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Player Watch #44 Sydney Stack

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TJTIGER said:
Hope this makes sense...I think Dimma/match committee have certain not negotiables in terms of culture/team standards. A team at the stage we are at (not chasing 1 or 2 wins due to balance sheet) will be more focussed on big picture (long term view). If there is a less talented player who fulfills more of those cultural/team standards aspects? My opinion is they will get picked before more talented players.

This way selection and retaining players is in built into your system and players are given an equal opportunity to break into the senior team based on work etc

If just based on talent alone team selection can become inconsistent and players having worked their butts of can get passed, by new players. Not much incentive to work hard for 2 or 3 years if you ask me. Hope I've explained it in a clear way?? This can devastate teams if not handled well...
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Reckon you've summed it up perfectly. If you look back at the make up of our premiership sides I reckon it becomes clear that we've put in place a system that rewards hard work and desire to get the best out of yourself as a player, as it gives everyone an opportunity to succeed whether they are drafted as a first round pick or the last round of the rookie draft.

Stack himself is a perfect example, overlooked in the drafts he was given a last crack at it and had to work his backside off just to make the list. Once he made the list he kept on pushing and forced his way into the side after 2 weeks and maintained his position for the majority of the season before others passed him by/injury struck. And who was he replaced by, Baker a rookie listed kid himself. Then look at the other late round picks that played in the 2 premierships Grimes Graham Broad Short Soldo Lambert Townsend Castagna Butler, then there is the likes of Ross who pushed himself ahead of players picked ahead(C.Ellis Menadue) of him in the drafts to secure a spot in the side before injury ruined his season.
 
tiger_tough said:
That is a myth.

He went at 71.8% last year. For someone who gets the overwhelming majority of his possessions outside and uncontested, that is not elite.

FYI Houli went at 80.2, Baker 69.8, Ellis 77.3, Stack 80.8 and Vlastuin 82.7 - All of who win more contested ball.
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One day I'll post a video called 'Jayden Short kicking the ball to the opposition'. Just got to edit it down from its current four hours.
 
_RT_ said:
Agree there is a number of spots that are up for grabs, which then comes back to who is in form, and by form I mean playing their role in the side well, rather than just getting good stats. Hardwick has mentioned a lot of times about how the club measures a players impact on games a lot differently to what is the way normal assessments are made. You often hear him talk about how they're assessing things that don't show up on stats sheets, but that they value highly.

That is why you'll often see posters melting on selection night when a player they think isn't deserving to get picked continues to get picked and it all comes down to them being able to play the role that the match committee wants them to play as opposed to the way we the fans want them to play.

I go back to last year when Stack got dropped late in the season, people lost their minds and were questioning how the likes of Ellis Rioli Short Baker were able to keep their spots ahead of him and it all came back to them playing their roles for the team better than Stack was able to play his role in the team
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Stack was running up and down on the same spot when he got dropped last year. Nothing left in the tank.
 

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Grrr said:
Stack was running up and down on the same spot when he got dropped last year. Nothing left in the tank.
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That's true, yet people were still losing their minds at how he could be dropped ahead of the others named simply because they see him as the more skilled player
 
reckon rioli will have to start season well or sstack will slot in for him
 
tiger_tough said:
That is a myth.

He went at 71.8% last year. For someone who gets the overwhelming majority of his possessions outside and uncontested, that is not elite.

FYI Houli went at 80.2, Baker 69.8, Ellis 77.3, Stack 80.8 and Vlastuin 82.7 - All of who win more contested ball.
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71.8 would be be elite considering he kicks long 90 percent of the time
 
rammbo said:
71.8 would be be elite considering he kicks long 90 percent of the time
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Actually that would be the opposite. Kicks over 40m are considered effective.


Marcel Proust said:
yeah you have to factor in meters gained i think

short was #1 2018 in the afl and pretty good last year
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He gets higher than Stack (220) and Baker (240) but not surprising considering they both played about half their games forward. Houli is 480 to 460m gained and Vlas is 320m
 
Dr Tigris said:
I've got to write my spiel about our game plan. But I reckon that guys like Graham are far more important to us than most realise. In my mind I see us trying to play Ross and Graham to benefit our game plan. That frees Cotch and Dion to play an inside outside game. That pushes everyone else down a peg. Cause this improves our game, not necessarily that Ross and Jack, Graham of course, are better than other players.

A player such as Stack or Marlion has to break into a team where they are up against genuine proven A grade AFL players. They will sit behind those guys for 2020 round 1. So they have to be fitted into a spot that suits.

For example many appear to hate Short. But he is absolutely elite at what he does. It's just that he is a role player and definitely no star like Stack can be. Right now we'd be pretty silly to just stick Stack in for Short (I have to work out a short stack joke here). Overall Stack has a bucket load more talent. But Short is an absolutely elite user of the ball in the way we need it to be used. Horses for courses, and in his course Short is A grade.

We must want to play Stack, but our team is pretty stacked :p with class that he has to beat out. We're not short :cool: of players with high end AFL talent.

I see our core as being about 6 A graders and then guys that fill roles in how we play. The core of how we play is different to every pother team and I reckon to how any AFL team has ever played. We must have players that create and thrive on pressure and chaos. They are unusual traits to how people typically evaluate AFL players.

Image result for short stack
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Home made pancakes or GTF out! Not those vile fairy floss cakes at the usual place they sell pancakes!
 

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Disco_Stu said:
What's with people replying "I like this." What uninteresting contributions. (yes I understand the irony)

We have a LIKE button and it works (jacklaughing woodenrobot) Use it and spare us "I like it" cr4p.
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I like this...
 
tiger_tough said:
That is a myth.

