Player Watch #46: Ben Miller

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Hank Heavenly

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It’s hard to say
It certainly looks like that way but I also thought similar of Broad and Soldo both have become extremely important players
Broad knew how to play footy, but I thought his physical attributes might let him down, but he's gone above and beyond.

Miller has the physical attributes, I'm just not sure he knows how to play footy at that level, and that's something that can't always be taught IMO...

It's the part that's missing is what concerns me about Miller...
 

db26

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There is a position for him there if he wants it enough.He has footy attributes tho doesn't panic and decent mark and kick only maybe concern is awareness.
 

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Grrr

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Broad knew how to play footy, but I thought his physical attributes might let him down, but he's gone above and beyond.

Miller has the physical attributes, I'm just not sure he knows how to play footy at that level, and that's something that can't always be taught IMO...

It's the part that's missing is what concerns me about Miller...
I would suggest that Broad, who turned 24 in his first season with us, and played only 2 games in his first year, was an average player when he started. It wasn't until 2020 that he cemented his spot, having said that was probably leading our B&F before he went down this year.

Grimes and Astbury likewise were no stars early on, obviously mainly due to injury, but even still it took them a long while to become the very good footballers they are, great player in regard to Grimes.

So whilst he has been at Richmond a good while, Miller has played 2 covid seasons in the VFL and has had his share of injuries, so has had no continuity in his footy at all. Reckon it is really hard to judge him one way or another. But like Broad and Grimes he has the athletic tools to buy him a bit of time, unlike Garthwaite, and hopefully he takes a similar road. If he comes on, he will be a big part of us going forward as he can play on the real talls like the King boys.
 

Hank Heavenly

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I would suggest that Broad, who turned 24 in his first season with us, and played only 2 games in his first year, was an average player when he started. It wasn't until 2020 that he cemented his spot, having said that was probably leading our B&F before he went down this year.

Grimes and Astbury likewise were no stars early on, obviously mainly due to injury, but even still it took them a long while to become the very good footballers they are, great player in regard to Grimes.

So whilst he has been at Richmond a good while, Miller has played 2 covid seasons in the VFL and has had his share of injuries, so has had no continuity in his footy at all. Reckon it is really hard to judge him one way or another. But like Broad and Grimes he has the athletic tools to buy him a bit of time, unlike Garthwaite, and hopefully he takes a similar road. If he comes on, he will be a big part of us going forward as he can play on the real talls like the King boys.
Don't get me wrong, if he makes it, it's one less hole we need to fill. And just because I don't think he will make it, doesn't mean I don't like him either.

I agree he has all the athletic traits needed to make it, I just believe he's a bit "deer in the headlights" in game situations, and that's in the VFL, pretty hard to transition through that and do it at AFL level IMO.

It is hard to judge anyone after the last 2 years I agree, but on pure statistical turnover of the average AFL player, Ben is already up against it, and even the game against Hawthorn didn't scream...this kids got something... IMO of course.
 

Grrr

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Don't get me wrong, if he makes it, it's one less hole we need to fill. And just because I don't think he will make it, doesn't mean I don't like him either.

I agree he has all the athletic traits needed to make it, I just believe he's a bit "deer in the headlights" in game situations, and that's in the VFL, pretty hard to transition through that and do it at AFL level IMO.

It is hard to judge anyone after the last 2 years I agree, but on pure statistical turnover of the average AFL player, Ben is already up against it, and even the game against Hawthorn didn't scream...this kids got something... IMO of course.
Agree with this, I guess my point is most players, especially key backs get better the more they play. Garth was missing the athleticism and size, so was always up against it, Miller has that over most his size, so he is half way there. Just needs to learn to play, which as you say is pretty important, but can be learned as well.
 
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Sir_Loin

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I would suggest that Broad, who turned 24 in his first season with us, and played only 2 games in his first year, was an average player when he started. It wasn't until 2020 that he cemented his spot, having said that was probably leading our B&F before he went down this year.

