Player Watch #41: Mabior Chol - FA to GC

[Wallaby]

100% rather a kid from the wafl,sanfl etc or draft one.

Here's the thing. No problem with getting a kid from the WAFL, VFL or wherever - a big lump of a lad - they're a dime a dozen, and maybe we get lucky and pick one who can compete at AFL level. And he'd probably be better than Chol is right now. And, yes with Soldo going down and CCJ going stupid we are crying out for a better 2nd ruck than Chol at the moment.

But with Chol, you have a player who is 6'7", can run and jump probably better than most in the AFL, is a great shot for goal - and he's 6'7"!!

The potential upside is huge - will he reach that? Probably not. But he's definitely worth persisting with, because if he does reach that potential, he's an absolute match-winner. He'll be on the list next year.

I guarantee, that with what he has shown in bursts this year, if we put him up for trade at the end of the season, we would be swamped with offers.

 

[sregit]

Not the first, won't be the last player to be inconsistent and go missing in a final early in their career. There is enough in his early season form to persist with him.

Go sit in the corner and put your dunces hat back on. Surely you're not stupid enough to think hes worth persevering with. He's as soft as mush.

 

[db26]

Here's the thing. No problem with getting a kid from the WAFL, VFL or wherever - a big lump of a lad - they're a dime a dozen, and maybe we get lucky and pick one who can compete at AFL level. And he'd probably be better than Chol is right now. And, yes with Soldo going down and CCJ going stupid we are crying out for a better 2nd ruck than Chol at the moment.

But with Chol, you have a player who is 6'7", can run and jump probably better than most in the AFL, is a great shot for goal - and he's 6'7"!!

The potential upside is huge - will he reach that? Probably not. But he's definitely worth persisting with, because if he does reach that potential, he's an absolute match-winner. He'll be on the list next year.

I guarantee, that with what he has shown in bursts this year, if we put him up for trade at the end of the season, we would be swamped with offers.

You could be right , but give me a kid or player half his talent that gives me 120% all the time.If you haven't got intensity or endeavour won't make it any sport that's the bare minimum.

 

[Ceehook]

if CCJ and Miller are retained
we have used a rookie B on Balta's cousin .213 cm
I'd say looks like being cut , sad for Mabs but too easily pushed off his line in ruck contests and when blocked or out positioned for marking contests
its like he has no plan B ie(next time - get on a lead , stay down and rover the contest , crash the pack pack and bring the ball to ground, sneak out the back )

in the reduced numbers scratch matches this year he has excelled , more time and space and he has showed off some skills
better than Todd Elton , but just not enough output for AFL level

 

[Marcel Proust]

if CCJ and Miller are retained
we have used a rookie B on Balta's cousin .213 cm
I'd say looks like being cut , sad for Mabs but too easily pushed off his line in ruck contests and when blocked or out positioned for marking contests
its like he has no plan B ie(next time - get on a lead , stay down and rover the contest , crash the pack pack and bring the ball to ground, sneak out the back )

in the reduced numbers scratch matches this year he has excelled , more time and space and he has showed off some skills
better than Todd Elton , but just not enough output for AFL level

The big guy doesn't come until 2022... I think

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

You could be right , but give me a kid or player half his talent that gives me 120% all the time.If you haven't got intensity or endeavour won't make it any sport that's the bare minimum.

You need/want to be able to contribute to the team effort to win...if you don't...your just team baggage slowing the team contributors down...
No free rides in finals...

 

[Jozzy]

We have to be careful not to overreact with his recent performances, he’s still a contracted player and despite his last few games he has still developed a long way from the player he was three or four years ago.

I’d certainly omit him for Saints and wouldn’t play him again this season. That’s even if something happens to Riewoldt or Lynch. However, I don’t want to see the supporters just hang him out to dry. Especially when a lot of these same supporters were singing his praise not that long ago.

 

[Grrr]

We have to be careful not to overreact with his recent performances, he’s still a contracted player and despite his last few games he has still developed a long way from the player he was three or four years ago.

I’d certainly omit him for Saints and wouldn’t play him again this season. That’s even if something happens to Riewoldt or Lynch. However, I don’t want to see the supporters just hang him out to dry. Especially when a lot of these same supporters were singing his praise not that long ago.
[/QUOTE]
Reckon there has been a fair bit of overreaction already. Just watched the replay with Chol specifically in mind and whilst he wasn't a threat up front he flew for quite a few big pack marks and nearly took a few. On quite a few occasions he led Andrews away from the ball so that Riewoldt was one on one, but Jack had a poor night. One two occasions he did not go hard enough and a few times he was out-bodied by the rucks in contests.

