Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 11: Just Biden His Time

[ShanDog]

Mod Notice

The level of vitriol and frankly toxic culture in this thread is getting out of hand. As such, the thread will be monitored actively for posters who drag down the quality of posting for all others, and they will have their access to the thread removed.

Further, reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) will no longer be allowed. Much like other tropes of that nature, it serves as a conversational barrier and fall-back point for people to simply sling mud. That's unacceptable.

Thanks.

 

[Deliverance]

you are thick, you just cant debate, now you are trying to twist what we are actually discussing try

You are raving on now about immigration not illegal immigrants.

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population. Yet the latest data from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that non-citizens accounted for nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of all federal arrests in 2018. Just two decades earlier, only 37 percent of all federal arrests were non-citizens.

These arrests aren’t just for immigration crimes. Non-citizens accounted for 24 percent of all federal drug arrests, 25 percent of all federal property arrests, and 28 percent of all federal fraud arrests.


Migrants from Central American countries are also accounting for a larger share of federal arrests, going from a negligible 1 percent of such arrests in 1998 to 20 percent today.


A recent report from the Texas Department of Public Safety revealed that 297,000 non-citizens had been “booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011 and July 31, 2019.” So these are non-citizens who allegedly committed local crimes, not immigration violations.

The report noted that a little more than two-thirds (202,000) of those booked in Texas jails were later confirmed as illegal immigrants by the federal government.

Crimes by Illegal Immigrants Widespread Across U.S.—Sanctuaries Shouldn’t Shield Them

The decision by a California appeals court Friday overturning the conviction of an illegal immigrant who shot and killed Kate Steinle in San Francisco in 2015 once again put the national spotlight on the serious problem of crimes committed by people in the U.S. illegally.

www.heritage.org

And of course you just cant help but throw in the word racist, weak, try and debate like a grown up, not a squealing leftie on twitter.

Insults are your go to when you're wrong I see. I feel for you.

Let's simplify again for you:
I was asked by another poster "would I deport illegals convicted of rape?"
I said yes, but that rape by legal residents is a bigger problem.
Even though I'd answered the question already, you bumped in and asked if I would deport illegal immigrants.
I reiterated, yes, but legal residents committing rape are a bigger problem.
When another poster made a comment about black people. The discussion became one about race. I think it may have been at this point you got a bit lost.
Is that easy enough? Do you get it now? I'm not sure I can slow it down anymore than that, but will try if you want me to.


For a wider perspective beyond just Texas, new research is revealing that there is no link and in some cases there is less crime from illegal immigrants. Which makes sense because they are trying to avoid being deported to whatever terrible situation they are escaping.


"An analysis derived from new data is now able to help address this question, suggesting that growth in illegal immigration does not lead to higher local crime rates."

Is There a Connection Between Undocumented Immigrants and Crime? (Published 2019)

It’s a widely held perception, but a new analysis finds no evidence to support it.

www.nytimes.com

 

[CM86]

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigra...shows-sanctuary-cities-keep-communities-safer -2020
Facts still matter: Data shows sanctuary cities keep communities safer

Sanctuary policies do not increase crime. Crime is lower, and economies are stronger in sanctuary counties compared to comparable non-sanctuary counties. My work is supported by other academic research that reveals similar or null findings, meaning there is no relationship between sanctuary policies and crime. ​

​

What do the best available data tell us about sanctuary localities? Using data obtained from a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, I find that sanctuary counties have less crime than comparable non-sanctuary counties. Benjamin Gonzalez O’Brien, Loren Collingwood, and Stephen Omar El-Khatib find that there is “no statistically discernible difference in violent crime, rape, or property crime rates” when comparing sanctuary cities to non-sanctuary comparable towns.​

​

When local law enforcement officials do the work of federal immigration enforcement, undocumented immigrants become less likely to report crimes that they witness to the police, become less likely to report crimes that they are victims of to the police, are less likely to use services that require them to disclose their personal contact information, and are even less likely to attend public events where police may be present.​