Grimes and Astbury likewise were no stars early on, obviously mainly due to injury, but even still it took them a long while to become the very good footballers they are, great player in regard to Grimes.

So whilst he has been at Richmond a good while, Miller has played 2 covid seasons in the VFL and has had his share of injuries, so has had no continuity in his footy at all. Reckon it is really hard to judge him one way or another. But like Broad and Grimes he has the athletic tools to buy him a bit of time, unlike Garthwaite, and hopefully he takes a similar road. If he comes on, he will be a big part of us going forward as he can play on the real talls like the King boys.

I agree. We picked the eyes out of it with Broad who has turned into a very handy player. If we give Miller a couple more years in a working system he could be at that level. There’s a bit to work with there.
 

Cdog71

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Great player but unfortunately he was great for the eagles and just a humanitarian selection for Richmond
Little bit more than that I reckon, no doubt bumped the membership, it was the year that previous we’ve had for a while and there’s no doubt even though he was a drug pig there wouldn’t have been many who out trained him.
And he gets extra points for knocking Dan Conners in the mouth or black eye, whatever it was
 

tigerfan1961

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I'm not sold on him like others... I don't think he will make it.
Will be like Garth, handy for back-up if/when needed, but won't hold down a spot.
Really? I thought he was more than serviceable in that last round. Great size, decent speed off the mark and a good kick from my observations.
I think he can make it
 

Hank Heavenly

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Really? I thought he was more than serviceable in that last round. Great size, decent speed off the mark and a good kick from my observations.
I think he can make it
That Hawthorn game was a terrible standard if we are being honest. We had a VFL midfield in there on the day and still managed to match it with the Hawks. If he didn't look half decent that day, he never will to be honest. And who was he playing on, other VFL level forwards.

What if that was against a side with a hlaf decent forward line?

Well they delisted Garth and retained Miller & Nyoun. The selectors see something in him. Obviously taller than Garth. I think/feel he's good enough to play AFL level football. He is a bit injury prone and that meant Garth got a lot of games that Miller could have. I thought we missed a chance to play him in the games in Perth. vs Essadon, eagles.
I thought his debut was fine but Tarrant and Gibcus joining the club puts Miller back. He has to stay uninjured.
Maybe they just knew Garth had nothing more to give?, maybe Miller was the lesser of two evils?

I am honestly not trying to be rude to the kid, just a bit realistic IMO.

By all means, I hope he makes it, I hope all kids on our list make it, but the reality is, there are 40+ blokes on a list, and usually 28-30 are real AFL level, which means 10 aren't. All I'm saying is, so far, Ben looks like he's in that 10, not the top 30.

I also recognise, kids can develop from the bottom 10 to the top 30, but Miller's development so far has indicated a rapid rise to be that player.
Again, absolutely fantastic for us if I'm wrong, as it means we can focus on finding a forward to replace JR.
 

Moppey

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I agree. We picked the eyes out of it with Broad who has turned into a very handy player. If we give Miller a couple more years in a working system he could be at that level. There’s a bit to work with there.
I think with mature recruits if you are going to take em you really should be certain they are capable of playing to the level.
Just my opinion there is plenty not playing AFL who would be solid players at the level.

Its something i have never been able to work out not just with us but most clubs, the reluctance to give older players a go who have the attributes to play afl dominate state leagues and afl players when they drop back.They cost nothing low pay usually F/A late N/D or rookied.
Broad fit this description but at age 23 we had an extra 5 yrs of experience to judge if he could play at the level or not and in that i think you should expect they get it right.

For what it is worth im happy to have Ben Miller he had great physical attributes for AFL happy to give him more time especially with such interruptions in recent years. Like others though i think its time he really did take a step up or two or he will be in trouble.
 

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Phar Ace

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The recruitment of Tarrant does Ben no favours

Could turn out to bethe opposite - Tarrant has an injury-marred body. He'll get a rested a little even if his injuries don't recur (hope they don't). If Ben gets to step up for 5-10 games it would be a very sweet intro.
 

