Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 2 (cont in pt. 3)

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FireKraquora

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The absolute madman! Senators can't agree on the replacement of the failure of Obamacare, so he's just going to repeal first without a replacement! Then the Dems will be forced to vote in favour of a replacement or they will be the evil ones. 4D chess!

"So, in the coming days, the Senate will vote to take up the House bill with the first amendment in order being what a majority of the Senate has already supported in 2015 and that was vetoed by then-President Obama: a repeal of Obamacare with a two-year delay to provide for a stable transition period to a patient-centered health care system that gives Americans access to quality, affordable care."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/pres...g-obamacare-now-without-replacement-plan.html

Time to end the war on the middle class and get a plan that actually works!
 

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Crankyhawk

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President Trump’s approval rating after six months in office is the lowest of any president in the past 70 years, according to a new poll.

Just 36 percent of Americans in the ABC News/Washington Post poll released early Sunday approve of the job Trump is doing, while 58 percent disagree. Trump’s approval rating has fallen 6 points since a similar survey 100 days into his presidency, pollsters noted, which was also a low.

Americans also questioned the president’s effectiveness, the results show. Just 38 percent said he’s making significant progress on his agenda, while 55 percent said he is not. Trump’s competence on the world stage is also a concern, according to the poll.

Two-thirds of Americans don’t trust him to negotiate with world leaders on America’s behalf, and about half, 48 percent, say the U.S.'s world leadership has become weaker under Trump. Half of Americans also said they prefer ObamaCare over the Republican plan to replace it, which is supported by 24 percent.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342212-trumps-approval-rating-at-record-low
Polls schmolls. In this I agree with the trumpeteers that opinion polls are irrelevant, probably determined via random number generator or to sell media advertising.
 

Maggie5

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The absolute madman! Senators can't agree on the replacement of the failure of Obamacare, so he's just going to repeal first without a replacement! Then the Dems will be forced to vote in favour of a replacement or they will be the evil ones. 4D chess!

"So, in the coming days, the Senate will vote to take up the House bill with the first amendment in order being what a majority of the Senate has already supported in 2015 and that was vetoed by then-President Obama: a repeal of Obamacare with a two-year delay to provide for a stable transition period to a patient-centered health care system that gives Americans access to quality, affordable care."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/pres...g-obamacare-now-without-replacement-plan.html

Time to end the war on the middle class and get a plan that actually works!
Time to end the war on the poor as the middle class has been disappearing for years both in the USA and here.

Does the two-year delay mean that it remains as is or no health plan in place. Bit confusing.
If most things remain in place, costs will (are) increasing this will cause them problems with the tax cuts won't it?
Bit of a mess, they should have been working on this at least 12 months ago.
 

Happy Mastenator

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The absolute madman! Senators can't agree on the replacement of the failure of Obamacare, so he's just going to repeal first without a replacement! Then the Dems will be forced to vote in favour of a replacement or they will be the evil ones. 4D chess!

"So, in the coming days, the Senate will vote to take up the House bill with the first amendment in order being what a majority of the Senate has already supported in 2015 and that was vetoed by then-President Obama: a repeal of Obamacare with a two-year delay to provide for a stable transition period to a patient-centered health care system that gives Americans access to quality, affordable care."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/pres...g-obamacare-now-without-replacement-plan.html

Time to end the war on the middle class and get a plan that actually works!
I like the GOPs chances of telling the 10's of millions on health care that weren't before Obamacare that they are going to lose that coverage. Should be an easy sell
 

Crankyhawk

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Some pretty spurious achievements there. I'm now sure opening a new coal mine is anything to boast about, and withdrawing taxpayer funding on abortions will actually cause people to die, so nice one Mr. President, well done there.
Lot of trump base are anti abortion (OK a lot are wackjob Christian like pence) so they'd see deaths from illegal abortion as gods judgement.
 

Crankyhawk

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Abortions aren't being made illegal, you just have to pay for them.
If you are dumb enough to use a backyard abortionist, do you really deserve to live?
Surely goes against republican logic to have people too poor to afford abortion to proceed to deliver unwanted children they can't support (or more "useless welfare mouths")
 

Crankyhawk

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If you provide food to wildlife, the wildlife become dependant on you feeding them and forget how to fend for themselves. The same applies to welfare.

How dare they expect people to take personal responsibility for their own actions and/or pay for their own shit.
So you probably don't like Australian Medicare then. Because we fund healthcare for those who are unemployed/ disabled etc
 

Crankyhawk

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The rest of the developed world aren't even debating whether people deserve basic health care coverage, yet in the US it's the only bloody place that still tries to make it out like people don't deserve it, and if you think you deserve it then you're a freeloader. What a load of shit
Hmm does explain a lot about USA.
Maybe that's why the world will pay for the wall to keep the crazy in...
 

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Here's an interesting article from 25 years ago discussing the same ideas re: healthcare. From the Atlas society.
The full story is a long and complicated one, but the essential cause, I think, is simple. The essential cause is the assumption that if people have medical needs which are not being met, it is society's responsibility to meet them. In the current debate over health care reform, universal access has become the unquestioned goal, to which all other considerations may be sacrificed. The assumption is that the needs of recipients take precedence over the rights of physicians, hospitals, insurers and drug companies—the producers of health care, the people who deliver the goods—along with the rights of the taxpayers who are going to have to pay for it. In other words, those with the ability to provide health care are obliged to serve, while those with a need for health care are entitled to make demands.

https://atlassociety.org/commentary...are-blog/3652-is-there-a-right-to-health-care
What rights?
 

