4 Rounds in, everyone's lost.

loki04

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#51
Perceived pressure man! that's what it is the game is so compact that players just panic whenever they get the ball! So they struggle to dispose correctly. Not that the umpires punish the incorrect disposal anyway, the amount of throws or in the backs I've notice in every game is astonishing. Highest its ever been.

two ways to solve this, either Coaches stop copying each others game plan and come up with something unique and different to counter this rubbish (not gonna happen because the coaches are the ones under the most pressure for results)

Or dramatically reduce the interchange or get rid of it completely and only have four substitutes once your off you are off can't come back! that way we'll get a more open game and a more tactical one as well (coaches will actually have to coach.) instead of just sending messages.
The interchange is the main reason we have the game we have today because the payers are so fit they can sustain the pressure game plan. Seeing all 36 players on one side of the ground just isn't a good look to me! All in the hope that one team can course a pressured turnover in order to get an uncontested sneaky goal over the top. It's not how I grow up loving the game!
Yeah when the fork did they introduce a prior opportunity for incorrect disposal? Because I've heard a few umps tell players there was no prior on the incorrect disposal...wtf.

Its incorrect disposal not holding the ball. The rule might as well not exist now so many players get away with simply dropping the ball in a tackle its not funny.
 

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Ocker

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#52
Yeah when the fork did they introduce a prior opportunity for incorrect disposal? Because I've heard a few umps tell players there was no prior on the incorrect disposal...wtf.

Its incorrect disposal not holding the ball. The rule might as well not exist now so many players get away with simply dropping the ball in a tackle its not funny.
100% - drives me ******* nuts
 

giggler99

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Moderator #53
Yeah when the fork did they introduce a prior opportunity for incorrect disposal? Because I've heard a few umps tell players there was no prior on the incorrect disposal...wtf.

Its incorrect disposal not holding the ball. The rule might as well not exist now so many players get away with simply dropping the ball in a tackle its not funny.
100% - drives me ******* nuts

As an umpire to be fair it would be bloody hard, with so many players around the pack it would be hard to call anything let alone see any throw.

I sometimes think it’s done deliberately players crowding the pack so the umpire can’t see how the ball is disposed.

Another reason is the players know that the umpires are told to keep the game flowing as not to create any more stoppages so players are able to disguise a fake handball or seem to not “intentionally” dispose the ball incorrectly. Umpires ain’t gonna call it. It’s a mess!
 

NoobPie

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#54
Perceived pressure man! that's what it is the game is so compact that players just panic whenever they get the ball! So they struggle to dispose correctly. Not that the umpires punish the incorrect disposal anyway, the amount of throws or in the backs I've notice in every game is astonishing. Highest its ever been.

two ways to solve this, either Coaches stop copying each others game plan and come up with something unique and different to counter this rubbish (not gonna happen because the coaches are the ones under the most pressure for results)

Or dramatically reduce the interchange or get rid of it completely and only have four substitutes once your off you are off can't come back! that way we'll get a more open game and a more tactical one as well (coaches will actually have to coach.) instead of just sending messages.
The interchange is the main reason we have the game we have today because the payers are so fit they can sustain the pressure game plan. Seeing all 36 players on one side of the ground just isn't a good look to me! All in the hope that one team can course a pressured turnover in order to get an uncontested sneaky goal over the top. It's not how I grow up loving the game!
Sorry but none of that makes any sense

West coasts game plan is as different to Richmond's was as you could get. They had 38 tackles against us last week. I'm not sure how much football you've watched this year but there's been significantly less "congestion" compared to last year on account of a number of teams tilting back towards possession based and away from territory based game plans

You're asking for more tactical innovation after a decade and a half of the most rapid period of tactical innovation in the games history. And then you complain about the game not being like what you watched as a kid?

Average crowds are not to far south of 40k and tv ratings per game were 530k average after round 3. Clearly a lot of people are still entertained
 

NoobPie

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#55
Yeah when the fork did they introduce a prior opportunity for incorrect disposal? Because I've heard a few umps tell players there was no prior on the incorrect disposal...wtf.

Its incorrect disposal not holding the ball. The rule might as well not exist now so many players get away with simply dropping the ball in a tackle its not funny.
Because they want players to attempt to dispose of it.

So if you haven't had prior you won't get pinged for incorrect disposal if it's in the act of trying to dispose of it correctly (but it is incorrectly disposed of due to the force of the tackle)

I'm not suggesting umpiring is perfect or the rules are perfect, but people will save themselves alot frustration if they learnt the rules properly
 

giggler99

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Moderator #56
Sorry but none of that makes any sense

West coasts game plan is as different to Richmond's was as you could get. They had 38 tackles against us last week. I'm not sure how much football you've watched this year but there's been significantly less "congestion" compared to last year on account of a number of teams tilting back towards possession based and away from territory based game plans

You're asking for more tactical innovation after a decade and a half of the most rapid period of tactical innovation in the games history. And then you complain about the game not being like what you watched as a kid?

