Play Nice 46th President of the United States: Joe Biden (1) O Brave New World

[Maggie5]

Link?

It was a news report with McCarthy speaking in the Oval office. I watch USA news live.

Will see if there is a tweet around.

 

[spinynorman]

No at all, if it is used now, can be used again, very dangerous even as a last resort.

I don't think Biden will use it and shouldn't.

When do you think it would be very dangerous?

Realistically, the debt ceiling should be scrapped altogether - they should’ve done it as soon as they could.

Instead we’re going to see social spending cut and people be worse off. It puts the lie to the concept that the populist Republicans are any different on policy than the neoliberals, with tax cuts for the wealthy and work requirements for the exploited still the priority.

 

[GreyCrow]

Who blinks first?

Biden was right when he said the President is blamed for everything so it is up to Biden to step carefully. But I dont think either party wants to send the US and world economies spiralling

 

[GreyCrow]

When do you think it would be very dangerous?

Realistically, the debt ceiling should be scrapped altogether - they should’ve done it as soon as they could.

Instead we’re going to see social spending cut and people be worse off. It puts the lie to the concept that the populist Republicans are any different on policy than the neoliberals, with tax cuts for the wealthy and work requirements for the exploited still the priority.

I dont mind the check and balance of a debt ceiling.

Biden, McCarthy meeting ends with no deal on debt ceiling

Biden and McCarthy could not reach an agreement Monday on how to raise the government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, but vowed to keep talking.

www.reuters.com

"I believe we can still get there," McCarthy said. He is not willing to consider Biden's plan to cut the deficit by raising taxes on the wealthy and closing tax loopholes for the oil and pharmaceutical industries, he said, and is focused on reducing spending in the 2024 federal budget.''

Yet somehow its the Democrats fault

 

[Spearman]

No at all, if it is used now, can be used again, very dangerous even as a last resort.

I don't think Biden will use it and shouldn't.

yes, it can always come back to haunt

some of the tactics the GOP have been using in their recent extremist, spoilers mode were used by the Dems, albeit in less extreme, destructive, obnoxious circumstances. IIRC they were using some tactics to combat GOP obstructionism during the Tea Party thing and McConnell I think it was threatened to use it.

 

[Maggie5]

When do you think it would be very dangerous?

Realistically, the debt ceiling should be scrapped altogether - they should’ve done it as soon as they could.

Instead we’re going to see social spending cut and people be worse off. It puts the lie to the concept that the populist Republicans are any different on policy than the neoliberals, with tax cuts for the wealthy and work requirements for the exploited still the priority.

As Spearman posted, "yes, it can always come back to haunt".

 

[spinynorman]

yes, it can always come back to haunt

some of the tactics the GOP have been using in their recent extremist, spoilers mode were used by the Dems, albeit in less extreme, destructive, obnoxious circumstances. IIRC they were using some tactics to combat GOP obstructionism during the Tea Party thing and McConnell I think it was threatened to use it.

As Spearman posted, "yes, it can always come back to haunt".

That’s sufficiently vague reasoning to preclude doing anything though. Especially given we know that negotiating with the Republicans on this is going to worsen the lives of society’s poorest and empower them to do it again (as it’s become a regular occurrence for Democratic Presidents facing Republican Congresses, empowered by the caving of the time before) or letting them tank the US economy.

I dont mind the check and balance of a debt ceiling.

Biden, McCarthy meeting ends with no deal on debt ceiling

Biden and McCarthy could not reach an agreement Monday on how to raise the government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, but vowed to keep talking.

www.reuters.com

"I believe we can still get there," McCarthy said. He is not willing to consider Biden's plan to cut the deficit by raising taxes on the wealthy and closing tax loopholes for the oil and pharmaceutical industries, he said, and is focused on reducing spending in the 2024 federal budget.''

Yet somehow its the Democrats fault

I also don’t think it could be argued that it’s a worthy tool for checks and balances since Gingrich employed it as a tool to aggressively blackmail Democratic presidents with. And to think it’s going to be used to redistribute wealth downwards after seeing progress in the last three decades is fanciful.

