Player Watch #47: Ivan Soldo

[one eyedtiger]

Nank will walk back in as first ruck...and Chol to back up...

I agree, if Nank is able to pick up where he left off then no doubt he will come straight in. Soldo is a solid ruck-man, works hard and does the basics right. He is still learning and developing given his relatively late introduction to AFL and he's doing well. I think Nank will be given a crack when he's fit, but if he's a little slow to find he's feet like last year coming back from injury then he might find himself out of the side again. Nank reminded us pre-injury (this year) what he can do, he was very very good.

I agree with those saying the days of Soldo/Nank as the 2 rucks are over. It clearly has to be Chol no.2, as he is a threat up forward and far more agile around the ground. Barring injury/massive drop in form I doubt we'll see the Soldo/Nank combo again.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Maybe...
But Soldo avoids pack marks...too limited in output...

Avoids them? He's at practically every pack marking situation he's anywhere near when he's on the ground.

On occasion, opposition coaches have tried to exploit him with get-out kicks up the line to his opponent and it's failed every time.

When pack mark's are clunked they hurt the oppo that's a fact...

Just to further illustrate the shift I'm talking about, I caught a piece of the interview between Hodgey and Charlie Cameron before I headed out tonight. As we all know, Fagan is one of the few coaches these days who puts entertaining football front and centre of his game plan and Charlie is a terrific pack mark for his size (or any size on his day).

To paraphrase him, he said he gets absolutely hauled over the coals by the coaching staff every single time he flies for a pack mark. It will be the first thing about his game they'll take him to task about.

That has happened because football is so heavily analysed these days coaches know for certain that flying for a pack mark has a low percentage return overall. If you're not upright and ready to contest after the ball hits the deck while your opponent is, you've more than likely given them an extra player around the ball, or in Charlie's case, a fast opposition rebound out of defense.

Soldo's having the mantra 'bring the ball to ground and try to influence the next contest' drilled into him over and over again and that's what he does.

'Just go for your marks' is not on the menu anymore, with an increasingly tiny few exceptions, more defenders like Howe than anywhere/anyone else.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Avoids them? He's at practically every pack marking situation he's anywhere near when he's on the ground.

On occasion, opposition coaches have tried to exploit him with get-out kicks up the line to his opponent and it's failed every time.




Just to further illustrate the shift I'm talking about, I caught a piece of the interview between Hodgey and Charlie Cameron before I headed out tonight. As we all know, Fagan is one of the few coaches these days who puts entertaining football front and centre of his game plan and Charlie is a terrific pack mark for his size (or any size on his day).

To paraphrase him, he said he gets absolutely hauled over the coals by the coaching staff every single time he flies for a pack mark. It will be the first thing about his game they'll take him to task about.

That has happened because football is so heavily analysed these days coaches know for certain that flying for a pack mark has a low percentage return overall. If you're not upright and ready to contest after the ball hits the deck while your opponent is, you've more than likely given them an extra player around the ball, or in Charlie's case, a fast opposition rebound out of defense.

Soldo's having the mantra 'bring the ball to ground and try to influence the next contest' drilled into him over and over again and that's what he does.

'Just go for your marks' is not on the menu anymore, with an increasingly tiny few exceptions, more defenders like Howe than anywhere/anyone else.

Cameron v Soldo in regards to pack Mark's...
Soldo not CC ought to be dragged over the coals for not crashing packs and taking Mark's...big diff in size and strategy...

 

[Rayzorwire]

Cameron v Soldo in regards to pack Mark's...
Soldo not CC ought to be dragged over the coals for not crashing packs and taking Mark's...big diff in size and strategy...

I made zero attempt to make it a Cameron V Soldo equation, that's all down to your misinterpretation of what I wrote.

I was highlighting the way the game and coaches' instructions to players have changed. If you choose to find fault with players for obeying the instructions of their coaching staff and refuse to acknowledge or see with your own eyes how much the game has changed in this regard, that's up to you.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I made zero attempt to make it a Cameron V Soldo equation, that's all down to your misinterpretation of what I wrote.

I was highlighting the way the game and coaches' instructions to players have changed. If you choose to find fault with players for obeying the instructions of their coaching staff and refuse to acknowledge or see with your own eyes how much the game has changed in this regard, that's up to you.

Well I disagree with your un-misinterpreted highlight...Soldo needs to take some big marks in a game just like Cholly does or Nank/CCJ will take his place...

 

[tora tora tora]

Maybe...
But Soldo avoids pack marks...too limited in output...