Grrr

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I think with mature recruits if you are going to take em you really should be certain they are capable of playing to the level.
Just my opinion there is plenty not playing AFL who would be solid players at the level.

Its something i have never been able to work out not just with us but most clubs, the reluctance to give older players a go who have the attributes to play afl dominate state leagues and afl players when they drop back.They cost nothing low pay usually F/A late N/D or rookied.
Broad fit this description but at age 23 we had an extra 5 yrs of experience to judge if he could play at the level or not and in that i think you should expect they get it right.

For what it is worth im happy to have Ben Miller he had great physical attributes for AFL happy to give him more time especially with such interruptions in recent years. Like others though i think its time he really did take a step up or two or he will be in trouble.
Tall AFL back's have to have speed unless they play like Astbury or Tarrant, strong bodies who reads the play well. Rance, Grimes, Broad and Miller are all really quick, massive advantage as they can play tall or small and are not a liability when the ball hits the deck.

Most of these sorts are identified at draft age, doubt very much if Grimes would have been drafted if he wasn't so quick. Not so many of these slip through to state leagues, if they do like Broad they don't stay there.

Reckon players like Miller and Nyuon are mainly there due to their athleticism and potential, and are possibly taking the places on the list of someone like you mention, a mid age strong state player. But if he can actually play, the rewards are much greater. It can leave you short, like it did when we had all our injuries last year, but I think the VFL is very much a development league these days, not just a place where you cover for injuries or form.
 

Grrr

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Could turn out to bethe opposite - Tarrant has an injury-marred body. He'll get a rested a little even if his injuries don't recur (hope they don't). If Ben gets to step up for 5-10 games it would be a very sweet intro.
I was worried that he might follow a few others and leave when Tarrant came in. He didn't which means he is still in the development stage. 5-10 games (or a few more) would be fine for his development, learn the game without the pressure and make his claim proper the next year.... if as Hank H says he is any good.
 

Moppey

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Any AFL game is a step up in all levels from VFL. If we had a depth midfield playing that day then that would be making our defence be under more pressure. So credit for the backline. Miller was 3rd tall after Astbury & Grimes. Did Some good defensive play on Koschitze who's a reasonable player. Their other "VFL players" were Ceglar & MCEvoy.
Unless Balta plays out of the backline Miller is behind Broad, Tarrant too and maybe Gibcus.
Our KPF depth Chol and CJ played the Hawks game so there are a lot of new faces, and players in new positions. Balta is the biggest qn mark.
I haven't seen anyone talk up Miller as if he's the next Rance. I, and most people here are happy he's stayed on the list. He is rookie list level resigned for another year. However, tall players like Garth, Miller & Nyoun are required to play in positions short players can't. Miller is first in line depth KPP.

You seem to be on a campaign against Ben. which is being rude to him. Good to have a discussion but give me video evidence of his poor performance. Or back off the boy.
Dont see how he is behind Broad. Nathan is NOT a kpd. Broady more often than not will get opposition mediums and shorter talls if that makes sense.He also provides a bit of run out of defense.Id best describe him as a tall medium.
For sure circumstance injury form has forced our hand to play both Broad on the odd occasion and Grimes in the key defensive roles and they have stood up well but it by no means makes it ideal and is clearly not what the club desires.

For mine next year Miller is only behind Tarrant and Balta for one of the key posts. If Balta goes fwd then he is first in line for the key vacant position.
Gibcus is more like Grimes atm, he most certainly doesnt have the size to stand oppo key forwards that will probably take two or three preseasons.

The way i see it if Balta goes fwd then it goes like this

Tarrant for Balta genuine kpd. People wont agree but atm this is an upgrade.
Miller for Astbury genuine kpd. Has a lot to prove but athletically he is faster, more agile, taller and bigger. 4th year time to play him and see what happens.
Grimes third tall and general.Atm i think this is Gibcus role but he is not going to get Grimes spot and when he does have the size he will play KPD.
Broad medium to third tall. also allows Grimes to play on the comps best smalls if need be, a role he does well.
Vlastuin mediums and intercept. Not really quick enough to play on the better oppo smalls.
Stack/Rioli/short/ . My preference is Stack because he can actually defend as well as provide run.