Average crowds are not to far south of 40k and tv ratings per game were 530k average after round 3. Clearly a lot of people are still entertained
Sorry but the game styles are a mess not sure how you can't see that 36 player in one corner of the ground isn't a problem.
All teams are looking for that quick counter attack into space for someone to run on too, granted some teams are forced into playing that way due to the opposition. West Coast and Brisbane so far and even Collingwood are probably the best examples of trying to break away from it.

Rapid period of innovation? sure mate if you think 36 players surrounding the ball as innovative. All I was saying is that the rules haven't helped change the ugliness that the AFL wanted with more contests, postional play and higher scoring that would be up to the coaches to revert back to not the rules.

As for crowds well that's a given the game is historically entrenched crowds are always gonna be up no matter what the game looks like. I still watch it as much as the next person beacuse no matter what I still love the game like many do. It can be so much better through.
 
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loki04

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#57
Because they want players to attempt to dispose of it.

So if you haven't had prior you won't get pinged for incorrect disposal if it's in the act of trying to dispose of it correctly (but it is incorrectly disposed of due to the force of the tackle)

I'm not suggesting umpiring is perfect or the rules are perfect, but people will save themselves alot frustration if they learnt the rules properly
But they're not attempting to dispose it, they are just dropping the ball and not due to force of tackle. Also it's not a rule (prior on incorrect) it is their interpretation or a guideline from AFL HQ to keep the game played to their vision.

When it comes to incorrect disposal unless it is "clearly" knocked out of their hands in tackle then there shouldn't even be a concept of prior opportunity, if you dont kick or handball it out then you get done that simple.
Conversely if they hold it in without making an attempt to dispose of it then its holding the ball regardless of prior as they made no attempt.
 

loki04

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#58
As an umpire to be fair it would be bloody hard, with so many players around the pack it would be hard to call anything let alone see any throw.

I sometimes think it’s done deliberately players crowding the pack so the umpire can’t see how the ball is disposed.

Another reason is the players know that the umpires are told to keep the game flowing as not to create any more stoppages so players are able to disguise a fake handball or seem to not “intentionally” dispose the ball incorrectly. Umpires ain’t gonna call it. It’s a mess!
Yeah but some times they are seeing that it is not a result of being knocked out but rather dropped they have said it was no prior so no free. This doesn't make any sense and it cant be to keep the game flowing as they are going to ball it up vs a free kick.
 

giggler99

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Moderator #59
Yeah but some times they are seeing that it is not a result of being knocked out but rather dropped they have said it was no prior so no free. This doesn't make any sense and it cant be to keep the game flowing as they are going to ball it up vs a free kick.
Maybe it that case the umps are just sick of the ball ups so just pay a free instead! :)
 

rippersnipper

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#61
Every ******* year - usually between rounds 3 and 10, the season is declared ‘the most even ever!’

It’s like mass amnesia hits everyone and suddenly we have to pretend that middle of the road sides winning a few games (as they do) equates to them being some kind of ‘contender’.

Stop it.

At the end of the H&A there will be at most 4 sides that have any chance to actually win the flag, probably less.
To be fair, there's absolutely no clear standouts yet. Brisbane have had 3 good wins and I'm not sure that I'm even confident of them making finals this season. West coast looked good in two games, but also rubbish in two. GWS have been solid apart from when they played you, but even two of their wins were against questionable opposition. Geelong have probably been the best team imo. I have no idea who will win the flag, albeit I'm certain it will come from one of about 5 teams - West Coast, GWS, Geelong, Collingwood and Essendon (who I think will kick on now)
 

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NoobPie

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#62
Sorry but the game styles are a mess not sure how you can't see that 36 player in one corner of the ground isn't a problem.
All teams are looking for that quick counter attack into space for someone to run on too, granted some teams are forced into playing that way due to the opposition. West Coast and Brisbane so far and even Collingwood are probably the best examples of trying to break away from it.

Rapid period of innovation? sure mate if you think 36 players surrounding the ball as innovative. All I was saying is that the rules haven't helped change the ugliness that the AFL wanted with more contests, postional play and higher scoring that would be up to the coaches to revert back to not the rules.

As for crowds well that's a given the game is historically entrenched crowds are always gonna be up no matter what the game looks like. I still watch it as much as the next person beacuse no matter what I still love the game like many do. It can be so much better through.
On Friday night I witnessed this sexagenarian bulldogs supporter losing who bundle as the dogs held possession chipping it around the back half before trying to poke their way forward. She would lose her bundle when we had the ball and we'd successfully make a shallow 20m pass into the bulldogs zone yelling "man up"

She grew up in simpler times when the game followed a far more predictable form

I don't understand how people under the age of 50 who have watched the game alot are that oblivious to the tactical developments in the game that they would think that those developments could be summed up as "36 players around the ball".

I watched the second half of the cats giants game yesterday. It was a cracking game and there was never anything like 36 players around the ball.

There barely has been at any point this year. In our games I've been to, there are always at least 9 players from each team a minimum off half a kick away from the stoppage and 3 or 4 1.5 to 2 kicks away when the ball is between the arcs.