 

[Maggie5]

That’s sufficiently vague reasoning to preclude doing anything though. Especially given we know that negotiating with the Republicans on this is going to worsen the lives of society’s poorest and empower them to do it again (as it’s become a regular occurrence for Democratic Presidents facing Republican Congresses, empowered by the caving of the time before) or letting them tank the US economy.



I also don’t think it could be argued that it’s a worthy tool for checks and balances since Gingrich employed it as a tool to aggressively blackmail Democratic presidents with. And to think it’s going to be used to redistribute wealth downwards after seeing progress in the last three decades is fanciful.

So you really believe the Democrats are weak in not using it?

Stunningly pissweak, even by Democratic standards

You think that the poorest will be better off when the Republicans use it?

It is a dangerous option and better to point out that the republicans are responsible for the majority of debt, it is the Republicans that won't re-instate the tax cuts given to the wealthy individuals and corporations. Sometimes to reduce debt, you need to find income, not cuts and that is all the Republicans are about.

Really spell it out to voters.

 

[spinynorman]

So you really believe the Democrats are weak in not using it?

Huh? I think the Democrats are weak in not using the Fourteenth Amendment to raise it (or having abolished it when they had the opportunity to).

You think that the poorest will be better off when the Republicans use it?

Again, huh? I feel like we're talking across one another here.

The Republicans increased the debt ceiling multiple times under Bush and Trump with minimal partisan fighting (because the Democrats, rightly, won't threaten to blow up the economy to impose austerity).

It is a dangerous option and better to point out that the republicans are responsible for the majority of debt, it is the Republicans that won't re-instate the tax cuts given to the wealthy individuals and corporations. Sometimes to reduce debt, you need to find income, not cuts and that is all the Republicans are about.

Really spell it out to voters.

They've done that, though? But explaining "this is the Republicans' fault" is neither going to help the people whose lives are going to be worse off because of this, nor particularly endear them to you when you've apparently sleepwalked into trading off their dignity and done little to avert the situation everyone could see coming.

 

[Maggie5]

Huh? I think the Democrats are weak in not using the Fourteenth Amendment to raise it (or having abolished it when they had the opportunity to).



Again, huh? I feel like we're talking across one another here.

The Republicans increased the debt ceiling multiple times under Bush and Trump with minimal partisan fighting (because the Democrats, rightly, won't threaten to blow up the economy to impose austerity).



They've done that, though? But explaining "this is the Republicans' fault" is neither going to help the people whose lives are going to be worse off because of this, nor particularly endear them to you when you've apparently sleepwalked into trading off their dignity and done little to avert the situation everyone could see coming.

We weren't talking cross purposes, not sure you were understanding but nevertheless, my fault for engaging with you.

I agree, Democrats are bad at everything, is that better?

 

[spinynorman]

We weren't talking cross purposes, not sure you were understanding but nevertheless, my fault for engaging with you.

At least one of us isn’t understanding the other, yes.

My point is the Democrats shouldn't cave to the Republicans' demands and shouldn't compromise.

Your point to me seems to be that they should compromise because otherwise the Republicans won't if they face a similar crisis. But I'm sceptical they ever would, because I can't imagine the Democrats trying to hold the economy to ransom in so reckless a way.

Have I misunderstood, or is that a fair summary?

I agree, Democrats are bad at everything, is that better?

I think it's fair to say they've lost control of the agenda and of leading the country in the direction that they wish to, and so they need to change up their tactics in terms of combating the Republicans and the right's extreme agenda.

 

[Maggie5]

Joe should take notice of what the Gov of Minnesota has just achieved with a one seat majority in the State Senate. Even some Reubicans voted for it... .

Minnesota governor signs 'One Minnesota Budget' in celebratory moment for Democrats

The so-called "One Minnesota Budget" includes funding for free school meals to kids and free tuition at public colleges for students whose families earn less than $80,000 a year.

www.pbs.org

 

[Spearman]

Joe should take notice of what the Gov of Minnesota has just achieved with a one seat majority in the State Senate. Even some Reubicans voted for it... .

Minnesota governor signs 'One Minnesota Budget' in celebratory moment for Democrats

The so-called "One Minnesota Budget" includes funding for free school meals to kids and free tuition at public colleges for students whose families earn less than $80,000 a year.

www.pbs.org

Go Minnesota, haven't had a lot of good news out there for while.