​

Newer research I have conducted shows that when local law enforcement officials do the work of federal immigration enforcement, undocumented immigrants are less likely to trust that police officers and sheriffs will keep them, their families, and their communities safe; protect the confidentiality of witnesses to crimes even if they are undocumented, protect the rights of all people, including undocumented immigrants, equally, and protect undocumented immigrants from abuse or discrimination. Altogether, when communities are less likely to engage with, interact with, or trust in law enforcement, this undermines public safety.​

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/01/29/512002076/why-sanctuary-cities-are-safer -2017
Why Sanctuary Cities Are Safer

​

But the available data on crime, immigration, and safety in cities does not support the premise for the president's actions. News outlets and researchers pointed out during the presidential campaign that immigrants who are in the country illegally are less likely to commit crimes or be incarcerated than the general population. The American Immigration Council noted in a 2015 study that the recent period of rising immigration to the United States from 1990 to 2013 also corresponded with plummeting crime rates across the country. ​

​

This past Thursday, a new study conducted Tom K. Wong, a political scientist at the University of California-San Diego, found that there are broad benefits for local jurisdictions that resist cooperating with federal immigration enforcement — they are safer in the aggregate and enjoy stronger economies. "For the first time we're kind of seeing that crime rates are lower when localities stay out of the business of federal immigration enforcement," Wong said.​

 

[CM86]

Ha, love it when the name calling comes out. A sure sign that the battle is lost. And again, you haven't been able to comprehend what I've written, your summary of my words is incorrect. I can't simplify it for you anymore than I have, so I'll leave it there. Feel free to go back and read more carefully if you wish to understand.

He comprehends just fine.

He isn't replying to you. He is performing.

 

[Les Malone]

Insults are your go to when you're wrong I see. I feel for you.

Let's simplify again for you:
I was asked by another poster "would I deport illegals convicted of rape?"
I said yes, but that rape by legal residents is a bigger problem.
Even though I'd answered the question already, you bumped in and asked if I would deport illegal immigrants.
I reiterated, yes, but legal residents committing rape are a bigger problem.
When another poster made a comment about black people. The discussion became one about race. I think it may have been at this point you got a bit lost.
Is that easy enough? Do you get it now? I'm not sure I can slow it down anymore than that, but will try if you want me to.


For a wider perspective beyond just Texas, new research is revealing that there is no link and in some cases there is less crime from illegal immigrants. Which makes sense because they are trying to avoid being deported to whatever terrible situation they are escaping.


"An analysis derived from new data is now able to help address this question, suggesting that growth in illegal immigration does not lead to higher local crime rates."

Is There a Connection Between Undocumented Immigrants and Crime? (Published 2019)

It’s a widely held perception, but a new analysis finds no evidence to support it.

www.nytimes.com

LOL NYT Ha..... ha

Quote CNN next time for more lol's

TRY my links actually from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics .

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/icfjs9818.pdf

Your previous link about immigration was not even in the ball park of this discussion,

You messed up.

 

[Deliverance]

LOL NYT Ha..... ha

Quote CNN next time for more lol's

TRY my links actually from the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics .

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/icfjs9818.pdf

Your previous link about immigration was not even in the ball park of this discussion,

You messed up.

Haha. You didn't even read it. The studies weren't completed by the NYT. They just report on them.



I'm glad now though you understand where you went wrong in the rape discussion though.

 

[Deliverance]

"There is less research on illegal immigrant criminality,
but what research there is shows that illegal immigrants have
lower incarceration rates nationwide and in the state of Texas
relative to native-born Americans, although they have the
same rates of re-arrest in Los Angeles County.4
Consistent
with those findings, immigration enforcement programs
targeting illegal immigrant criminals have no effect on local
crime rates, which indicates that they are about as crime
prone as other residents."

 

[Les Malone]

Haha. You didn't even read it. The studies weren't completed by the NYT. They just report on them.



I'm glad now though you understand where you went wrong in the rape discussion though.

Because if the studies said crime went up in sanctuary cities or crime went down after they stopped being sanctuary cities, the NTY would not report it.
LOL

silly billy

If Trump found a cure for cancer the NYT would not report it.

