Player Watch #46: Ben Miller

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BF Tiger

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Tarrant hates us... he's openly said beating us in a final is his fondest memory, they won a final the following week....
He's not coming to Richmond
Robbie Tarrant has one contract left in him I reckon. He’s not winning a flag at North, but he might win one at Richmond (or somewhere else). So does he want the chance at a flag, or to be a one-club player?

Likewise Talia… could go to a lot of clubs. Richmond would offer the chance of a flag, and he’d be moving back to his home state. I expect he’d be pretty cheap too.
 

richoplzbreed

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Article "Big Ben grasps his opportunity" on Richmond website yesterday pretty much telegraphs Miller is staying. Don't think they'd pump his tyres up that much and turf him out. It reminded me of every second game Cyril Rioli played. He might be only had 6 touches but wowee what touches lol. Bring in Talia best man gets Astbury's spot.
 

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Grrr

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Article "Big Ben grasps his opportunity" on Richmond website yesterday pretty much telegraphs Miller is staying. Don't think they'd pump his tyres up that much and turf him out. It reminded me of every second game Cyril Rioli played. He might be only had 6 touches but wowee what touches lol. Bring in Talia best man gets Astbury's spot.
Talia will get the spot, they always do. (Established players)
 

Moppey

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He's looked very safe on debut, composed, can't recall him beaten. Very good size for a KPD.
Would be pretty happy to see our defence line up with Balta at CHB and Miller at FB with Grimes the 3rd tall in round 1 2022.
Been calling for it for a good while now.
Still dont know if he is going to make it but he and Balta as far as KPD goes is all we have who are ready. Still think a player like Talia as cover for a season or two would be a wise move just in case neither he nor Nyuon come on and of course injury to Balta or Miller.
 

juss

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Been calling for it for a good while now.
Still dont know if he is going to make it but he and Balta as far as KPD goes is all we have who are ready. Still think a player like Talia as cover for a season or two would be a wise move just in case neither he nor Nyuon come on and of course injury to Balta or Miller.
I'm on the fence with Talia. For one, wouldn't want to pay him a big salary and would be worried about a 2 year deal, given he didn't play at all in 2021.

I'm also unsure if it's better for us to develop the kids like Miller and Biggy, or load up for another crack in 2022 with someone like Talia
 

Moppey

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I'm on the fence with Talia. For one, wouldn't want to pay him a big salary and would be worried about a 2 year deal, given he didn't play at all in 2021.

I'm also unsure if it's better for us to develop the kids like Miller and Biggy, or load up for another crack in 2022 with someone like Talia
Dont think getting someone like Talia is loading up for a crack in 2022. Its Pretty clear we have a real lack of depth with our Kpd's. What happens if Balta goes down again there is no old head like Dave Astbury to come in and fill the void it will be down to 1 game Miller and no game Nyuon. What happens if Miller gets hurt theres only Nyuon.

Pesonally id go for Schenslog from S/F he has been great this year in the WAFL and he is versatile as well. Still only 21 maybe 22 next year. It sort of reminds me of the Harry Taylor situation. And as cover and a mature head id take Talia.
 

Grrr

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Dont think getting someone like Talia is loading up for a crack in 2022. Its Pretty clear we have a real lack of depth with our Kpd's. What happens if Balta goes down again there is no old head like Dave Astbury to come in and fill the void it will be down to 1 game Miller and no game Nyuon. What happens if Miller gets hurt theres only Nyuon.

Pesonally id go for Schenslog from S/F he has been great this year in the WAFL and he is versatile as well. Still only 21 maybe 22 next year. It sort of reminds me of the Harry Taylor situation. And as cover and a mature head id take Talia.
Talia would be safer, but would probably get games in front of Miller, back to square one. SA, WA semi mature players are not as safe, but agree we need backup so might be the cover we need.
 

Mr Magic

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Just on Miller and Nyuon how many 198cm + gun backs are there??

