Society & Culture 457 visa abuse

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Reynolds Number said:
Love how some engineering professionals still have their heads firmly buried in the sand over the state of the engineering job market.

I haven't been a member of EA since uni and don't intend to soon. $200 a year in membership to recieve **** all.

Currently studying another field and may well end up making a career out of that.
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I know a shitload of engineers that aren't in an engineering job, there are options outside of a straight engineering role luckily.
 
Not just in Australia.

In the US the issuing of H-1B visas is being abused to reduce company costs at the expense of local skilled workers.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150222-column.html

In the UK the Tier 2 visa system is being abused.

https://delimiter.com.au/2016/02/27/british-airways-workers-rally-tata-outsourcing-jobs/

This is a good example of governments acting in the interests of corporations over the people they are supposed to represent.

When governments themselves outsource the jobs to overseas workers that is ******* scandalous.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/work...es-with-457-visa-workers-20161130-gt0p95.html
 

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sorted said:
Not just in Australia.

In the US the issuing of H-1B visas is being abused to reduce company costs at the expense of local skilled workers.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150222-column.html
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Looks like there is some movement on this in the US.

A new bill introduced in the US House of Representatives proposes to limit the entry of highly-skilled workers into the country to stop companies "replacing" American workers.

The High-Skilled Integrity and Fairness Act of 2017, introduced last week in the House of Representatives by California lawmaker Zoe Lofgren, a Democrat, calls for replacing the lottery system with a preference for companies that can pay the highest salaries.

The bill says the visa programme "has allowed replacement of American workers by outsourcing companies with cheaper H-1B workers" and aims to end the "abuse" of the programme.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-38828181
 
Scotland said:
Govts can't really win. They get pasted for having too many full time employees and they get pasted for using casual labour and outsourcing.
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What happens when the debate is hijacked by union and big business extremes.
 
The issue I have is that it's a race to the bottom. If someone's here on a 457. I want it to be for a genuine shortage, and I want to ensure that person is getting the same wage as an Australian born local. Too many employers have used it as a way to get cheap labour while not training younger Australians. My industry had many 457s and they were good workers, but seriously especially the phillipinos they saw Australia as a paradise after their experiences in the middle east. I still think employers exploited them to some extent (Ie conditions weren't as bad as the middle east, and generally better money so they put up with poor rosters etc). I can see the need for them but the industry definitely needs better regulation.
 
Prestigerrycomo said:
The issue I have is that it's a race to the bottom. If someone's here on a 457. I want it to be for a genuine shortage, and I want to ensure that person is getting the same wage as an Australian born local. Too many employers have used it as a way to get cheap labour while not training younger Australians. My industry had many 457s and they were good workers, but seriously especially the phillipinos they saw Australia as a paradise after their experiences in the middle east. I still think employers exploited them to some extent (Ie conditions weren't as bad as the middle east, and generally better money so they put up with poor rosters etc). I can see the need for them but the industry definitely needs better regulation.
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Your right to an extent. I'm in finance at one of the big Engineering/Construction companies in the SE Asia, I see that we have some 457 workers, even in the office environment.
Employers have exploited the workers in some cases to lower wage costs, which I think is bullshit from the companies. However I don't mind the idea of the 457 visa, because if they are getting the same wages as the Australian workers it should theoretically make the Australian workers of a higher standard. There are plenty of blokes who are s**t workers and can't get regular work, So they straight away blame the 457 visa workers, when in facet if they were/are better at their job they would be employed.
 
sivart said:
Your right to an extent. I'm in finance at one of the big Engineering/Construction companies in the SE Asia, I see that we have some 457 workers, even in the office environment.
Employers have exploited the workers in some cases to lower wage costs, which I think is bullshit from the companies. However I don't mind the idea of the 457 visa, because if they are getting the same wages as the Australian workers it should theoretically make the Australian workers of a higher standard. There are plenty of blokes who are s**t workers and can't get regular work, So they straight away blame the 457 visa workers, when in facet if they were/are better at their job they would be employed.
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They are not. Nowhere near.
 
sorted said:
They are not. Nowhere near.
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I can tell you for a fact as i am privy to wages for budgeting purposes that the engineers and IT workers at my company are.
Cant speak for other companies though

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
 
The use of 457s is rife in the meat industry. Most are Asians, Muslims and South Americans on working holidays taking up "skilled" jobs, when in reality they are placed in entry level positions, or the apparently "skilled" workers are trained and placed in the more advanced jobs. The excuse given by Barnaby Joyce is that no Australians want to work a "dirty" job. The reality is that my area has a high unemployment rate, and with the closure of a local abattoir, power station and the upcoming closure of a local saw mill, out of work locals would be happy to take any job offered.
 
