#4 James Harmes – traded to Bulldogs. Thanks for 'that' kick. You know the one.

[KickLongTackleHard]

He's servicable and also good mates with Hoges, so yeh, he stays.

 

[Proper Gander]

Harmes has enough tools to be a good player at melbourne for a long time if developed properly and he works hard
My point was our board has a tendency to only see the good in high picks early and only see the bad in low picks early

Probably true - but while I haven't been registered BF for that long, I have a suspicion Jack Watts has been decimated by more than a few over the years and from memory his was a reasonably high pick.

I like Harmes. His upside and attacking instincts are great. His consistency and defensive pressure are wobbly, but these things are fixable so I'm happy for selectors to persist with him. He's also got a dose of visible campaigner and mongrel about him which is good. Most of all, I like the story that he pretty much came out with himself that he really had to improve his attitude and training habits after being read the riot act by the football department. I like people who can learn because they're the ones who can get the best from themselves long term. Also he's a good natural mark and surely marking contests are the most Australian footy part of Australian football.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I like him - he has x-factor, hardness and a good mix of power and speed (which is hard to get).

He was a rookie pick for a reason and has a long way to go (as do most 10-20 game players..)

I think he's got a solid future with us, his skills can be on or off but I think it's more getting used to the speed of the game then anything technical.

 

[Topkent]

Probably true - but while I haven't been registered BF for that long, I have a suspicion Jack Watts has been decimated by more than a few over the years and from memory his was a reasonably high pick.

I like Harmes. His upside and attacking instincts are great. His consistency and defensive pressure are wobbly, but these things are fixable so I'm happy for selectors to persist with him. He's also got a dose of visible campaigner and mongrel about him which is good. Most of all, I like the story that he pretty much came out with himself that he really had to improve his attitude and training habits after being read the riot act by the football department. I like people who can learn because they're the ones who can get the best from themselves long term. Also he's a good natural mark and surely marking contests are the most Australian footy part of Australian football.

Watts was soft but even he didn't get s**t canned much in his first 20 games
Even the Toump still had supporters and still does to this day because of his draft pick, never shown a thing at AFL level
Anyway I think my brain works in the opposite to most
I like to find the attributes and reasons why a rookie could make it and often see the flaws and problems ( in my head ) of why a top pick won't
I'll always be harsher on Tyson Brayshaw Petracca etc because I know they aren't a guarantee

 

[Proper Gander]

Watts was soft but even he didn't get s**t canned much in his first 20 games
Even the Toump still had supporters and still does to this day because of his draft pick, never shown a thing at AFL level
Anyway I think my brain works in the opposite to most
I like to find the attributes and reasons why a rookie could make it and often see the flaws and problems ( in my head ) of why a top pick won't
I'll always be harsher on Tyson Brayshaw Petracca etc because I know they aren't a guarantee

Well sod anyone s**t canning him. It's stupid. He's a rookie pick, did nothing to get selected for a bit then turned it around to be a rising star nominee. You won't like it, but it's players like him that make me anti Matt Jones - not that the MJ has done anything wrong as such, but he's not the future. I like Harmes for similar reasons I've always liked Kent. A bit of X factor plus a personality that says a campaigner that opposition will come to hate. It's good that we a building a group of really hateable guys

 

[Topkent]

Well sod anyone s**t canning him. It's stupid. He's a rookie pick, did nothing to get selected for a bit then turned it around to be a rising star nominee. You won't like it, but it's players like him that make me anti Matt Jones - not that the MJ has done anything wrong as such, but he's not the future. I like Harmes for similar reasons I've always liked Kent. A bit of X factor plus a personality that says a campaigner that opposition will come to hate. It's good that we a building a group of really hateable guys

In all honesty I completely understand the Matt Jones hate.. if gets another year next year it will certainly be his last but I've come to accept that we are horribly short of wingers and he actually plays the role ok atm, so no point tearing the board down if he kicks poorly because no one in the reserves can play wing
He is average at everything except endurance so I see why people want him replaced with upside but it won't be this year
This new crop of kids all have X factor about them, obv I'm a Kent fan but I see plenty of potential in Harmes as well .. anyone who is tough and can take an overhead mark should be given more than 20 games to adjust to afl level

 

[Proper Gander]

In all honesty I completely understand the Matt Jones hate.. if gets another year next year it will certainly be his last but I've come to accept that we are horribly short of wingers and he actually plays the role ok atm, so no point tearing the board down if he kicks poorly because no one in the reserves can play wing
He is average at everything except endurance so I see why people want him replaced with upside but it won't be this year
This new crop of kids all have X factor about them, obv I'm a Kent fan but I see plenty of potential in Harmes as well .. anyone who is tough and can take an overhead mark should be given more than 20 games to adjust to afl level

Equally I get the Matt Jones support too. He's solid for what he is - it's just that every time he plays I feel as though it's a bottom six symbol. If we want to be a good side like proper finals and all then he can't feature because he is so very VFL/AFL cusp. And I feel the same way about Pedo but I'm too scared of being lynched on this board. Would defs buy either or both a beer though.