Dropped a soda that should have resulted in a goal, held his own one on one with Andrews most of the time, and beat him well on one of those occasions that resulted in a shot on goal.

90% of Andrews possessions (all 12 of them) were when Nank was playing forward or when Chol was on the bench, we did not man up on him. At one stage Riewoldt directed Bolton to come down from over the 50m to man him up at full forward. He spent half the match unopposed, so that is coaching not players faults.

He rucked well.

He might not keep his spot but we made so many unforced mistakes, Rioli for his good goals made some howlers. Reckon Chol is being made a scapegoat for a whole lot of under performing players.

 

[Grrr]

We have to be careful not to overreact with his recent performances, he’s still a contracted player and despite his last few games he has still developed a long way from the player he was three or four years ago.

I’d certainly omit him for Saints and wouldn’t play him again this season. That’s even if something happens to Riewoldt or Lynch. However, I don’t want to see the supporters just hang him out to dry. Especially when a lot of these same supporters were singing his praise not that long ago.

Reckon there has been a fair bit of overreaction already. Just watched the replay with Chol specifically in mind and whilst he wasn't a threat up front he flew for quite a few big pack marks and nearly took a few. On quite a few occasions he led Andrews away from the ball so that Riewoldt was one on one, but Jack had a poor night. One two occasions he did not go hard enough and a few times he was out-bodied by the rucks in contests.

Dropped a soda that should have resulted in a goal, held his own one on one with Andrews most of the time, and beat him well on one of those occasions that resulted in a shot on goal.

90% of Andrews possessions (all 12 of them) were when Nank was playing forward or when Chol was on the bench, we did not man up on him. At one stage Riewoldt directed Bolton to come down from over the 50m to man him up at full forward. He spent half the match unopposed, so that is coaching not players faults.

He rucked well.

He might not keep his spot but we made so many unforced mistakes, Rioli for his good goals made some howlers. Reckon Chol is being made a scapegoat for a whole lot of under performing players.

 

[tora tora tora]

I thought his ruckwork in the second half at least showed some good aggression. There were glimpses of what he could be as a ruckman especially at boundary throw ins where his leap had him miles above his opponent. Was way better than last week I thought.

Sorry I had a look at the replay. When Chol was at boundary contests he started being 10m off and behind his opponent, that far away he doesn't even look like he's the nominated ruckman, and mostly didn't even impact the contest. In the centre he jumps high and occaisonally, accidentally makes contact with the ball. Has zero key fwd craft either. Blocked out of one contest, should've screamed at the ump. Then around the ground I'd he slipped over 3 times in contests.
Effort wise zero improvement on last week. I think Dimma is tanking selecting him. Chols profile says 91kg No way. Biggie is skinny at 196 & 87kg.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Sorry I had a look at the replay. When Chol was at boundary contests he started being 10m off and behind his opponent, that far away he doesn't even look like he's the nominated ruckman, and mostly didn't even impact the contest. In the centre he jumps high and occaisonally, accidentally makes contact with the ball. Has zero key fwd craft either. Blocked out of one contest, should've screamed at the ump. Then around the ground I'd he slipped over 3 times in contests.
Effort wise zero improvement on last week. I think Dimma is tanking selecting him. Chols profile says 91kg No way. Biggie is skinny at 196 & 87kg.

Chol is definitely not playing if both Soldo and Lynch were fit. And possibly not playing if Coleman-Jones was fit even given the above players out.

So he is probably second relief for these roles. I guess we shouldn’t be shocked if our second relief gets well beaten by the All Australian full back and two good rucks. But this looks a tremendously tricky selection to me with Nankervis looking like he will need support in the prelim and GF if we get that far and no other realistic looking option bar Chol. Unless you displace Balta from the backline.

 

[tora tora tora]

Reckon there has been a fair bit of overreaction already. Just watched the replay with Chol specifically in mind and whilst he wasn't a threat up front he flew for quite a few big pack marks and nearly took a few. On quite a few occasions he led Andrews away from the ball so that Riewoldt was one on one, but Jack had a poor night. One two occasions he did not go hard enough and a few times he was out-bodied by the rucks in contests.