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awaremind

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One other factor is its one thing to say "get work", its another to actually find it

Despite laws against it, most employers in my experience are very reluctant to hire people with disabilities, esp mental disabilities. Even the old safety net (piece work packing show bags and poly bags) has been replaced by cheaper options now.

Its even worse for ex-cons

Not saying this is a get out of jail free card, pension for life!, but there is a reason many people in these situations are not working and it has little to do with want or capability
I've employed ex-cons and schizophrenics and even when they are excellent workers , which they can be, having to worry about theft or looping out on site is hardly ideal, and definitely stressful.
 

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Polls schmolls. In this I agree with the trumpeteers that opinion polls are irrelevant, probably determined via random number generator or to sell media advertising.
They are more so irrelevant in US Politics for a President. The only connection is if it affects the party.

In the Australian ( and English) political system they have more opportunity to fine-tune the person in charge of the Party and lead to better ( hopefully) numbers
 

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I think that without welfare we'd see an explosion in crime and institutionalization of even worse problems in the community.

Should a bigger focus be on education and training? Yes. Do the issues resolve themselves overnight or even in the medium term of years. No.
I think we would see more crime and more drug and alcohol problems - especially as alcohol and drugs would flood the black market. They would be very cheap as people would have to rely on selling something. But, we very well could see more entrepreneurs and people out actually having a dip, using their mind and trying to put themselves to good use. I know a lot of people on welfare who I believe would willingly go out and work any job if they had to. They just don't have to at the moment.
 
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I think we would see more crime and more drug and alcohol problems - especially as alcohol and drugs would flood the black market. They would be very cheap as people would have to rely on selling something. But, we very well could see more entrepreneurs and people out actually having a dip, using their mind and trying to put themselves to good use. I know a lot of people on welfare who I believe would willingly go out and work any job if they had to. They just don't have to at the moment.
I know a bloke who could write a book on ways to defraud /play the system who has been unemployed for about 20 years.

Owns his own house, plays tennis 6 times a week or so at our local tennis club and at one stage was actually President, showers at the club, uses the wifi there and makes phone calls from there but owns his own house and has been able to pay bills, rates etc and lead a fairly sparse but comfortable existence.

Likes to drink, but is not a druggie, just plays the system, i reckon he is a bludger as do quite a few other people and it makes me wonder how many people are out there like him, more than capable of working but just bone lazy and a bludger.
 

FireKraquora

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I like the GOPs chances of telling the 10's of millions on health care that weren't before Obamacare that they are going to lose that coverage. Should be an easy sell
Considering more than 50% of Americans have consistently opposed Obamacare, yes, it will be easy to convince people to end a failed system.
 

FireKraquora

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I know a bloke who could write a book on ways to defraud /play the system who has been unemployed for about 20 years.

Owns his own house, plays tennis 6 times a week or so at our local tennis club and at one stage was actually President, showers at the club, uses the wifi there and makes phone calls from there but owns his own house and has been able to pay bills, rates etc and lead a fairly sparse but comfortable existence.

Likes to drink, but is not a druggie, just plays the system, i reckon he is a bludger as do quite a few other people and it makes me wonder how many people are out there like him, more than capable of working but just bone lazy and a bludger.
I lived in my first house for 2 years in a rough street. The ice-addicted couple next door would invite me over to watch footy games, as they had foxtel and I didn't. Neither of them had ever worked, yet their house was larger and nicer than mine. They bought a slab of pre-mixed bourbon and coke every day (literally). It was a commission house, but I have no idea how they could afford foxtel, expensive alcohol, and meth habits.

If you know how to play the system, you can achieve a higher standard of living than a couple who work 50 hour weeks, as we were.
 
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I lived in my first house for 2 years in a rough street. The ice-addicted couple next door would invite me over to watch footy games, as they had foxtel and I didn't. Neither of them had ever worked, yet their house was larger and nicer than mine. They bought a slab of pre-mixed bourbon and coke every day (literally). It was a commission house, but I have no idea how they could afford foxtel, expensive alcohol, and meth habits.

If you know how to play the system, you can achieve a higher standard of living than a couple who work 50 hour weeks, as we were.
Problem is, if i have a lot of spare time, i tend to get myself into trouble, which i imagine would be a problem for many.
 

Maggie5

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If I have a lot of spare time I can make up stories too.
I know a few people that pay thousands of $$$ to accountants to minimise their tax payable and a couple that set themselves up before declaring themselves bankrupt. True story, worked for one of them, sickening! Owing millions.
 

PalaceGun

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I've employed ex-cons and schizophrenics and even when they are excellent workers , which they can be, having to worry about theft or looping out on site is hardly ideal, and definitely stressful.
I know a lot of people on welfare who I believe would willingly go out and work any job if they had to. They just don't have to at the moment.
I know a bloke who could write a book on ways to defraud /play the system who has been unemployed for about 20 years.
Owns his own house, plays tennis 6 times a week or so at our local tennis club and at one stage was actually President, showers at the club, uses the wifi there and makes phone calls from there but owns his own house and has been able to pay bills, rates etc and lead a fairly sparse but comfortable existence.
Likes to drink, but is not a druggie, just plays the system, i reckon he is a bludger as do quite a few other people and it makes me wonder how many people are out there like him, more than capable of working but just bone lazy and a bludger.
I lived in my first house for 2 years in a rough street. The ice-addicted couple next door would invite me over to watch footy games, as they had foxtel and I didn't. Neither of them had ever worked, yet their house was larger and nicer than mine. They bought a slab of pre-mixed bourbon and coke every day (literally). It was a commission house, but I have no idea how they could afford foxtel, expensive alcohol, and meth habits.
If you know how to play the system, you can achieve a higher standard of living than a couple who work 50 hour weeks, as we were.
 
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