If Nank was fit I'd play him no doubt, he's my first choice. (he's 3~5 weeks away) I think about what Soldo's opponent rucks are doing. He's breaking even against in form ruckmen. Soldo vs Goldstein. Kept Goldy very quiet. Ditto English last week & I thought he broke even againts Jacobs although stat-wise Soldo won hands down. Bears are using McInernay as their sole ruck. I'd leave Soldo in for one more week & then pick CJ & to visit SA. (I'll load up on Port)
Nank took quite a while to find form on his return from injury last year.
But would be great to see CJ get some games at some point.

 

[Bojangles17]

Nank will walk back in as first ruck...and Chol to back up...

Maybe , a bit would depend who opponent was too I think .

 

[sregit]

Well I disagree with your un-misinterpreted highlight...Soldo needs to take some big marks in a game just like Cholly does or Nank/CCJ will take his place...

You're talking rubbish. Nankervis could take his place but CCJ is not even close. CCJ was hammered in the ruck contest in his one senior game and is still a year or so from being anywhere near good enough in the ruck contests.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Avoids them? He's at practically every pack marking situation he's anywhere near when he's on the ground.

On occasion, opposition coaches have tried to exploit him with get-out kicks up the line to his opponent and it's failed every time.




Just to further illustrate the shift I'm talking about, I caught a piece of the interview between Hodgey and Charlie Cameron before I headed out tonight. As we all know, Fagan is one of the few coaches these days who puts entertaining football front and centre of his game plan and Charlie is a terrific pack mark for his size (or any size on his day).

To paraphrase him, he said he gets absolutely hauled over the coals by the coaching staff every single time he flies for a pack mark. It will be the first thing about his game they'll take him to task about.

That has happened because football is so heavily analysed these days coaches know for certain that flying for a pack mark has a low percentage return overall. If you're not upright and ready to contest after the ball hits the deck while your opponent is, you've more than likely given them an extra player around the ball, or in Charlie's case, a fast opposition rebound out of defense.

Soldo's having the mantra 'bring the ball to ground and try to influence the next contest' drilled into him over and over again and that's what he does.

'Just go for your marks' is not on the menu anymore, with an increasingly tiny few exceptions, more defenders like Howe than anywhere/anyone else.

Agree. Pack marks are the goal where you have no decent option and if you get the right match up you can kick to a pack and expect the ball to come to ground in a good spot for your team. Great option if you can get it top of the goal square with Lynch, Jack, Chol, Soldo holding the space (in order of likelihood of taking the mark). Crumbers set up and you can lock the ball in. Actually taking the mark is nice, but not the actual expectation. Bringing the ball to ground in a dangerous spot that is easily defended is the expectation.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

You're talking rubbish. Nankervis could take his place but CCJ is not even close. CCJ was hammered in the ruck contest in his one senior game and is still a year or so from being anywhere near good enough in the ruck contests.

Oh gee maybe CCJ isn't ready yet who would have thought that?!?!?...maybe he needs a brace of games to show his stuff...hmmm according to you he got hammered in one senior game a year ago...well maybe it's time for CCJ to step up again!
Nank and Chol for me...
Oh and PS feck orff with the personal remarks, it's an open forum and I'll post what I like without being policed by you as to what is and isn't rubbish!

 

[sregit]

Oh gee maybe CCJ isn't ready yet who would have thought that?!?!?...maybe he needs a brace of games to show his stuff...hmmm according to you he got hammered in one senior game a year ago...well maybe it's time for CCJ to step up again!
Nank and Chol for me...
Oh and PS feck orff with the personal remarks, it's an open forum and I'll post what I like without being policed by you as to what is and isn't rubbish!

Okay precious. I'm not policing you. If CCJ was ready the coaching panel would have selected him to play. They haven't and I'll back their assessment of his readiness to do the job.

 

[tora tora tora]

Oh gee maybe CCJ isn't ready yet who would have thought that?!?!?...maybe he needs a brace of games to show his stuff...hmmm according to you he got hammered in one senior game a year ago...well maybe it's time for CCJ to step up again!
Nank and Chol for me...
Oh and PS feck orff with the personal remarks, it's an open forum and I'll post what I like without being policed by you as to what is and isn't rubbish!

We all have players we think should be playing. I'm in the Ross over Graham camp and the anyone over Rioli camp so I'm a happy camper. I thought CJ would be playing ahead of Chol. But Chol has been a revelation. Chol is inexperienced and his form may drop off.
Your preferred ruck combo is Nank and chol. When are you going to get games into CJ?

