Player Watch #41 Hayden McLean

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TheMase

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#56
At 197cm, isn't McLean a little small for a ruck? I would have thought anyone under 200cm wouldn't have cut it...
Possibly small to be a full time ruck though their leap can overcome height. His size would be fine as a forward/ruck.

Amartey who would possibly be considered a forward ruck is also 197cm.
 

caesar88

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#58
Yes he does, but he's not a great ruck imo. A bit like Sinclair, he gives it everything, puts in around the ground but just can't tap to advantage.
Except unlike Sinclair, Nankervis has the basic skills required of a big man on lock, like marking.
 

Kirkswan

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#59
Possibly small to be a full time ruck though their leap can overcome height. His size would be fine as a forward/ruck.

Amartey who would possibly be considered a forward ruck is also 197cm.
It's starting to feel to me like we're gathering a collection of second string rucks but still only have Naismith & Cameron as actual rucks.

Any reason we haven't recruited another first string ruck that you know of? Even a development one would be good...
 

caesar88

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#61
Got any stats to back that up? Cause I don't think that it's actually true based on 2018. Might have been for previous years, but not last year...
I’m not saying he has Jeremy McGovern hands or anything but I’ve never seen Nankervis make any of the blunders Sinclair is prone to.

Ps. Please don’t think this is part of the wah-wah brigade over Nank’s trade. I’m glad we got rid of him if he wanted out. My point was more that comparing Sinclair to him is a little too generous to big Cal IMO
 

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mikey_san

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#62
It's starting to feel to me like we're gathering a collection of second string rucks but still only have Naismith & Cameron as actual rucks.

Any reason we haven't recruited another first string ruck that you know of? Even a development one would be good...
I saw another team (Hawks?) picked up a ruck this week at 209 cm - but he was the son of the Chairman or somesuch, so probably not a good pick for us.
While McLean looks a handy player I'd agree he's another guy who won't give us tap work. I thought they were going to have him as KPD/Ruck in development. I guess with Naismith, Cameron and Amartey all out they grabbed a guy considered next best available. But a pure ruck and a pure KPD would've looked good on the list.
Might see him today I guess. Was going to go to the game, but this weather....
 

mikey_san

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#63
I’m not saying he has Jeremy McGovern hands or anything but I’ve never seen Nankervis make any of the blunders Sinclair is prone to.

Ps. Please don’t think this is part of the wah-wah brigade over Nank’s trade. I’m glad we got rid of him if he wanted out. My point was more that comparing Sinclair to him is a little too generous to big Cal IMO
Bloody hell - hard to please. Sinkers kept us in it half the year last year. He was outstanding.
 

Kirkswan

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#65
Hard not to have the utmost admiration for his effort in 2018 but

Over-rated.
See, that's where we disagree... I don't think Sinkers is a great Ruck, but did have a break out year for him last year. I reckon Nankers had his the year before, but he too is not a great ruck. Just two good players who got the best out of themselves...
 

TheMase

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#66
It's starting to feel to me like we're gathering a collection of second string rucks but still only have Naismith & Cameron as actual rucks.

Any reason we haven't recruited another first string ruck that you know of? Even a development one would be good...
Well I guess as much as anything there aren’t that many good ones available in the draft. If they are you probably need to reach higher for them and with Naismith, Sinclair and Cameron all considered to be part of the ruck contingent we probably feel we have other priorities, particularly given it’s normal to only play one of those guys in a 22 these days.

In all reality there are only a handful of very good topline ruckman in the competition who can consistently win a higher % of hitouts to advantage, the rest are all in their vein of Sinclair and Nankervis as honest “go-ers”.

I suspect given the age of Sinclair we might look to pick up another developing ruck in the draft this year.
 

caesar88

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#67
See, that's where we disagree... I don't think Sinkers is a great Ruck, but did have a break out year for him last year. I reckon Nankers had his the year before, but he too is not a great ruck. Just two good players who got the best out of themselves...
If that is Sinclair’s best........ crikey
 

TheMase

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#68
Got any stats to back that up? Cause I don't think that it's actually true based on 2018. Might have been for previous years, but not last year...
Almost identical average marks. Sinclair more hitouts and goals, less disposals.

Numbers are fairly similar.
 

Kirkswan

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#69
Well I guess as much as anything there aren’t that many good ones available in the draft. If they are you probably need to reach higher for them and with Naismith, Sinclair and Cameron all considered to be part of the ruck contingent we probably feel we have other priorities, particularly given it’s normal to only play one of those guys in a 22 these days.

In all reality there are only a handful of very good topline ruckman in the competition who can consistently win a higher % of hitouts to advantage, the rest are all in their vein of Sinclair and Nankervis as honest “go-ers”.

I suspect given the age of Sinclair we might look to pick up another developing ruck in the draft this year.
Thought that might be the case. It seems that there is more of a gap between the best and the next in rucks than there is in any other position.

Naismith is what... 26ish? He could still give us some top years if he can shake off the injuries.
 

TheMase

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#70
See, that's where we disagree... I don't think Sinkers is a great Ruck, but did have a break out year for him last year. I reckon Nankers had his the year before, but he too is not a great ruck. Just two good players who got the best out of themselves...
I actually think you guys effectively agree.

I’ve been a big advocate for Naismith because I think his ability to give us first use of the ball is more valuable for us (particularly now with 666) than getting an extra 2 Marks and 4-5 disposals per game.
 

caesar88

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#71
Well I guess as much as anything there aren’t that many good ones available in the draft. If they are you probably need to reach higher for them and with Naismith, Sinclair and Cameron all considered to be part of the ruck contingent we probably feel we have other priorities, particularly given it’s normal to only play one of those guys in a 22 these days.

In all reality there are only a handful of very good topline ruckman in the competition who can consistently win a higher % of hitouts to advantage, the rest are all in their vein of Sinclair and Nankervis as honest “go-ers”.

I suspect given the age of Sinclair we might look to pick up another developing ruck in the draft this year.
I swear pre-Max Gawn there was never such an obsession with hitouts to advantage. It was almost the norm for teams to just accept an average tap and just hope for one who tried his guts out. But now we have seen what’s out there...
 

Kirkswan

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#72
I actually think you guys effectively agree.

I’ve been a big advocate for Naismith because I think his ability to give us first use of the ball is more valuable for us (particularly now with 666) than getting an extra 2 Marks and 4-5 disposals per game.
Possibly we do... it's sometimes hard to tell.

I am with you on Naismith 100%. I love having a tap ruck, add that to Heeney, Mills, Parker, Kennedy and Hewett in the middle and I think we'll be great!!!
 

TheMase

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#73
Thought that might be the case. It seems that there is more of a gap between the best and the next in rucks than there is in any other position.

Naismith is what... 26ish? He could still give us some top years if he can shake off the injuries.
Yep 26 but injury has definitely held him back. Given he has only played 28 AFL games I believe he still has plenty of improvement in his game yet to be realised. Just needs a strong run of continuity.

He gives us first use of the ball around half the time, that is extremely valuable. Whereas Sinclair if he wins the tap just drops it into the middle of the contest created the contested inside game everyone here seems to hate.
 
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