 

[Les Malone]

"There is less research on illegal immigrant criminality,
but what research there is shows that illegal immigrants have
lower incarceration rates nationwide and in the state of Texas
relative to native-born Americans, although they have the
same rates of re-arrest in Los Angeles County.4
Consistent
with those findings, immigration enforcement programs
targeting illegal immigrant criminals have no effect on local
crime rates, which indicates that they are about as crime
prone as other residents."

No, no, plenty of research .... here it is, the official stats ... OFFICIAL, not made up ones from your leftist collective.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/icfjs9818.pdf

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population.

Non-citizens accounted for 24 percent of all federal drug arrests, 25 percent of all federal property arrests, and 28 percent of all federal fraud arrests.

In 2018, a quarter of all federal drug arrests took place in the five judicial districts along the U.S.-Mexico border. This reflects the ongoing activities of Mexican drug cartels. Last year, Mexican citizens accounted for 40 percent of all federal arrests.

In fact, more Mexicans than U.S. citizens were arrested on charges of committing federal crimes in 2018.

 

[Les Malone]

Um yes Sanctuary cities ....

De Blasio’s ‘sanctuary city’ laws leave NYC at the mercy of dangerous criminals: Devine

A predatory child molester and an alleged rapist are among the illegal immigrants released under Mayor de Blasio’s sanctuary-city laws in the last six weeks. Why doesn’t the mayor look the victims …

nypost.com

Sanctuary city policies are a threat to decent people

As sanctuary states and jurisdictions illegitimately usurp lawful immigration power from the federal government, they are overtly allowing and tacitly encouraging illegal immigrant crime.

thehill.com

Criminals Take Advantage of Sanctuary Policies for Illegal Immigrants

When signing Washington state’s sanctuary law, Gov. Jay Inslee – now a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination – self-righteously proclaimed that his state would “not be complicit in the Trump administration’s depraved efforts to break up hard-working immigrant and refugee...

www.heritage.org

 

[Carringbush2010]

To answer your question, I think he got through the primaries and got elected because people were understandably fed up with the status quo - and that means both sides, rather than any radical left wing agenda specifically.

Yeah pretty much the status quo, long long before the orange man was elected minorities have been noisy about progressive ideals for the sake of being progressive rather than any practical positive results of such progress. It has become the status quo, I'm more than certain as it seems you are people in some number were understandably fed up and voted as such.

I'm not sure what radical agenda you're talking about.

 

[Frank Bunn]

They go to California, a million white collar Indians in the tech industry bought in to suppress wages and and under cutting American born graduates who now cant get work.

Pelosi and Schiff territory and they love it.

The same story in Melbourne. Work is outsourced to India then those workers are brought onshore on the pretext of 'skills shortages'.

 

[darrenmorgan]

Anti corruption crusader Trump continues his selfless fight against the scourge: “President Trump has commuted the sentence of the ex-governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, who has been imprisoned since being convicted in 2010 on corruption charges over his attempt to sell the Senate seat vacated by then-President Obama.”

 

[Satan]

Anti corruption crusader Trump continues his selfless fight against the scourge: “President Trump has commuted the sentence of the ex-governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, who has been imprisoned since being convicted in 2010 on corruption charges over his attempt to sell the Senate seat vacated by then-President Obama.”

Going on celebrity apprentice was the smartest thing this crook did

 

[magpie_marty]

Bernard Madoff should get a pardon!

 

[Deaneus!]

Bernard Madoff should get a pardon!

He's asking for one now.

 

[Deliverance]

No, no, plenty of research .... here it is, the official stats ... OFFICIAL, not made up ones from your leftist collective.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/icfjs9818.pdf

Non-citizens constitute only about 7 percent of the U.S. population.

Non-citizens accounted for 24 percent of all federal drug arrests, 25 percent of all federal property arrests, and 28 percent of all federal fraud arrests.

In 2018, a quarter of all federal drug arrests took place in the five judicial districts along the U.S.-Mexico border. This reflects the ongoing activities of Mexican drug cartels. Last year, Mexican citizens accounted for 40 percent of all federal arrests.

In fact, more Mexicans than U.S. citizens were arrested on charges of committing federal crimes in 2018.