 

[Topkent]

Equally I get the Matt Jones support too. He's solid for what he is - it's just that every time he plays I feel as though it's a bottom six symbol. If we want to be a good side like proper finals and all then he can't feature because he is so very VFL/AFL cusp. And I feel the same way about Pedo but I'm too scared of being lynched on this board. Would defs buy either or both a beer though.

Maybe, but then I think most bottom 6 players are pretty pox anyway ..
Steven Armstrong won a premiership at WC
You need those workmanlike role players in the team because you need people who will do the work without the results or need for limelight
I hate Dawes but I understand why he plays .. everytime he leads towards the ball carrier he opens space for Hogan and Watts .. very hard to have a superstar play the decoy all day
But I digress, as soon as Melksham and Salem come back in next year I'd be very surprised to see Matt Jones again

 

[Proper Gander]

Maybe, but then I think most bottom 6 players are pretty pox anyway ..
Steven Armstrong won a premiership at WC
You need those workmanlike role players in the team because you need people who will do the work without the results or need for limelight
I hate Dawes but I understand why he plays .. everytime he leads towards the ball carrier he opens space for Hogan and Watts .. very hard to have a superstar play the decoy all day
But I digress, as soon as Melksham and Salem come back in next year I'd be very surprised to see Matt Jones again

Agree. Though even though I agree with you, I find it funny how the board (me included) has turned around on Melksham. His suspension has turned him around into the missing piece of the puzzle. Having said that, Goodwin talked up Hunt and that looks accurate, so maybe he sees some untapped whatever in the Melk.

 

[Topkent]

Agree. Though even though I agree with you, I find it funny how the board (me included) has turned around on Melksham. His suspension has turned him around into the missing piece of the puzzle. Having said that, Goodwin talked up Hunt and that looks accurate, so maybe he sees some untapped whatever in the Melk.

I was always happy with Melksham trade .....
He's tough and a good kick I'm sure he will play a role like Kennedy and Bugg in the team but yeah everyone looks better in absence

 

[Proper Gander]

I was always happy with Melksham trade .....
He's tough and a good kick I'm sure he will play a role like Kennedy and Bugg in the team but yeah everyone looks better in absence

I'm going to believe you...

...but I'm also going to do some research of your posting during the great Melk Melt last year to check your credentials

 

[Topkent]

I'm going to believe you...

...but I'm also going to do some research of your posting during the great Melk Melt last year to check your credentials

Go for it, I was also happy with us getting Kennedy as well although that was just on a trusting of Taylor
Lumumba has been his only black mark but he's been way better than s**t campaigner Clark

 

[Proper Gander]

Go for it, I was also happy with us getting Kennedy as well although that was just on a trusting of Taylor
Lumumba has been his only black mark but he's been way better than s**t campaigner Clark

Clark has become a noose around Geelongs neck.

I'm fine with it.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Hasn't even played 20 games

Well yeah. Either way he's not very good at the moment which is why he's struggling, it has nothing to do with our forward structure. He's not a good kick and makes terrible decisions. Plus he regularly fumbles the ball.

 

[Topkent]

Well yeah. Either way he's not very good at the moment which is why he's struggling, it has nothing to do with our forward structure. He's not a good kick and makes terrible decisions. Plus he regularly fumbles the ball.

He has alot to work on but I think he looks very comfortable for a kid in his baby stages

 

[Demons Advocate]

I really like and rate Harmes. If he can showcase more of his marking power and clean up his disposal a bit then he could be a good player for us. He'll never tear the comp apart but has the attributes to be a very handy contributor. Also he just seems like a pure footballer which I prefer to your pure athlete types.

 

[Mijhaa]

Well yeah. Either way he's not very good at the moment which is why he's struggling, it has nothing to do with our forward structure. He's not a good kick and makes terrible decisions. Plus he regularly fumbles the ball.

Terrible call. Harmes has only played 20 games and is already showing great signs. Will be a player.

 

[d33my]

In the course of about 8 weeks he managed to earn and then shake off the 'junk time' tag (helped in no part to a move to the HB flank).

Give him time.

 

[Djcjdees]

Maybe, but then I think most bottom 6 players are pretty pox anyway ..
Steven Armstrong won a premiership at WC
You need those workmanlike role players in the team because you need people who will do the work without the results or

There it is. Nail meets head. You can't have a team full of 'X Factors' because there will be some games where no one just does the basics.