Not many I would have thought.

Harris Andrews, is a freak but now Nick Riewoldt would even thinking of moving him forward in the finals ahead.

Darcy Moore is a freak in the sense his old man was a genuine superstar so he has the IQ in the genes.

Blicavs is a freak athlete for his height. Not to many have his CV on athletic achievements..

How many more truely gun defenders at that height and more??

Who knows with Miller and Nyuon especially Nyoun who has freakish attributes but it will not be easy and their development would not be a given given how difficult it is for them to achieve what is needed
 
Aug 24, 2017
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Just on Miller and Nyuon how many 198cm + gun backs are there??

Not many I would have thought.

Harris Andrews, is a freak but now Nick Riewoldt would even thinking of moving him forward in the finals ahead.

Darcy Moore is a freak in the sense his old man was a superstar so he has the IQ in the genes.

Blicavs is a freak athlete for his height. Not to many have his CV on athletic achievements..

Anymore truely gun defenders at that height and more??

Who knows with Miller and Nyuon especially Nyoun who has freakish attributes but it will not be easy and their development would not be a given given how difficult it is for them to achieve what is needed
Why do you always get so caught up on heights as if once a player is over a specific cm they can’t play a certain role or no longer viable because there aren’t others around the comp

Just judge each player on their own merits
 

Mr Magic

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Why do you always get so caught up on heights as if once a player is over a specific cm they can’t play a certain role or no longer viable because there aren’t others around the comp

Just judge each player on their own merits
Every play is diffferent and unique but height and other attributes are a factor that has to be overcome. Why do they have weight divisions in boxing and weightlighting? Why do they have the paralympics??

Some are more advantaged than others and that is identified to increase the chances of winning and competing.

Its hard for Bolton to ruck against NN, its just a fact and even if he could how long would his body stand up?

Remember historically players with such heights where never present so the sample size is small and the frontier is still under investigation like a mutating virus
 
Aug 24, 2017
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Every play is diffferent but height and other attributes are a factor that has to be overcome. Why do they have weight divisions in boxing and weightlighting? Why do they have the paralympics??

Some are more advantaged than others and that is identified to increase the chances of winning and competing.

Its hard for Bolton to ruck against NN, its just a fact and even if he could how long would his body stand up?
But in regards to Miller and Nyuon you ask how many 198cm backs are there.
Who cares it literally dosent make a difference For how they will develop as individuals

Of course you want a tall player to be a ruck or a key forward but you take the discussion to extremes that have absolutely zero relevance
 

Mr Magic

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But in regards to Miller and Nyuon you ask how many 198cm backs are there.
Who cares it literally dosent make a difference For how they will develop as individuals

Of course you want a tall player to be a ruck or a key forward but you take the discussion to extremes that have absolutely zero relevance
Because in assessing probability of success it is relevant. It is relevant in predicting the probability of players individually and their fit in teams made up of players with different attributes and achieve complimentary synergies. Every player is different and unique in terms of the overall matrix but it is a factor which influences the outcome its just a question of how much depending on the individual and the opposition and the team mates around a player and the rules at the time

For example how many 200 cm players play Eddie Betts role??? None I can think of. Even Buddy Franklin in his prime was not as good as Eddie Betts for ball on the ground and kicking goals at sharp angles.

We are talking about the extreme edges of current ranges of factors so that makes the acuteness of the factor more relevant. If the player was 194 or 195, not a factor, proven. Astbury was not a superstar but he was very good and important and critical in his role at 195.