You're having a bit of a mare currently Les. You do realise the BJS stats are only referring to arrests? There's nothing in there about illegal immigrants committing more crime as you erroneously claimed.
Look, I feel sorry for you, as you seem to have real difficulty with complex issues, so I'll help you out. In future, I suggest you read more than just the headline and abstract. You'll be much more knowledgeable that way.

 

[bourbons]

Build a wall at the airport is that your suggestion?

Yes exactly, glad I was able to communicate that effectively

A wall doesn't stop 100% of illegal immigration nor drugs, but it's effective and well worth its cost. They already have camera, staff, scanners etc etc. No one is suggesting to stop any of those things but a wall is a barrier to make border crossing illegally significantly harder and at the very least assists staff in getting to the illegal crossers before they get away. It's not controversial really being it was a policy of the democrats previously, just further highlights how the democrats have drifted to the far left.

I'm sure it'd be effective at curbing the minority percentage of illegal entries that are literally walking over the border. But if you actually care about illegal entries, why wouldn't you target the greatest source of these? Not with walls but with more staff, tech and systems to follow up for example visa overstays etc?

The answer is fairly obvious - its an election tool. Which is fine (well, fine-ish - campaign promises usually don't cause government shutdowns), but doesn't make the Les Malones of the world actually believing Trump cares about illegal immigration any less funny.

 

[Satan]

He's asking for one now.

Or get his wife on fox like Rods wife

 

[sameold]

Donald Trump gives giant middle finger to justice, pardons biggest names in corruption and fraud

Are you a crooked politician or investment bigwig? Have you been convicted of fraud, bribery, and extortion? Well, COME ON DOWN to Dandy Don's House of Pardons! Impeached? No problem! Removed from office? Not an issue! Or, really, it is an issue … but...

www.dailykos.com

 

[Satan]

Quid pro quo?

 

[Present Not Past]

Bernard Madoff should get a pardon!

A guy like that - with all his prison connections - can be more useful to Trump out of prison than in.
After all, Trump is a businessman who doesn't do something for nothing - Quid Pro Quo.

 

[bourbons]

It's the pattern not just gender studies or the ritual acknowledgment of our traditional landowners, these are merely symptomatic. In themselves, alone, they are of little consequence. The PC agenda (incorporating ID Politics) is a first world phenomena. On the surface, it appears little more than the proselytising of good manners - As defenders will readily remind detractors.

Jordan Peterson has traced a marxist philosophical connection between post modernism and this PC/ID phenomena and draws relativist and nihilistic conclusions. I am not entirely unsympathetic to his line of thought, but I really believe that, whilst PC/ID may have commenced where Peterson suggests, it has morphed and mutated in the real world and serves a specific psychological protection for first world citizens - enabling a state of denial.

First, notice that not only is this a first world phenomena, its also less prevalent and more likely to be rejected - even angrily - by the less wealthy in the first world. From a global perspective it's a cultural phenomena coming from and alive amongst the 1%.

What it means is that over the last few decades, we have adapted to live without Irish jokes or Blonde jokes. We have learnt to avoid stereo-typical comments regarding domestic gender roles, homosexuality and gender reassignment. We have learnt not to say, write or think anything which might denigrate any primary group identity - religious, national, racial, gender, disabled... And all that is for the good. PC stand up and take a bow. A remarkable achievement for the well fed, over-indulged and over developed, resource hungry and distracted first world. A miracle. It's like we've all gone to the proverbial Swiss finishing school.

On the other hand, someone from the underdeveloped or still developing world might view this cultural PC refinement entirely differently. They might well be struck by the hypocrisy of a first world citizenry who not only enjoy the benefits of an historical technological advantage, but have continued to ignore their own governments and corporations relentlessly pressing that advantage thru the unrestrained exercise of economic, cultural and military force.

The first world citizen is either incredibly oblivious or deliberately unconscious but clearly compliant with this continued exploitation and domination of the rest of the world. We enjoy the fruits of that exploitation. Our very PC/IP refinement couldn't exist without it.

