Player Watch #40: Callum Coleman-Jones

Tiger_Of_Old

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I reckon they're already looking at the whole thing. Literally our oldest ruck is 25. So we will have a whole swath of quality talls for 5+ years. Whoever isn't getting a game will demand that they get a situation where they can play AFL. So for example, Chol continues to take steps and is genuine AFL quality. But Nank comes back and dominates in a duo with Soldo. Chol is absolutely worth playing AFL, but can't break past the other 2. Even ignoring CCJ's development, he will want to go somewhere he can expect to play before 5 more years are up.

The FD will be looking at this and working out the options. I suspect it will lead to a trade. Who, I have no idea. Because they are all worthy in different ways.
Obviously I'm a fan of Nank.So my ideal situation is a Ccj/Nank combo for the next 5+yrs.Both can play fwd whereas Soldo can't.
Think Chol will be the unlucky one.
Who knows in 2yrs time Jack R may call it a day and Ccj may play jacks role.
 

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JazMac

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Talls is a little misleading - I should have said rucks.
It's because of the nature of ruck contests - crashing into a mature aged ruck all day is the most physical aspect of our game and this is where younger guys get exposed until their bodies harden and they learn the craft.
Virtually all ruck-men peak in their mid to late 20's IMO.
Grundy?
 

JazMac

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To some extent talls, in particular rucks, play the most physical role in the game. Rucks literally try to smash one another out of the game. that requires maturity in body, and more importantly maturity in mind. I reckon a lot of young rucks just aren't ready mentally for some huge monster trying to tear them apart. As teenagers they generally don't have the ability smash into one another like genuine men can. This wrestling hitting side to the game is fairly rare among most shorter players' roles.

So with Soldo (for example) pure strength and power come into play doing things that literally no one else in our team can do (Nank excluded, but he's been injured). He can push a 2 meter tall strong human aside. He can hold someone down with one hand. He can hold someone in place in a stoppage. He also fills a hole just because he is so tall even a 195 cm CHF can't just push him aside or jump over him. These are quite different 'skills' to what normal sized players bring to the game. I reckon it takes time to learn how to bring that strength and aggression time after time, at close to 100%, and to take the punishment that comes with the role. They have to be physically more mature and mentally much more mature to deal with that role.
When playing suburban footy, I played with rucks of various types. Some young rucks had big bodies and great skills for the level and did well playing against men while still in their teens and early twenties even though they lighter and had less muscle. The not so great rucks included ex-rugby players and others who had played little footy. They had the bodies along with the height but just did not have the skills. Still won many taps as they were picked because they were tall for rucks at that level - buy were unco with a footy because they were not used to playing footy. When I was in under 17s, we were Richmond fourths. Occasionally players were brought in from interstate to test out in our team before they went to seniors or U19s. (BTW, I played more in our U 17s 2nds than in our firsts and then usually backed up in our seniors second side later in the weekend). Again, I saw boys with big kid bodies outplay nuffer men in senior footy then and also witnessed the same through decades of watching footy. Yes, it is true that the majority of AFL rucks do better from their mid-20s - however, it is more often the case that it is because they did not come into the system with the same skill levels as shorter players - rather than some genetic thing that says if you grow a few more centremeters you will develop AFL skills more slowly. Watch some US college basketball to see how very skilled and ready to rumble tall sportsmen can be.

Regarding the wrestling, you must have watched more genteel junior footy than I played in and have watched.
 

Muddiemoose

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Hes got extremely wide shoulders so i can see him becoming an absolute beast in years to come, im extremely excited about his development. Honestly think he will be the next star ruckman in the AFL.
Also was captain of SA in his draft year and Larke Medalist (best finals performer)

Ozzes leadership and big game player
 

4tune8

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Also was captain of SA in his draft year and Larke Medalist (best finals performer)

Ozzes leadership and big game player
Yes, he was captain of SA and All Australian but Oscar Allen won the Larke medal.

I would be stoked to get Deven Robertson, this years Larke medallist, but cant seeing him getting past Wet Toasts pick. Pity they lost the last game against the Poos and Wees.
 

Calcium Man

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Yes, he was captain of SA and All Australian but Oscar Allen won the Larke medal.

I would be stoked to get Deven Robertson, this years Larke medallist, but cant seeing him getting past Wet Toasts pick. Pity they lost the last game against the Poos and Wees.
What difference does that make? They were always gonna pick before us ;)
 

Muddiemoose

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Yes, he was captain of SA and All Australian but Oscar Allen won the Larke medal.

I would be stoked to get Deven Robertson, this years Larke medallist, but cant seeing him getting past Wet Toasts pick. Pity they lost the last game against the Poos and Wees.
Sorry your right!

I got confused with Graham who was also captain and Larke Medalist

Who knows we may be able to move up the draft order or the coast may need to use those early picks to get Kelly or even Bolton (if he chooses to go home)

Love how our club are specifically targeting leaders and big game players
 

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Dr Tigris

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When playing suburban footy, I played with rucks of various types. Some young rucks had big bodies and great skills for the level and did well playing against men while still in their teens and early twenties even though they lighter and had less muscle. The not so great rucks included ex-rugby players and others who had played little footy. They had the bodies along with the height but just did not have the skills. Still won many taps as they were picked because they were tall for rucks at that level - buy were unco with a footy because they were not used to playing footy. When I was in under 17s, we were Richmond fourths. Occasionally players were brought in from interstate to test out in our team before they went to seniors or U19s. (BTW, I played more in our U 17s 2nds than in our firsts and then usually backed up in our seniors second side later in the weekend). Again, I saw boys with big kid bodies outplay nuffer men in senior footy then and also witnessed the same through decades of watching footy. Yes, it is true that the majority of AFL rucks do better from their mid-20s - however, it is more often the case that it is because they did not come into the system with the same skill levels as shorter players - rather than some genetic thing that says if you grow a few more centremeters you will develop AFL skills more slowly. Watch some US college basketball to see how very skilled and ready to rumble tall sportsmen can be.