So one does not blacklist someone because they are 198cm or above, Harris Andrews, Darcy Moore, Blicavs is evidence of that, but their rarity is a factor to consider combined with their overall effectiveness

Eddie Betts and JR where talking about Franklin on Fox before the GWS Swans match. One of them mentioned BUddy can still kick 65 metres. I bet, for all the will in the would Eddie cannot kick the ball 65 metres in the air. That does not mean Eddie cannot play. Eddie has his niche and role can be and was great but Eddie was not playing football because he could kick 65 metres in the air or not, that is a fact
 
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Spluff

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But in regards to Miller and Nyuon you ask how many 198cm backs are there.
Who cares it literally dosent make a difference For how they will develop as individuals

Of course you want a tall player to be a ruck or a key forward but you take the discussion to extremes that have absolutely zero relevance
Don't get baited into it...
 

Grrr

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Just on Miller and Nyuon how many 198cm + gun backs are there??

Not many I would have thought.

Harris Andrews, is a freak but now Nick Riewoldt would even thinking of moving him forward in the finals ahead.

Darcy Moore is a freak in the sense his old man was a genuine superstar so he has the IQ in the genes.

Blicavs is a freak athlete for his height. Not to many have his CV on athletic achievements..

How many more truely gun defenders at that height and more??

Who knows with Miller and Nyuon especially Nyoun who has freakish attributes but it will not be easy and their development would not be a given given how difficult it is for them to achieve what is needed
There is 2cm difference between our two and Allir Allir and Sam Taylor, not a lot in it. Not many 200cm forwards around in Nick Riewoldt's days either, now there are plenty, the King Bros, Cox, English, Lynch (199) and a few others. Players are getting taller all over the field. Miller is a very good athlete, fast with a good leap, Nyuon is a better athlete than Andrews, Blicavs and Moore.

We only need one of them to come on, 2 down the track would set us up and free up Balta.
 

PHanevski

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Just on Miller and Nyuon how many 198cm + gun backs are there??

Not many I would have thought.

Harris Andrews, is a freak but now Nick Riewoldt would even thinking of moving him forward in the finals ahead.

Darcy Moore is a freak in the sense his old man was a genuine superstar so he has the IQ in the genes.

Blicavs is a freak athlete for his height. Not to many have his CV on athletic achievements..

How many more truely gun defenders at that height and more??

Who knows with Miller and Nyuon especially Nyoun who has freakish attributes but it will not be easy and their development would not be a given given how difficult it is for them to achieve what is needed
Guns Backs, probably not a lot, but there are plenty of decent backs that height who played this year or just finished up:

Dougal Howard - 199cm, 97Kg, 25Yo, 85 games
Liam Jones - 199cm, 97KG, 30YO, 161 games
James Stewart - 199cm, 96KG, 27yo, 71 games
Harris Andrews - 202cm, 98kg, 24yo, 134 games
Alec Pearce - 201cm, 99kg, 26yo, 63 games
Jake Carlise - 201cm, 103kg, 29yo, 151 games
Jorden Rougheah - 200cm, 100kg, 30yo, 200 games
Darcy Moore - 203cm, 100kg, 25yo, 102 games

Then you have Phill Davis, Alex Keath and Daniel Talia who are all 197cm and have played plenty of footy.

Miller is 198cm, 96kg, 21yo and has played 1 game. I don't expect him to be a gun, but then neither was Astbury. What we are looking for is for him to be a part of a backline group. If he turns out better than that, then great, but if he turns out to be a solid player that does his job then that is what we need.
 
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Mr Magic

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Guns Backs, probably not a lot, but there are plenty of decent backs that height who played this year or just finished up:

Dougal Howard - 199cm, 97Kg, 25Yo, 85 games
Liam Jones - 199cm, 97KG, 30YO, 161 games
James Stewart - 199cm, 96KG, 27yo, 71 games
Harris Andrews - 202cm, 98kg, 24yo, 134 games
Alec Pearce - 201cm, 99kg, 26yo, 63 games
Jake Carlise - 201cm, 103kg, 29yo, 151 games
Jorden Rougheah - 200cm, 100kg, 30yo, 200 games
Darcy Moore - 203cm, 100kg, 25yo, 102 games

Then you have Phill Davis, Alex Keath and Daniel Talia who are all 197cm and have played plenty of footy.