Turnbull has announced some changes but failed to abolish employer-conducted labour market testing and replace it with an independent labour market testing model. And despite the oversupply of skilled IT professionals in the market he has not removed any of the IT jobs from the skills list. It's just PR.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/w...-carry-over-into-the-new-20170418-gvn0yg.html

Also, the skills list won’t apply to countries where we have a free trade agreement. So that’s China, the biggest source of overseas workers, and there is a proposed agreement with India.
 
Hawk Dork said:
Im sure there is plenty of unemployed yoof that could be trained but 457s are cheaper....more profits for the share holders/to be exported to a shelf company in Singapore
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That's the thing. They aren't always cheaper to the company using their skills.
Especialy in IT. The agencies often source someone from overseas who is cheaper. They then bill that person out at full rate and take $20-$30 an hour above if they had contracted out a local. Its one of the reasons many IT agencies now disclose their client fees, to shiow they aren't those doing this.

And I note that software development is not among the skills being cut back, except web development which is often not the same thing.
 

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Back One Out said:
F**k me dead... How can this happen?

Do the people who supposedly run this country actually do anything besides getting themselves and their mates rich?
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Labor or Liberal, they are either in it to get their mates rich or to gain personal power. The dissatisfaction with this political situation has led to the rise in popularity of One Nation. But Pauline Hanson is a *******. Where is the intellectual conservative or working class figure who bats for the common man over the corporate twats?
 
Some more sweeping changes to come regarding citizenship, with the need to be a permanent resident for four years before becoming a citizen (seems very arbitrary and unnecessary) and the number of times you can attempt the citizenship test to drop from unlimited to three (this one is probably fair enough).

Under the current system my English partner would be eligible for citizenship late next year - if the changes go through it will be 2021 at the earliest.
 
Abba Lonie said:
Some more sweeping changes to come regarding citizenship, with the need to be a permanent resident for four years before becoming a citizen (seems very arbitrary and unnecessary) and the number of times you can attempt the citizenship test to drop from unlimited to three (this one is probably fair enough).

Under the current system my English partner would be eligible for citizenship late next year - if the changes go through it will be 2021 at the earliest.
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Some of the proposed questions remind me of that question on the US ETSA asking if you are a terrorist.

Is it really one of the great moral dilemmas of our time that we are letting too many wife bashers or genital mutilators become citizens?
 
96000??? Only On 457 Visas? Then there must be 1/2 a million working here illegally. Go to Springvale where you can get an $8 haircut and see 10 workers in each salon busting their asses for an income of couple of dollars per hour. Nobody is stopping this.
 
In the building industry, the plasterers are all Chinese and the tilers are all Afghani's. They are all subcontractors and in 457 Visa's. They are just paid a base rate. They are not paid overtime rates if they stay back, and they are not paid overtime rates on Saturday. They have been hired because they are cheap labor. There are plenty of Australian plasterers and tilers who have lost their jobs since this 457 Visa was introduced. They simply aren't being hired anymore, they just bring in the foreigners who are allowed to work for next to nothing and being taken advantage of by their employer.
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
96000??? Only On 457 Visas? Then there must be 1/2 a million working here illegally. Go to Springvale where you can get an $8 haircut and see 10 workers in each salon busting their asses for an income of couple of dollars per hour. Nobody is stopping this.
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They could be on 417 visas.
 
Have been told by a mate who's a former Dominoes employee that the Indians that all work there these days are being rorted big time.
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
96000??? Only On 457 Visas? Then there must be 1/2 a million working here illegally. Go to Springvale where you can get an $8 haircut and see 10 workers in each salon busting their asses for an income of couple of dollars per hour. Nobody is stopping this.
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$25 a haircut from a foreigner is expensive but at least in that case I'm supporting a worker's right to earn a decent wage and not supporting 457 visa abuse.
 
BuddysBiggestFan said:
96000??? Only On 457 Visas? Then there must be 1/2 a million working here illegally. Go to Springvale where you can get an $8 haircut and see 10 workers in each salon busting their asses for an income of couple of dollars per hour. Nobody is stopping this.
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A lot are on student or graduate visas, not 457s. Others come short term on 456 (business) visas but are vasically regulkar employees sent over for 3 months to learn the job and take it back home. This isn't so common now, but a lot of IT offshoring happened this way 15 years ago. Two Indian companies were rumoured (I can't personally vouch for them being on business visas as opposed to work permits) to specialise in it.
 
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