Player Watch #46: Ben Miller

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Andyy said:
There was a period of time when Astbury went down that Miller didn't play, despite being fit at the time. Think we played Garth instead or just went short.
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Pretty sure that when Garth played, that's when Miller was injured.
 
Hoos said:
Pretty sure that when Garth played, that's when Miller was injured.
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Yeah Garth played pretty much all of his games this year when Balta + Broad went down after R15, when Miller was hurt.

Astbury was out injured R11-R15 inclusive, and this is when I really think Miller should have played as he was fit at the time. Only 4 games (bye in there) but I seriously question the club's decision not to play him then when he had Balta, Grimes + Broad to support/mentor him on the field.

Instead we went into games short-ish with only Grimes, Balta + Broad. Then we played Garth when Balta + Broad went down at the same time but Astbury came back in.
 
Andyy said:
Yeah Garth played pretty much all of his games this year when Balta + Broad went down after R15, when Miller was hurt.

Astbury was out injured R11-R15 inclusive, and this is when I really think Miller should have played as he was fit at the time. Only 4 games (bye in there) but I seriously question the club's decision not to play him then when he had Balta, Grimes + Broad to support/mentor him on the field.

Instead we went into games short-ish with only Grimes, Balta + Broad. Then we played Garth when Balta + Broad went down at the same time but Astbury came back in.
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Problem was we were hanging on for a spot in the 8, so I reckon they didn't want to gamble on a newby. Weird at the time, but pressure does that. Then he got injured as you say.
 

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JAKLAUGHING said:
Settle petal...😉🤭
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Lol thats pretty normal for some like him.. Don't worry about it is all water off this ducks back and just makes me more determined to voice what people don't like to hear.

The simple truth is our recruiting of talls since Hardwick has been there has been pretty poor. Thats not to say we got a lot right the preceding 10 15 years apart from the odd good un here or there.

But hey we just dont get things wrong at Richmond we won some flags. so means we have got it all right!!!!!!!, woe to those who actually speak up and point out we have not got everything right and we could have do better when it comes to certain things.
yep we found a few in the nd who have carried us to a flag from 12 15 years ago but because of the way we go about it the barrel is now almost bare.
 
Moppey said:
Lol thats pretty normal for some like him.. Don't worry about it is all water off this ducks back and just makes me more determined to voice what people don't like to hear.

The simple truth is our recruiting of talls since Hardwick has been there has been pretty poor. Thats not to say we got a lot right the preceding 10 15 years apart from the odd good un here or there.

But hey we just dont get things wrong at Richmond we won some flags. so means we have got it all right!!!!!!!, woe to those who actually speak up and point out we have not got everything right and we could have do better when it comes to certain things.
yep we found a few in the nd who have carried us to a flag from 12 15 years ago but because of the way we go about it the barrel is now almost bare.
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Maybe just stop talking crap and accept the fact that you have been bagging this clubs recruiting and list management since jesus was on the tit
Yet we have won 3 flags in the last 4 years . Are you just blind or not able to accept that you were WRONG and still are WRONG and not many on here likes your constant negativity regarding the same topic for years.

Take a look in the mirror mate and ask yourself why you support richmond , But your constant ass sniffing on the freo board indicates your loyalty
Freo board >>>>>>>>
 
tigerfan1961 said:
And yet despite not following your path, we’ve won 3 of the last 5 premiership flags? I think I’ll just trust the List Managers and recruiters until their strategy proves a failure.
P.S. I don’t disagree totally that we need more young actual KP players on the list
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What path im not advocating a particular path and haven't.. all i have ever asked for is we take a few extra talls, Take genuine kpp's instead of Half ruckmen Half forward but not quite either types and we take some with better picks than what we have.
Thats not a different path its normal operating procedure for the vast majority of clubs.

since the end of 2009 this is the list of talls including ruckmen we have drafted in the ND I go from 09 as that is where Hardwick took over.

09/ Astbury 33, Griffiths 19 one of those not quite either types who showed promise but ultimately failed.
10/ Derickx 63 ruck.
11/ Elton 26. In the words of the club a ruckman and forward in the mould of Ty Vickery. No wonder he failed just another like Vickery NQE.
12/ McBean 33 another NQE, not quite either type.
13/ ???
14/ McKenzie 77
15/ Broad 67 plays more like a medium been a good player but not really a KPP.
16/ Garthwaite 72
17 CC-J 20 another Not quite either type imo , Balta 25 hooray at last a tall that looks the goods and has put some runs on the board.., Miller 63 already been delisted and now a rookie.
18/ ????
19/ Nyuon 54
20/ Ryan 40 atm looks to be another hedged bet where we have half a ruck and half a forward but looks more like not quite either to date.