He went at 71.8% last year. For someone who gets the overwhelming majority of his possessions outside and uncontested, that is not elite.

FYI Houli went at 80.2, Baker 69.8, Ellis 77.3, Stack 80.8 and Vlastuin 82.7 - All of who win more contested ball.
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Rewatch some games and see what Short does when about 70-80 out from goal. He usually nails a long ball high on top of Tom/Jack's head. That is, quite often what he does for us is pin point a long ball to exactly where we want it. That it isn't effective as per the stats doesn't mean it isn't effective for us as a team. We can set up for it and often goal from it from crumbing. Certainly it means it's damn hard for the other team to get the ball out.

So when I say A grade at what he does. What he does that is A grade is kick it long to a particular spot.

Stack has way more skills that Short. But Short does one thing really really well.
 
Dr Tigris said:
Rewatch some games and see what Short does when about 70-80 out from goal. He usually nails a long ball high on top of Tom/Jack's head. That is, quite often what he does for us is pin point a long ball to exactly where we want it. That it isn't effective as per the stats doesn't mean it isn't effective for us as a team. We can set up for it and often goal from it from crumbing. Certainly it means it's damn hard for the other team to get the ball out.

So when I say A grade at what he does. What he does that is A grade is kick it long to a particular spot.

Stack has way more skills that Short. But Short does one thing really really well.
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Yes I said that earlier. He is a nice long kick when seagulling around half forward. The problem is he plays half back. Thats where he needs to be dangerous, not the 1 time per game he hovers around whoever has taken a mark at half forward looking for the softest of goals.
 
Dr Tigris said:
Rewatch some games and see what Short does when about 70-80 out from goal. He usually nails a long ball high on top of Tom/Jack's head. That is, quite often what he does for us is pin point a long ball to exactly where we want it. That it isn't effective as per the stats doesn't mean it isn't effective for us as a team. We can set up for it and often goal from it from crumbing. Certainly it means it's damn hard for the other team to get the ball out.

So when I say A grade at what he does. What he does that is A grade is kick it long to a particular spot.

Stack has way more skills that Short. But Short does one thing really really well.
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Long high balls on top of key forwards' heads are a defender's dream.

There are two positions on Short. One is that his kick that led to Dusty's 3rd quarter goal in the prelim was great, because he took possession on the wing and delivered to the goal square. The other is that he bombed to a 1-on-3 situation that should really have been picked off by the Cats' defense, and was damn lucky his teammate's a genius.
 
tiger_tough said:
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Yes I said that earlier. He is a nice long kick when seagulling around half forward. The problem is he plays half back. Thats where he needs to be dangerous, not the 1 time per game he hovers around whoever has taken a mark at half forward looking for the softest of goals.
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Then why does he get a game? And why do we set up those kicks deliberately?

He usually goes for the 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. His role is to kick through the opposition's defensive structure. It's not rocket science. His job is to be an adequate defender, not Grimes, and to move the ball a long way quickly. I trust Dimma and co much more than BF posters in the value of Short.
 

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Dr Tigris said:
Rewatch some games and see what Short does when about 70-80 out from goal. He usually nails a long ball high on top of Tom/Jack's head. That is, quite often what he does for us is pin point a long ball to exactly where we want it. That it isn't effective as per the stats doesn't mean it isn't effective for us as a team. We can set up for it and often goal from it from crumbing. Certainly it means it's damn hard for the other team to get the ball out.

So when I say A grade at what he does. What he does that is A grade is kick it long to a particular spot.

Stack has way more skills that Short. But Short does one thing really really well.
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Shorts kicking is a weapon but from the eye test he had a few disappointing games kicking wise

granted sometimes there was not a lot of option but he still belted it to four oppo blokes fairly often

Dr Tigris said:
Then why does he get a game? And why do we set up those kicks deliberately?

He usually goes for the 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. His role is to kick through the opposition's defensive structure. It's not rocket science. His job is to be an adequate defender, not Grimes, and to move the ball a long way quickly. I trust Dimma and co much more than BF posters in the value of Short.
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the B Ellis defense
 
Dr Tigris said:
Then why does he get a game? And why do we set up those kicks deliberately?

He usually goes for the 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. His role is to kick through the opposition's defensive structure. It's not rocket science. His job is to be an adequate defender, not Grimes, and to move the ball a long way quickly. I trust Dimma and co much more than BF posters in the value of Short.
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Don't get me wrong I htink he provides value with the run an carry he provides. I just think his kicking is way over rated.
 
Marcel Proust said:
Shorts kicking is a weapon but from the eye test he had a few disappointing games kicking wise

granted sometimes there was not a lot of option but he still belted it to four oppo blokes fairly often



the B Ellis defense
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I liked BEllis. I like Stack much much more.

BEllis did job, that's all. We can replace him so he's moved to greener pastures.

I wouldn't be shocked if Short is moved on in a year or 2 if the kids come through. He's another role player with a few tricks. Well really one major trick.
 
tiger_tough said:
Don't get me wrong I htink he provides value with the run an carry he provides. I just think his kicking is way over rated.
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He has a role. He fills that role. That's it. Cheap quality to fit our game. I reckon his kicking is great. In the sense that he is good at hitting a target over a long distance when he's got no pressure on him.

The reason he has no pressure on him is that he isn't that deadly otherwise so teams try to shut down other players first. I can live with that. We get value for low cost and, well, that's all I care about.
 

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