An educated person, from the underdeveloped world might suggest that our PC/ID Politics is little different to the refined politeness displayed amongst fellow slave-owners or European Aristocrats who too enjoyed and wished to sustain their advantages. Refined rules, which belie the truth, are not uncommon amongst thieves, mobsters and pirates. From this perspective, the PC/ID Political ideology is a kind of hypnosis to avoid seeing the indefensibly craven reality we occupy: a chimera, a performance art of fake virtue.

But to be frank, this is hardly touching the surface to explain how PC/ID Politics perverts humanity. Consider the global refugee and immigration crisis. Here as everywhere, PC/ID Politics creates a fake self hypnotising virtue laden dichotomy which buries reason under an avalanche of emotional garbage.. If you haven't seen this video - give it go -

So if the first world citizen really wants to see a better world with less poverty, they should be for restricting immigration. Every immigrant or refugee application is a sign that something is wrong. Granting Residency does not fix what is wrong, merely perpetuates it. What can we do? Is it our government? Our companies? Have we created a war? Can we assist them? The issue is complex and so are the solutions but accepting a few thousand or even a million refugees doesn't fix the problem - it merely kicks the can down the road for another generation of war and poverty.

Of course, granting residency resolves the immediate problem, we have done something and it makes us feel better, particularly when it is actually us - our governments - who destroyed their homeland.

Consider, if the entire world was like the developed world. Would PC/ID politics be as virulent? Could it even exist? Would it make any sense? If you think it would, then this movement is organic and a genuine progress. I don't believe it would. The arguments are unsustainable. If the entire world lived like the 1% there is no victim. If no-one is disadvantaged none of the virtue signalling makes sense and of course, under those circumstances, it serves no purpose.

Ergo, if it makes no sense in world were there is no poverty or exploitation it is something essentially part of a world of exploitation and poverty. And as it is exercised by and invented by those happy and content in developed world, it is there little conceit. It serves to keep the world as it is and helps to make them feel good about themselves. Of course, I could go on. Look at how even domestically, the PC/ID Politically possessed sees themselves actually superior to those who lack their finishing school refinement. And who are they that need to be shunned here at home but the poor, the ignorant.

This is an immeasurable perversion of rational thought and human understanding.

Dunno, it's not like people choose where they're born. You make it sound like we should feel some degree shame for simply existing in a first world western country. I'm fine with making some infinitesimally small concessions so that there's a chance that some particular groups, a whole range of people, feel less alienation than they might have previously - you paint this as an act of virtue signalling and hypocrisy, which I find ridiculous. Its actually just part of being in a society. I don't go round scolding people, I just do what I think is, on balance, reasonable and right. What should we be doing? Protesting more? Standing up to our governments in violent revolution? I'm all ears.

Also not sure why you've brought poverty and immigration into the mix, the point under discussion was supposed 'radical' left wing ideology and its effects/reactions? You can rail about the evils of mankind, but that's the point - poverty and inequality kinda are mankind, they've been things since day dot and are so inexorably part of being human that you might as well be pissing into the proverbial wind for all the good that wailing existentially about it will do.

Anyway... none of that answered my question - can you give me an example of how your life is impacted on a day to day basis? Or is it not, and your objection is purely philosophical?

 

[sameold]

Apparently President Donnies wall has to have gates in it that have to be left open for months at a time during the rainy season.

Trump shreds norms for his border wall, yet it is felled by saws, ladders, fit humans, air, etc. ...

Donald Trump is obsessed with his border wall, an obvious monument to his delusions of grandeur and bigotry. Supposed national-defense Republicans are so afraid of challenging Trump that they’ve looked the other way while he’s raided the Pentagon...

www.dailykos.com

 

[bourbons]

That's why they have walls at Jails and banks and Nancy Pelosi's house, but apparently a wall to keep illegals, drugs and gangs out doesn't work

Bet ya their electronics and security systems cost more than the walls did lol

Also, how big is the jail, bank and Pelosi house? 3000 odd kilometres to cover?

 

[bourbons]

Les Malone you seem to have missed Royces Hart's question.

Were you aware that Trump has a history of employing undocumented immigrants at his businesses?