Apart from Balta you have to go back to 09 Hardwicks first i wont say season but say draft. to find a decent KPP.
In 12 drafts we have invested miserly in talls with just two top 20 picks and one in the twenties.
In twelve drafts just 13 talls taken and most after pick 40.We are taking them late but few and still expect them to succeed.
Not one tall has become a very good player after pick 33 for us outside of Grimes who was a PSD pick way back in 09 and Broad who was a mature pick at 67.

Im really scratching my head trying to work out what i have got wrong and what above warrants such personal insults and vitriol.
All i have done is state the bleeding obvious.

Just my opinion but when it comes to succession planning especially with the talls we could have been much better.

Tarrant a 32 year old had to be drafted because no one else was coming thru.
There is just two KPF'S 33 year old Riewoldt and 29 year old Lynch on the entire list. How is that good list management?
We had to go out and get Lynch because quite clearly at the time we only had JR with no one coming thru and it was not viable to play just one Key Forward every week. people are telling me we have got it all right. Please give me a break.
 
Moppey said:
What path im not advocating a particular path and haven't.. all i have ever asked for is we take a few extra talls, Take genuine kpp's instead of Half ruckmen Half forward but not quite either types and we take some with better picks than what we have.
Thats not a different path its normal operating procedure for the vast majority of clubs.

since the end of 2009 this is the list of talls including ruckmen we have drafted in the ND I go from 09 as that is where Hardwick took over.

09/ Astbury 33, Griffiths 19 one of those not quite either types who showed promise but ultimately failed.
10/ Derickx 63 ruck.
11/ Elton 26. In the words of the club a ruckman and forward in the mould of Ty Vickery. No wonder he failed just another like Vickery NQE.
12/ McBean 33 another NQE, not quite either type.
13/ ???
14/ McKenzie 77
15/ Broad 67 plays more like a medium been a good player but not really a KPP.
16/ Garthwaite 72
17 CC-J 20 another Not quite either type imo , Balta 25 hooray at last a tall that looks the goods and has put some runs on the board.., Miller 63 already been delisted and now a rookie.
18/ ????
19/ Nyuon 54
20/ Ryan 40 atm looks to be another hedged bet where we have half a ruck and half a forward but looks more like not quite either to date.

Apart from Balta you have to go back to 09 Hardwicks first i wont say season but say draft. to find a decent KPP.
In 12 drafts we have invested miserly in talls with just two top 20 picks and one in the twenties.
In twelve drafts just 13 talls taken and most after pick 40.We are taking them late but few and still expect them to succeed.
Not one tall has become a very good player after pick 33 for us outside of Grimes who was a PSD pick way back in 09 and Broad who was a mature pick at 67.

Im really scratching my head trying to work out what i have got wrong and what above warrants such personal insults and vitriol.
All i have done is state the bleeding obvious.

Just my opinion but when it comes to succession planning especially with the talls we could have been much better.

Tarrant a 32 year old had to be drafted because no one else was coming thru.
There is just two KPF'S 33 year old Riewoldt and 29 year old Lynch on the entire list. How is that good list management?
We had to go out and get Lynch because quite clearly at the time we only had JR with no one coming thru and it was not viable to play just one Key Forward every week. people are telling me we have got it all right. Please give me a break.
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Good post Mate👍 It seems that drafting talls isn’t a priority for us, and I was just saying that we’ve managed three flags in 5 years, which is more than decent. It appears we try to target mature talls, rather than develop them? Like I said, I agree that we need to draft a KPF or two, but if they don’t, I can live with it as they clearly know what has worked?
FWIW, I actually have very high hopes for young Ryan, and think Collina could be something pretty decent given he actually has played the game as a junior? No guarantees obviously but with his height and mobility, he could be anything. Miller didnt look too out of place in that last game, but it was a nothing contest really, but he did show good traits.
Will be an interesting draft for the first time in many years for me.
 
Moppey said:
What path im not advocating a particular path and haven't.. all i have ever asked for is we take a few extra talls, Take genuine kpp's instead of Half ruckmen Half forward but not quite either types and we take some with better picks than what we have.
Thats not a different path its normal operating procedure for the vast majority of clubs.

since the end of 2009 this is the list of talls including ruckmen we have drafted in the ND I go from 09 as that is where Hardwick took over.