If Balta stays back then Miller will miss out and play VFL. Gibcus could be tried as a fwd as we need to find some depth here in case of injury.
The only other option fwd would be Miller who started as a fwd and is very quick.
Personally i like the idea of Balta fwd for this year. Establish Miller and allow Gibcus to mostly develop and gain size and strength in the two's.

It will all be null and void if Miller cannot step up and establish himself.

Greatest fear is the key forwards. Yep we have two very good established ones BUT one is 33.That is it. No back up no one in development nothing.

By some margin our best bet here is Balta. Have a look at the attributes for the role. Tall at 194cm, bloody big at 100kg he is genuine kp size. Fast, agile strong in the air and he has great skills for the role, a bit of x factor if you like. Best of all he has 47 games behind him. Even if we just go with JR and TL what do we do if one goes down early for the year. Its his experience and the fact he has played as a fwd before that makes him the ideal one to move fwd.

If Tom or Jack go down we are asking someone to come in and play KEY FORWARD. that s won't be Gibcus Miller or Nyuon. They have one game between them and they all look to be primarily backmen.
 

beema limapep

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Could turn out to bethe opposite - Tarrant has an injury-marred body. He'll get a rested a little even if his injuries don't recur (hope they don't). If Ben gets to step up for 5-10 games it would be a very sweet intro.
Well put. 👍
 

Grrr

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I liked Miller's debut but is behind Broad, Balta & Tarrant for a spot in the 23. We often select players to suit our game plan. As you say Broad can play on smaller types. I've seen him play on Hipwood too.
Game vs Lions this year we had Garth, Grimes & Astbury vs 200cm Daniher & Fullarton. Plus McStay.
The 3rd key fwd is a huge question too. Do we play 2 rucks? I guess we'll have to watch practice games to get a sense of what selectors have come up with
Broad has become a very good player and would be one of the first selected in the backline so whilst I see what Moppey is saying, the really big forward that play out of the goal square like the King Bros would be taken by Miller over Broad, Tarrant might get first crack which makes Miller behind both. Miller might get a go when there are multiple talls that play deep. Reckon the 5-10 game mark might be his go this year.
 

Grrr

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To your way of thinking, Balta is already out of the backine...so yeah, we need Tarrant plus someone at times . If Balta is playing wing/HF, then yeah, Miller is first in line. If Balta & Stack is wing, McIntosh/Pickett out. If Balta is HF, then George out of the 23. Maybe have Balta back up ruck too, instead of Soldo.
That is my way of thinking. I reckon Nank dominates all but the top 3 or 4 rucks, so having Soldo in is not really necessary. Also think he will need games at VFL level, hasn't played in a long time. So bring Soldo in for those games especially in the first half of the season. Balta would be the second ruck, but mainly play CHF as I think we are really poor in that position given Jack's age and Lynch mainly playing inside 50.

George to me has run his race. Has not improved and has a list of eager young half forwards snapping at his heels. Plus I think Edwards, Dusty and Cotchin and possibly RCD should be rotating through the ball and playing forward.

If we have a fit list this season, it is going to be really hard to get games. Miller will only get games if as you point out, if they move Balta. I also think Miller could play CHF as he has some natural forward attributes and was a forward ruck as a junior. He could be the swingman, but again most likely if we have injuries, which no doubt we will.

And Stack, on the wing for me, just such a great transitional player, could be something special out there. One of Mac or Pickett will have to give way.
 

Bojangles17

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Broady has redefined a back man's role...just like Rance...just like Grimes...just like Vlasutin...
He has the confidence and dare to intercept and attack while also able to defend , most wouldn’t know other than the astute that he’s conceded 1G in 3 GF , stiff too as Cotch gave the free away to Dangerfield
 

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Shhhhh keep a lid on it
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