Dropped a soda that should have resulted in a goal, held his own one on one with Andrews most of the time, and beat him well on one of those occasions that resulted in a shot on goal.

90% of Andrews possessions (all 12 of them) were when Nank was playing forward or when Chol was on the bench, we did not man up on him. At one stage Riewoldt directed Bolton to come down from over the 50m to man him up at full forward. He spent half the match unopposed, so that is coaching not players faults.

He rucked well.

He might not keep his spot but we made so many unforced mistakes, Rioli for his good goals made some howlers. Reckon Chol is being made a scapegoat for a whole lot of under performing players.

One instance Andrews reads the play better than Chol and beats him on the lead. He often seems to be behind. Dunno it seems obvious, not saying I could do it, but almost. And I'm 60 with a f++d back
Chol obviously needs the ball kicked on his head. But even then he's dropping marks. He wasn't the lone ranger on that front, JR & the backs were dropping sitters.
What I wanted to see vs Brisbane was a 22 that played our game to win & I reckon about 13 or 14 players were a Pass. It would be an overreaction to drop Shai for the 50s & JR for barely taking a mark. Not so much Chol. I suppose selectors just got decide whether that 22 with Lynch IN can win the next couple of matches or Broad, Markov, Ross , Higgins come IN

 

[tugga]

Go sit in the corner and put your dunces hat back on. Surely you're not stupid enough to think hes worth persevering with. He's as soft as mush.

Attack the post by all means, but not the poster.

 

[tora tora tora]

You could be right , but give me a kid or player half his talent that gives me 120% all the time.If you haven't got intensity or endeavour won't make it any sport that's the bare minimum.

After reading this I was expecting more games like the North game
https://www.afl.com.au/news/474383/...ing-footy-trip-short-6am-sand-dunes-hub-walks

 

[Grrr]

Sorry I had a look at the replay. When Chol was at boundary contests he started being 10m off and behind his opponent, that far away he doesn't even look like he's the nominated ruckman, and mostly didn't even impact the contest. In the centre he jumps high and occaisonally, accidentally makes contact with the ball. Has zero key fwd craft either. Blocked out of one contest, should've screamed at the ump. Then around the ground I'd he slipped over 3 times in contests.
Effort wise zero improvement on last week. I think Dimma is tanking selecting him. Chols profile says 91kg No way. Biggie is skinny at 196 & 87kg.

And the commentators said at that boundary throw in that the umpire had thrown it in short again.
He had 7 hit outs, Nank had 9 and did a lot more rucking than Chol.
Last week he was useless, outmarked by players half his size. Andrews out pointed him once or twice, was led to the ball a couple of times but when Chol was off Andrews did as he pleased, especially in the last half when Chol rucked more. To say there was zero improvement is just wrong. For one thing 7 possessions vs 3, a few goal involvements, Aarts and Cotchin, handpass to MacIntosh who hits the post. Flew in packs at least half a dozen times to at least attempt to mark the ball. Not saying he was good, just not horrible like last week.

 

[tora tora tora]

And the commentators said at that boundary throw in that the umpire had thrown it in short again.
He had 7 hit outs, Nank had 9 and did a lot more rucking than Chol.
Last week he was useless, outmarked by players half his size. Andrews out pointed him once or twice, was led to the ball a couple of times but when Chol was off Andrews did as he pleased, especially in the last half when Chol rucked more. To say there was zero improvement is just wrong. For one thing 7 possessions vs 3, a few goal involvements, Aarts and Cotchin, handpass to MacIntosh who hits the post. Flew in packs at least half a dozen times to at least attempt to mark the ball. Not saying he was good, just not horrible like last week.

I was happy with Nank's game. He was never going to outreach the big O but was valuable around the ground. Apart from this week we've got teams that have 2 tall rucks. Who spend a lot of time on the ground. I think its the best use of our resources to switch Broad in for Balta & bite the bullet and play Balta fwd ruck. With Lynch & JR. Broad can take tall or small fwds.

 

[Grrr]

I was happy with Nank's game. He was never going to outreach the big O but was valuable around the ground. Apart from this week we've got teams that have 2 tall rucks. Who spend a lot of time on the ground. I think its the best use of our resources to switch Broad in for Balta & bite the bullet and play Balta fwd ruck. With Lynch & JR. Broad can take tall or small fwds.