09/ Astbury 33, Griffiths 19 one of those not quite either types who showed promise but ultimately failed.
10/ Derickx 63 ruck.
11/ Elton 26. In the words of the club a ruckman and forward in the mould of Ty Vickery. No wonder he failed just another like Vickery NQE.
12/ McBean 33 another NQE, not quite either type.
13/ ???
14/ McKenzie 77
15/ Broad 67 plays more like a medium been a good player but not really a KPP.
16/ Garthwaite 72
17 CC-J 20 another Not quite either type imo , Balta 25 hooray at last a tall that looks the goods and has put some runs on the board.., Miller 63 already been delisted and now a rookie.
18/ ????
19/ Nyuon 54
20/ Ryan 40 atm looks to be another hedged bet where we have half a ruck and half a forward but looks more like not quite either to date.

Apart from Balta you have to go back to 09 Hardwicks first i wont say season but say draft. to find a decent KPP.
In 12 drafts we have invested miserly in talls with just two top 20 picks and one in the twenties.
In twelve drafts just 13 talls taken and most after pick 40.We are taking them late but few and still expect them to succeed.
Not one tall has become a very good player after pick 33 for us outside of Grimes who was a PSD pick way back in 09 and Broad who was a mature pick at 67.

Im really scratching my head trying to work out what i have got wrong and what above warrants such personal insults and vitriol.
All i have done is state the bleeding obvious.

Just my opinion but when it comes to succession planning especially with the talls we could have been much better.

Tarrant a 32 year old had to be drafted because no one else was coming thru.
There is just two KPF'S 33 year old Riewoldt and 29 year old Lynch on the entire list. How is that good list management?
We had to go out and get Lynch because quite clearly at the time we only had JR with no one coming thru and it was not viable to play just one Key Forward every week. people are telling me we have got it all right. Please give me a break.
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We possibly could have done better with regard to succession planning with our talls but there's a few mitigating circumstances that you need to take into consideration mainly the drafts of 2010-2011-2012 then the high finishes of 2013-2014-2015-2017-2018-2019-2020.

I don't think it's entirely fair either to compare our current recruiting team of those of earlier years, it's probably more pertinent to look at our last 7 drafts.

So:

2014. McKenzie with our 5th and Soldo rookied, trade in Hampson
2015. Broad 3rd, Moore 5th, Chol rookied
2016. Garth 3rd, trade in Nankervis
2017. CCJ 2nd, Balta 3rd, Miller rookied,
2018. None. Lynch via FA
2019. Nyuon rookie
2020. Ryan 1st, Mate Colina rookied

We've tried to develop quite a few talls over the years with a few duds amongst them, then lost CCJ & Chol this year. It's not like we haven't spent our draft capital on acquiring those talls either.

I spose there's something in coddling together a list that has made finals in 7 of the last 8 years and just an added bonus of 3 premierships in 4 years. That success has come at a cost and that is the loss of high draft picks. Maybe the recruiting team just didn't see any value in the talls later in those drafts, I don't know because I'm not in that inner sanctum.

Obviously our KPP depth is thin and bringing in Tarrant in does shore up the backline after losing Astbury who, I'd think, sprung one on the list managers by retiring 2 years early. KPF's are the main problem in the medium term with Jack possibly gone next year and Lynch a couple of years away but I think we'd be a bunch of nuffies to think that there's not a plan in place and the next 2 drafts are the centrepin of that strategy.
 
tigerfan1961 said:
And yet despite not following your path, we’ve won 3 of the last 5 premiership flags? I think I’ll just trust the List Managers and recruiters until their strategy proves a failure.
P.S. I don’t disagree totally that we need more young actual KP players on the list
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Its time this draft to use a good pick on JVR & get Bazzo too. I'm glad Chol and CJ are out. We had too many types exactly the same height. Richo to Riewoldt is amazingly good work by recruiters. Add Lynch and KPFs are sorted for another years. Rance & Dave held down KPD posts for a decade. Balta an amazing selection. 5 flags between them Tarrant not a bad pick up either.
Yeah plenty of misses too.
Be interesting to see where they play Balta.
 

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Morro said:
This guy making it can really shape our spine for the next 7-10 years.
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Miller becoming a B grade KPD means that Balta/Gibcus is freed up. Massive if he makes it.
 
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