that we are going to be able to bring someone in comfortably and why not. Carlton have Judd on 1 mill plus but talk about being able to land a big free agent. Geelong has a host of stars as do the Pies. We are all under the same cap and with the Tigers paying 92.5% of the salary cap it wouldn't suprise me if we were able to land two big free agents this year.

I know Sylvia has question marks but I seriously think this guy is a Star in the Deledio mould and a change of scenery would bring it out. Would be a jet in a decent team. Also Moloney would be a great option as a 5/6th string mid.

Imagine getting those two boys or say one and Chris Knights from the crows or Goddard, ecspecially if someone like Griffiths stands up in a CHB role which if body is right I am confident he will:

Morris Rance Grimes

Newman Griffiths Batchelor

Conca Cotchin Deledio

Martin Vickery Sylvia

Pick 8, Riewoldt, Pick 25

Maric Foley Moloney

Grigg, Ellis, Houli, SUB: Edwards/Nahas

Sylvia????... have you not seen the way he's been playing, and his lack of commitment lately. He's a downhill skier who only bothers to put in when the clubs going well. We don't need any chumps who decide when and whether they can be bothered giving it their all. The Dees recruited a rookie called Magner... have a look at recent Melbourne games and compare his desperation to Sylvia's.
 

Spagman

Club Legend
Joined
May 27, 2007
Posts
2,835
Likes
3,907
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
#16
No mention of White or Webberly? Do they have long term prospects at RFC?

Personally I think Jackson should be sent up the ground to try assisting around CHF. He has a big body, he's strong, sure he's not the sharpest tool in the shed but do you need to be to crum goals?

It seems he's maligned when playing in the back, or middle because of his decision making. Perhaps utilising his strengths (he does have a couple) by putting him in a position where his job is simple is the key for him. He has a solid kick on him.
 

Roachy8

Premium Platinum
Joined
May 11, 2007
Posts
11,437
Likes
19,642
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #18
No mention of White or Webberly? Do they have long term prospects at RFC?
Personally I think they fall just short of what is required... buts that perhaps just me!

Have an inkling we may see Connors this week against the Hawks.
I too have an inkling... King out, Connors in perhaps...
 

"The Roar Is Back"

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Posts
22,414
Likes
26,924
Location
THE TAN
AFL Club
Richmond
#19
I hope Connors doesn't can back for for a few more weeks , sends a clear message to both he and others .
4 players we need are midfielders who can go forward . Playing a similar role as Cotchin, Martin and Lids .
We are 3 years into a rebuild if we don't have the developing talls upon the list we need to get them via trade or mature age recruit .
Also don't be fooled by this year being the super of all mother drafts because I think you might be proven wrong .
 

amcre

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Posts
8,402
Likes
6,970
AFL Club
Richmond
#21
Sylvia????... have you not seen the way he's been playing, and his lack of commitment lately. He's a downhill skier who only bothers to put in when the clubs going well. We don't need any chumps who decide when and whether they can be bothered giving it their all. The Dees recruited a rookie called Magner... have a look at recent Melbourne games and compare his desperation to Sylvia's.
You have to remember he has come off virtually no pre season and is playing forward in a horrible team. The last few years he has been a very good player at the demons even while they were struggling.

He has tore games apart on multiple occasions with 30+ and 4 goals. Would be the perfect fit to rotate.

Imagine rotating Cotch and Lids out of the midfield with Martin and Sylvia as our medium forwards.

I know he is unpopular at the moment but that is when you pick up a bloke like that. Would tear it up in the current Richmond side and if you are writing him off then I think you are underestimating how much missing a pre season makes a difference.
 

RichoLedio

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Posts
9,534
Likes
21,595
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Liverpool, Glenelg
#22
You have to remember he has come off virtually no pre season and is playing forward in a horrible team. The last few years he has been a very good player at the demons even while they were struggling.

He has tore games apart on multiple occasions with 30+ and 4 goals. Would be the perfect fit to rotate.

Imagine rotating Cotch and Lids out of the midfield with Martin and Sylvia as our medium forwards.

I know he is unpopular at the moment but that is when you pick up a bloke like that. Would tear it up in the current Richmond side and if you are writing him off then I think you are underestimating how much missing a pre season makes a difference.
Not to mention he's only been playing a couple of weeks since he broke his back, can't really expect him to tear it up in that team with the way they're going
 

Magic17

All Australian
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Posts
791
Likes
1,678
AFL Club
Richmond
#23
You have to remember he has come off virtually no pre season and is playing forward in a horrible team. The last few years he has been a very good player at the demons even while they were struggling.

He has tore games apart on multiple occasions with 30+ and 4 goals. Would be the perfect fit to rotate.

Imagine rotating Cotch and Lids out of the midfield with Martin and Sylvia as our medium forwards.

I know he is unpopular at the moment but that is when you pick up a bloke like that. Would tear it up in the current Richmond side and if you are writing him off then I think you are underestimating how much missing a pre season makes a difference.
Fair points and I agree he can be very exciting at times. However it's his current demeanor that bothers me. There have been plenty of players who have struggled after missing a preseason... doesn't mean you can't give it all you've got though... remember Cotchin's first 2 seasons?
 
Joined
May 2, 2009
Posts
2,998
Likes
4,036
Location
sydney
AFL Club
Richmond
#24
Then we need to draft another quality tall whether it be ruckman or KPD/KPF with our 3rd pick.
To be terribly honest, I am not convinced with using early draft picks on talls - they take ages the develop and are usually hit and miss after like 5 years. I definitely reckon mids are the way to go for drafting success.

Especially Ruckman. They dont mature until they are mid 25's. Thats seven years to develop them. Trading for them is a better option (Jolly, Maric, jacobs, Mummy, Cox - was like mature or something).

Hope we can pick couple up in free agency and use the rest of draft picks for mids with immediate impact.

We definately need another fast strong defender with diposal skills. Slow gorillas wont cut it with our style unless they are elite.
 

johnno77

Premiership Player
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Posts
3,197
Likes
8,351
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
#25
No mention of White or Webberly? Do they have long term prospects at RFC?
Sadly, I think they are both gone. The clock is ticking (loudly)

Have an inkling we may see Connors this week against the Hawks.
His best ever game was against the Hawks in their premiership year. He certainly doesn't deserve a chance a this stage IMO and I think it would send the wrong message by playing him.
 
Top Bottom