 

[smy1305]

Joe should take notice of what the Gov of Minnesota has just achieved with a one seat majority in the State Senate. Even some Reubicans voted for it... .

Minnesota governor signs 'One Minnesota Budget' in celebratory moment for Democrats

The so-called "One Minnesota Budget" includes funding for free school meals to kids and free tuition at public colleges for students whose families earn less than $80,000 a year.

www.pbs.org

You can guarantee that a few of those GOP reps in that Minnesota State senate will now receive a friendly ph call from Mr Tiny Hands to reaffirm whose side they are actually on.

 

[Maggie5]

Also for those that think that the Democrats have the majority in the Senate, it isn't technically true.

Sanders(sides with Democrats mostly), King and now Sinema are Independents and Manchin is Democrat in name only.

They are further handicapped by Feinstein who should have retired years ago.

 

[GreyCrow]

They are further handicapped by Feinstein who should have retired years ago.

Its crazy and maddening what is going on there. Feinstein is barely functioning. They wheel her in and wheel her out

But nobody will do anything because the fear is '' when will they come for me''

 

[spinynorman]

Also for those that think that the Democrats have the majority in the Senate, it isn't technically true.

Sanders(sides with Democrats mostly), King and now Sinema are Independents and Manchin is Democrat in name only.

They are further handicapped by Feinstein who should have retired years ago.

Sanders almost never goes with the Republicans over the Democrats in a partisan division (and certainly not against the issues people complain about). King votes as a middle of the road Democrat, his lack of affiliation with the party is due to the quirkiness of Maine.

Manchin and historically Sinema are issues because there’s a lack of consequence held to Democrats for this sort of ill discipline. Even ignoring who challenged them and who supported them in their respective primaries, I refuse to believe a Lyndon Johnson wouldn’t have been able to deal with them.

Feinstein was re-elected by the Democrats to the Senate Judiciary Committee in January. Again, they easily could’ve done something, but to return to pjcrows’ point in the other thread, this is by design.

 

[GreyCrow]

Biden and McCarthy reach in principle agreement to curtail the Debt Ceiling

 

[Satan]

Biden and McCarthy reach in principle agreement to curtail the Debt Ceiling

Trump wont be happy

 

[spinynorman]

Biden and McCarthy reach in principle agreement to curtail the Debt Ceiling

The Republicans - so concerned about debt getting out of control that their agreement increases funding to the military.

And the Democrats of course had no opportunity at any point ever to resolve this problem themselves.

American politics is undoubtedly rife with disingenuous bullshit, but it appears that each debt ceiling crisis is the time it really takes on a life of its own.

 

[Present Not Past]

The US national debt rose $10T in the four years of Donald Trump's Republican presidency.
That's a 30% increase in only four years.
That's diabolical.

 

[GreyCrow]

Trump wont be happy

For a man ready to twiddle his fat thumbs over everything that happens he has remained strangely silent ( well not strange) and Margie is posting fitness videos

 

[GreyCrow]

 

[Mofra]

The US national debt rose $10T in the four years of Donald Trump's Republican presidency.
That's a 30% increase in only four years.
That's diabolical.

Massive tax cuts for billionaires - you have to seriously vote against your own interests to still support Trump policies

 

[Festerz]

Massive tax cuts for billionaires - you have to seriously vote against your own interests to still support Trump policies

That's been the story of republican voters for the past three decades at least - the poorly educated, poorly paid underclass of millions who voted for George W (twice) and Trump and who happily support the idea that any form of universal health care or government support program is liberal anti-American BS.

But don't be fooled by the idea that these working poor who work in the manufacturing and service industries of middle America are into some sort of self flagellation exercise when they visit the ballot box every four years. Nope - these God fearing folks actually believe the myth of America being the greatest country on earth and who have swallowed the lie of 'personal responsibility' to the point where they actually believe the America dream that if they work hard enough and long enough they too can be a multi-millionaire like old mate Donald.

They're making America Great again buddy - don't ya get it? And the woke latte sipping EV driving homo loving liberals are the real reason why they're a month late in their truck payments.