 

[Topkent]

There it is. Nail meets head. You can't have a team full of 'X Factors' because there will be some games where no one just does the basics.

Someone mentioned it on the Sunday Footy Show I think, GWS have too many players who want to be the hero or make the play when you need a few blokes who will do whatever they can to see someone else be the hero and they are often the first player supporters want to see dropped because they can't hit the bullet pass or kick the winning goal

In that regard I've been very harsh on Grimes .. no doubt he ran and tackled and worked his ass off on the weekend and I probably didn't give him enough credit for that

 

[Tulip]

The board would be froffing over Harmes if he was a pick 8

He's not a pick eight though, because his disposal is terrible. People 'froff' over Salem, or have done, because he's shown ability to hit targets on a consistent basis. You don't like Salem and you do like Harmes, that's fine, but I resent the idea that anyone who disagrees with your analysis of what's right and wrong is somehow more base than yourself.

 

[Tulip]

Someone mentioned it on the Sunday Footy Show I think, GWS have too many players who want to be the hero or make the play when you need a few blokes who will do whatever they can to see someone else be the hero and they are often the first player supporters want to see dropped because they can't hit the bullet pass or kick the winning goal

In that regard I've been very harsh on Grimes .. no doubt he ran and tackled and worked his ass off on the weekend and I probably didn't give him enough credit for that

That player is not Harmes, though. Grimes, Kennedy, Trengove - sure. Harmes won his RS nomination by kicking three joe the goose goals in the last quarter.

 

[Topkent]

He's not a pick eight though, because his disposal is terrible. People 'froff' over Salem, or have done, because he's shown ability to hit targets on a consistent basis. You don't like Salem and you do like Harmes, that's fine, but I resent the idea that anyone who disagrees with your analysis of what's right and wrong is somehow more base than yourself.

Salem hasn't shown an ability to hit targets on a consistent basis at AFL level yet, he was talked up as a gun kick out of the 18s and it's become perpuated at senior level
Like I said because he was pick 9 people focus on the good stuff and ignore the bad, it's classic melbourne board
You've gone liberal there I never said I didn't like Salem at all I said he hasn't proven anything yet in my eyes
You get far too sensitive sometimes

That player is not Harmes, though. Grimes, Kennedy, Trengove - sure. Harmes won his RS nomination by kicking three joe the goose goals in the last quarter.

I never said it was Harmes though his tackling and defensive work has been Allright the last few games
Trenners is almost cooked at AFL level and Harmes disposal is not better or worse than Grimes and ones been in the system a decade nearly

 

[Djcjdees]

That player is not Harmes, though. Grimes, Kennedy, Trengove - sure. Harmes won his RS nomination by kicking three joe the goose goals in the last quarter.

I thought TopKent was actually referring to Matt Jones when talking about the non-X factor players.

Someone mentioned it on the Sunday Footy Show I think, GWS have too many players who want to be the hero or make the play when you need a few blokes who will do whatever they can to see someone else be the hero and they are often the first player supporters want to see dropped because they can't hit the bullet pass or kick the winning goal

In that regard I've been very harsh on Grimes .. no doubt he ran and tackled and worked his ass off on the weekend and I probably didn't give him enough credit for that

Yeah I'm the same with Grimes. I have to force myself not to punish him for past c(G)rimes like 99% of this board do with Matt. Grimes was good on Saturday night but missed as many targets as Jones did. That's just what you get with those two players. However, you get 20-odd other disposals that don't miss the target. I thought they both had good games. Jones provided and outlet and was always there to receive and Grimes tackled his arse off and still got plenty of the ball.

Anyway, Harmes is coming along I think. He is being thrown around the ground a bit which can't be easy.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Salem hasn't shown an ability to hit targets on a consistent basis at AFL level yet, he was talked up as a gun kick out of the 18s and it's become perpuated at senior level
Like I said because he was pick 9 people focus on the good stuff and ignore the bad, it's classic melbourne board
You've gone liberal there I never said I didn't like Salem at all I said he hasn't proven anything yet in my eyes
You get far too sensitive sometimes


I never said it was Harmes though his tackling and defensive work has been Allright the last few games
Trenners is almost cooked at AFL level and Harmes disposal is not better or worse than Grimes and ones been in the system a decade nearly

I think you're too harsh on Salem.

He's played 20 games and has shown hardness, natural strength, attacking flair, great skill (which is inconsistent, but he's played 20 games) and a touch of freak.

Obviously he's still a way off the finished package, but you can't criticise a young player for that.