Wow, I've just realised youre a moderator. What are you doing moderating a forum of a sport you have so little understanding of?
 

NoobPie

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#63
Yeah but some times they are seeing that it is not a result of being knocked out but rather dropped they have said it was no prior so no free. This doesn't make any sense and it cant be to keep the game flowing as they are going to ball it up vs a free kick.
Fair enough. It is possible that the umpires are told to err on the side of caution when pinning players for incorrect disposal when there is no prior. It's definitely an area of the rules and umpiring of the game that needs further work. I get annoyed when the same team gets away with multiple border line htb / Id calls but still wins the ball away from the contest.
 

giggler99

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Moderator #64
On Friday night I witnessed this sexagenarian bulldogs supporter losing who bundle as the dogs held possession chipping it around the back half before trying to poke their way forward. She would lose her bundle when we had the ball and we'd successfully make a shallow 20m pass into the bulldogs zone yelling "man up"

She grew up in simpler times when the game followed a far more predictable form

I don't understand how people under the age of 50 who have watched the game alot are that oblivious to the tactical developments in the game that they would think that those developments could be summed up as "36 players around the ball".

I watched the second half of the cats giants game yesterday. It was a cracking game and there was never anything like 36 players around the ball.

There barely has been at any point this year. In our games I've been to, there are always at least 9 players from each team a minimum off half a kick away from the stoppage and 3 or 4 1.5 to 2 kicks away when the ball is between the arcs.

Wow, I've just realised youre a moderator. What are you doing moderating a forum of a sport you have so little understanding of?
You’re taking what I wrote a little to literally and there is no need to insult me either! It’s just the way I see it and many other see it that way too, you see it differently and that’s fine. It is a messy game at the moment at times but that doesn’t me I don’t understand how the games evolved to the way it is. Coaches and player can be a little more adventurous through rather than just kicking the ball around backwards looking for a loose man.
 
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kaiserchief13

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#65
At this stage I think there are 3-4 groups of teams

Group 1
Geelong
GWS
West Coast

Group 2
Brisbane
Essendon
Collingwood
Richmond
St Kilda
Gold Coast

Group 3
Bulldogs
Port
Fremantle
Hawthorn

Group 4
Adelaide
Carlton
North
Sydney
Melbourne

Brisbane could be group 1 but the rest I think is accurate
 

Chinacats

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#66
My tipping has been disastrous. Could get in top 4 with 15-7 or even 14-8 record this year. Look at the teams outside the top 8 and their are questions marks on all of them climbing into top 8 and about 4 teams in top 8 that surely won’t be there at seasons end. It’s anyone’s guess now. Next 4 weeks will determine pecking order .
 
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#69
Definitely feels like it atm. Found it a bit fun you can make numerous win chains to prove a point.

For example:
Brisbane beat West Coast
West Coast beat GWS
GWS beat Essendon
Essendon beat Brisbane


EDIT: My point being towards my Essendon supporting father we’re still better



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Yep, comp evened up by draft and then you add a dash of fixturing and a pinch of umpiring... hey presto!
 
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#70
think in future should have 2 or 3 perm in the forward 50 for the defenders and forwards and at least that would reduce congestion by say 4 to 6 payers perm team. Should open the game up a bit and create some pretty open forward lines and a bit less congestion and hopefully higher scores. At the moment seems like the average scores are around 70 to 80 points. Seems pretty rare for a team to score 100 points these days
 

juss

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#73
The gap between teams has definitely closed in recent years. However I still think there are 3 teams ahead of the pack so far in 2019.

Eagles, Giants, Cats.

Maybe not on the ladder, but in terms of winning the flag these 3 are the teams to beat. Collingwood would be next in line. If you look at their losses too, they have only been beaten either by each other or in the Eagles case a very good Lions outfit at the Gabba in round 1.

It's the next group of sides where there is probably a dozen or so you you can throw a blanket over at this point, interesting to see if any split themselves from the rest over the year. Those are the teams where anything can happen and its impossonle to tip.
 

Tarkyn_24

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#74
The gap between teams has definitely closed in recent years. However I still think there are 3 teams ahead of the pack so far in 2019.

Eagles, Giants, Cats.

Maybe not on the ladder, but in terms of winning the flag these 3 are the teams to beat. Collingwood would be next in line. If you look at their losses too, they have only been beaten either by each other or in the Eagles case a very good Lions outfit at the Gabba in round 1.

It's the next group of sides where there is probably a dozen or so you you can throw a blanket over at this point, interesting to see if any split themselves from the rest over the year. Those are the teams where anything can happen and its impossonle to tip.
Good to know we’ve only got two more games to come against these so called contenders.
 

Madtiger2006

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#75
Could go b2b this week!
Yeah. I wanted Ross, Balta, Baker all playing from Round 1. Even Bolton. None played Round 2 and our midfield looked too small, Nank had no support ruck and our small forwards looked lazy. Keep them in. Stack is a ripper. He was rated top 20 talent and we got him for free. Won’t get into trouble living at Dimmas :cool:
 
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