Regarding the wrestling, you must have watched more genteel junior footy than I played in and have watched.

Good points. I was explicitly talking of AFL rucks. There the guys are the most athletic, physically developed and toughest, as well as often footy smart. Your big lunks are up against the most fully mature monsters. So at a lower level sheer size is key. In the AFL that is a basic starting point. Without it you'd better be genuinely elite to stand a chance.
 

Infamy

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IMO talls don’t need more time to develop just because they are tall (eg Grundy). If a player is skilful and tall they will develop at the same speed as shorter players. The talls that need the extra time are those that would not get considered for AFL on ability but are brought into the system purely because they are tall (eg Soldo). These types have probably played fewer games of footy or certainly fewer games where they were expected to have any ability except to ruck or take easy grabs over smaller players - hence they need more time to pick up skills that others have already developed.
Its not really related to skills, its more that for many young rucks they are often injury prone while they grow into their bodies. Plus when going up against senior AFL rucks, they are usually giving away about 30kg in size which allows them to be monstered. It takes a while to put on the strength required as well as the running ability at the same time as avoiding them breaking down from trying to accelerate their physical development.
 

ohhhBigMalcho

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very confident in big CCJ as a Mcevoy style ruck meets FF who clunks marks. only concern at this stage is his ruck work and leap, doesn't seem to win a lot of hitouts, albeit he never plays as a pure ruck, just an observation from a small sample size of VFL. also not sure how we fit Balta CCJ Lynch and Jack in the same side as Nank and Soldo, good conundrum to have but the rivals will come soon with a big offer.

also Balta Being groomed as a KPD makes a lot of sense
 

JAKLAUGHING

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very confident in big CCJ as a Mcevoy style ruck meets FF who clunks marks. only concern at this stage is his ruck work and leap, doesn't seem to win a lot of hitouts, albeit he never plays as a pure ruck, just an observation from a small sample size of VFL. also not sure how we fit Balta CCJ Lynch and Jack in the same side as Nank and Soldo, good conundrum to have but the rivals will come soon with a big offer.

also Balta Being groomed as a KPD makes a lot of sense
Not sold ho on the CCJ hype at the moment...I'm not sure how he even gets off the ground to take a grab...McEvoy is a good comparison, if he gets there!
From what i have seen reckon he looks a JR replacement that can take the Ruck work up forward...for me he lacks that zip of certainty...impact!
The contrast between him and Balta/Chol is huge...go so far to say even Nank/Soldo...
 

guruisatiger

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Yes, he was captain of SA and All Australian but Oscar Allen won the Larke medal.

I would be stoked to get Deven Robertson, this years Larke medallist, but cant seeing him getting past Wet Toasts pick. Pity they lost the last game against the Poos and Wees.
Wet toasts pick will go to the cats as part of time kelly deal
 

guruisatiger

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Not sold ho on the CCJ hype at the moment...I'm not sure how he even gets off the ground to take a grab...McEvoy is a good comparison, if he gets there!
From what i have seen reckon he looks a JR replacement that can take the Ruck work up forward...for me he lacks that zip of certainty...impact!
The contrast between him and Balta/Chol is huge...go so far to say even Nank/Soldo...
Ccj is very quick for his size
And has a great leap
Will be one of our best
Players in a couple couple of years
Ccj and lynch twin towers
From 2021- 2025
 

Tomnat Tigers

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Not sold ho on the CCJ hype at the moment...I'm not sure how he even gets off the ground to take a grab...McEvoy is a good comparison, if he gets there!
From what i have seen reckon he looks a JR replacement that can take the Ruck work up forward...for me he lacks that zip of certainty...impact!
The contrast between him and Balta/Chol is huge...go so far to say even Nank/Soldo...
 

riewoldt4aa2011

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very confident in big CCJ as a Mcevoy style ruck meets FF who clunks marks. only concern at this stage is his ruck work and leap, doesn't seem to win a lot of hitouts, albeit he never plays as a pure ruck, just an observation from a small sample size of VFL. also not sure how we fit Balta CCJ Lynch and Jack in the same side as Nank and Soldo, good conundrum to have but the rivals will come soon with a big offer.

also Balta Being groomed as a KPD makes a lot of sense
Against the bombers on weekend Callum didnt really do any rucking till the second half but once he went into the ruck i was actually impressed by his leap at the centre bounces and his body work around the ground.
 

Marcel Proust

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Not sold ho on the CCJ hype at the moment...I'm not sure how he even gets off the ground to take a grab...McEvoy is a good comparison, if he gets there!
From what i have seen reckon he looks a JR replacement that can take the Ruck work up forward...for me he lacks that zip of certainty...impact!
The contrast between him and Balta/Chol is huge...go so far to say even Nank/Soldo...
he is huge and seems to hang in the air
 

Dr Tigris

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Pretty sure I'm right
I hope you are right.

Just for interest sake. Comparison to Soldo. Ivan is huge and out muscles most AFL rucks already. His taps are usually to advantage. And he controls the stoppages through sheer power, helping our mids get the ball or stopping the opposition.

I'm aware CCJ is much more mobile (not hard :p). But relatively how competitive in taps is he? And in stoppages does he act like a monster mid (Nank), muscle monster (Soldo), or more a mobile mid like Grundy, or something else,
 

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