Bit of a risk to take out Balta from the backline right now. He was needed on McStay or Hipwood as they are really tall. Maybe Saints will go in smaller with Ryder out, but Marshall spends a lot of time forward. So maybe Broad can come in for Membrey, who has had good games against us/him before.
Lynch will come in and we are a much better side so Chol will not be necessary up forward. Still like two rucks.

 

[tora tora tora]

Bit of a risk to take out Balta from the backline right now. He was needed on McStay or Hipwood as they are really tall. Maybe Saints will go in smaller with Ryder out, but Marshall spends a lot of time forward. So maybe Broad can come in for Membrey, who has had good games against us/him before.
Lynch will come in and we are a much better side so Chol will not be necessary up forward. Still like two rucks.

The backline with Broad in it was a flag winning backline. He played on Hipwood in the 2019 final. Grimes/Cameron can't remember the other match ups Baker/McCarthy. Astbury on McStay or the ruck.
Nothing lost at all by having Broad IN down back. But the opportunity has probably passed. Just have to have Lynch & Jack & Noah pinch hitting.

 

[tigerz18]

Keep chol as backup with lynch coming in. We have played 4 talls all year when possible, and Chol is better when Lynch and Jack ar next to him. it happened earlier this year. I think we need him. He cannot play on the 1st or 2nd best defender. He has to take the 3rd. Persist.

 

[tigerdan]

Keep chol as backup with lynch coming in. We have played 4 talls all year when possible, and Chol is better when Lynch and Jack ar next to him. it happened earlier this year. I think we need him. He cannot play on the 1st or 2nd best defender. He has to take the 3rd. Persist.

You can't reward that kind of effort two weeks in a row. If we're going to try for a third leading forward it has to be Caddy because Caddy knows how to mark and is tough.

Having said that, I don't think Caddy's going to get a game this week. It may be as simple as Lynch for Chol. I'd like to bring in Broad to free up Balta to help in the ruck but someone would have to walk the plank and the names being thrown up (Pickett, Aarts) are not like for like, and that might upset our balance.

At this moment Chol looks like he's lost it between the ears and doesn't feel he belongs there. He really looks like a kid who's been tapped to play in the seniors for the first time and is scared of getting hurt. Which is a shame because he had a few nice games earlier in the year.

 

[Wallaby]

I'd like to bring in Broad to free up Balta to help in the ruck but someone would have to walk the plank and the names being thrown up (Pickett, Aarts) are not like for like, and that might upset our balance.

We lost. Maybe we need to upset our balance. Selection is always the great conundrum.

 

[telsor]

Because he is not and never will be a tall forward. You have to be special to play that position. He is a ruckman first and foremost, and when you are lightly built it takes time. Has come on well this year but the pointy end of the season and the pressure of finals football has caught him out. But he rucked better than people here have given him credit for, so at least that was an improvement. He is backup that has been forced to play because of injuries, he is very much still learning but has such incredible athleticism he is worth persevering for one more year.

Well, he's not going to make is as a pure ruckman, so if he can't hold down a KPP spot in reasonable fashion, then we need to move him on.

 

[telsor]

He's only 23, it's pretty constant across the board that big men take longer. No doubt his intensity hasn't been good enough in his last two games. That's no reason to give up on him.

He's only 9 months younger than Soldo.

Big men take longer, sure, but if after 5 years in the system he's struggling to compete, questions need to be asked.

He's contracted for 1 more year...that will be more than enough. If he's not holding down a place by then, he needs to be cut.

 

[Tackle Bag]

We lost by bugger all against a very good side.

Lynch Comes in this week which means Chol goes to 3rd tall fwd/ 2nd ruck. He gets better match ups forward in that role and his actual game time is likely reduced.


He isn’t in great form right now but he is our best bet against most remaining sides and their ruck stocks.

God help us if Nank were to get injured during a game and Chol wasn’t in the side.

 

[Grrr]

Well, he's not going to make is as a pure ruckman, so if he can't hold down a KPP spot in reasonable fashion, then we need to move him on.

He hasn't done a lot of rucking in his time at Richmond even in the VFL. Soldo, Hampson, Griffith and a few others have all taken the no.1 ruck spot in the VFL, so he has been a forward most of his career. He is not a great forward due mainly to one thing, lack of aggression. That might come with more confidence, because his ruckwork last week was pretty good overall. Like I said, he is insurance and that might run out next year when his contract does. Or he might come on like he has shown at times this year.