Miller is 198cm, 96kg, 21yo and has played 1 game. I don't expect him to be a gun, but then neither was Astbury. What we are looking for is for him to be a part of a backline group. If he turns out better than that, then great, but if he turns out to be a solid player that does his job then that is what we need.

Talia is 196cm from two different sources including AFC website. I will scrutinise the others. Honestly give me May, Lever, Weitering, Allir, Allir anyday. Even Sam Taylor
your making a good case for CCJ though
 
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Drunken Wookie

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Robbie Tarrant has one contract left in him I reckon. He’s not winning a flag at North, but he might win one at Richmond (or somewhere else). So does he want the chance at a flag, or to be a one-club player?

Likewise Talia… could go to a lot of clubs. Richmond would offer the chance of a flag, and he’d be moving back to his home state. I expect he’d be pretty cheap too.
Being a one-club player at Norf is like putting 10+ years experience collecting Centrelink on your CV.
 

Mr Magic

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CCJ is as slow as a wet week in regards to being a backman. Ruck forward not too bad.

Look at Jake Carslie.

Even Dougal Howard the height plays a role in how he plays in terms of what he can and can't do.

That is where CCJ's versatility and ability to provide value in the Ruck and forward as well makes him quite valuable in addition contributions he can make across the ground in certain match up roles when his type is warranted in terms of goal mitigation
 

tora tora tora

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Look at Jake Carslie.

Even Dougal Howard the height plays a role in how he plays in terms of what he can and can't do.

That is where CCJ's versatility and ability to provide value in the Ruck and forward as well makes him quite valuable in addition contributions he can make across the ground in certain match up roles when his type is warranted in terms of goal mitigation
I do hope we keep CJ. I reckon as he plays more ruck time he will find himself in the backline. Which is different to being a permanent KPD. As far as our list goes, when Soldo gets fit we have a glut of KPF/rucks. I definitely want to use a draft pick on a KPD but if Balta or Miller gets injured we could try CJ down back.
 

Bojangles17

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I really disagree on the Biggie comment, physically he still looks a long way off. Here’s a VFL photo from him the season.
View attachment 1213594

I certainly believe in Biggies talent, ability and athletic traits. I do however think he could be a four to five year project. Someone like Biggie has been a real victim of Covid, it’s not often spoken about but with such a lack of VFL football regularly being played it’s made it very hard for some players development. He’s of course had some injury concerns along the way but Biggie has only played six VFL games throughout his two seasons on our list, I’m sure that doesn’t stop his development but I do think it could require some additional time, especially for the young talls.

My apologies for a post based around Nyuon on Miller’s thread but I wanted to use it to show why we have to keep Miller on the list. I really don’t see Biggie being up to regular senior football next year, regardless of going into any debate on whether or not Garth gets a gig next year even if he does I think he’s more of a Grimes/Broad third tall rather than a Astbury/Balta type who can play on the monsters and hold down FB.

I really think Miller should hold his head very high following his debut, he didn’t put a foot wrong. I am willing to acknowledge he’s still far from proven of course, but I do think it’s very important we often him a spot on the list for next season. Finding a really good, long term Astbury replacement is vital. We need to have a future ten year partner for Balta.
I reckon that’s a 2020 pic , he’s stronger than that now
 

Grrr

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Look at Jake Carslie.

Even Dougal Howard the height plays a role in how he plays in terms of what he can and can't do.

That is where CCJ's versatility and ability to provide value in the Ruck and forward as well makes him quite valuable in addition contributions he can make across the ground in certain match up roles when his type is warranted in terms of goal mitigation
Howard and Carlisle are very mobile and lean. CCJ is a ruckman who can also play forward. Would you want him running after a lose ball with a forward hot on his tail? Not bad off the deck for a ruckman, but for a back give me Rance, Broad, Grimes even Astbury. He's a ruckman first and foremost.
 

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