 

[TJTIGER]

CCJ has stress fractures in the foot we'll have to wait a little longer to see him....

 

[Rayzorwire]

Agree. Pack marks are the goal where you have no decent option and if you get the right match up you can kick to a pack and expect the ball to come to ground in a good spot for your team. Great option if you can get it top of the goal square with Lynch, Jack, Chol, Soldo holding the space (in order of likelihood of taking the mark). Crumbers set up and you can lock the ball in. Actually taking the mark is nice, but not the actual expectation. Bringing the ball to ground in a dangerous spot that is easily defended is the expectation.

Yep, kicking to a pack is a solid tactical option for the clubs with the personnel to take advantage of it.

Besides a contested pack mark you fly for being a low-percentage chance of coming off, it dramatically increases the chances of injury. Even if it's only getting winded/bruised/minor head knock etc., it can really impact on the team that game and for weeks after.

With Nank sidelined for an extended period, the last thing we want is Soldo not being able to play at maximum capacity for ruck contests in all four quarters or going down for weeks because he's been running around like a cavalier idiot flying for marks and aerially 'crashing packs.'

He's a smart bloke and playing to instruction. Our premiership chances take a massive nosedive if he goes down.

CCJ has stress fractures in the foot we'll have to wait a little longer to see him....

That's lousy news, things really haven't gone his way so far.

If there's a silver lining it might be that we hold onto him, you'd suspect a few clubs will be trying to shake one of our rucks loose, Soldo is a perfect fit for GWS for starters.

 

[Dr Tigris]

CCJ has stress fractures in the foot we'll have to wait a little longer to see him....

Sucks totally. I was looking forward to him getting some game time with Jack/Tom being rested in one of the 4/5 days breaks. Probably means we're more likley to keep him. But

 

[Dr Tigris]

Yep, kicking to a pack is a solid tactical option for the clubs with the personnel to take advantage of it.

Besides a contested pack mark you fly for being a low-percentage chance of coming off, it dramatically increases the chances of injury. Even if it's only getting winded/bruised/minor head knock etc., it can really impact on the team that game and for weeks after.

With Nank sidelined for an extended period, the last thing we want is Soldo not being able to play at maximum capacity for ruck contests in all four quarters or going down for weeks because he's been running around like a cavalier idiot flying for marks and aerially 'crashing packs.'

He's a smart bloke and playing to instruction. Our premiership chances take a massive nosedive if he goes down.




That's lousy news, things really haven't gone his way so far.

If there's a silver lining it might be that we hold onto him, you'd suspect a few clubs will be trying to shake one of our rucks loose, Soldo is a perfect fit for GWS for starters.

Soldo as a Canberra boy would fit the home town side. And his size and style would work for them. But hopefully that he learnt his footy at Tigerland, and has a premiership with us is enough to keep him.

He's young enough to cover our ruck stocks until the list sizes work themselves out and we replace the 30+ year old him with a kid.

 

[SweetD]

You're talking rubbish. Nankervis could take his place but CCJ is not even close. CCJ was hammered in the ruck contest in his one senior game and is still a year or so from being anywhere near good enough in the ruck contests.

I don't understand where the lovesesh for CCJ is coming from, especially when we haven't even had VFL this year, it's like everyone just decided he was AFL standard randomly.

 

[Marcel Proust]

I don't understand where the lovesesh for CCJ is coming from, especially when we haven't even had VFL this year, it's like everyone just decided he was AFL standard randomly.

he had a good grand final and looks a legit forward option

that said soldo is doing well. he adds geninue intimdation factor. richmond not a little side anymore with Soldo, Lynch, Chol, Astbury? Nank? Balta etc.

 

[SweetD]

he had a good grand final and looks a legit forward option

that said soldo is doing well. he adds geninue intimdation factor. richmond not a little side anymore with Soldo, Lynch, Chol, Astbury? Nank? Balta etc.

Yeah don't get me wrong, I see potential in him, but people here are freaking out that this 1 gamer isn't playing over more experienced players. People freaking out he'll leave etc etc

 

[Morro]

One thing with Soldo is he rarely gets his pants pulled down. Continually coming up against in form and more reputable rucks and nullifying them almost every time.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Soldo as a Canberra boy would fit the home town side. And his size and style would work for them. But hopefully that he learnt his footy at Tigerland, and has a premiership with us is enough to keep him.

He's young enough to cover our ruck stocks until the list sizes work themselves out and we replace the 30+ year old him with a kid.

Yeah, Soldo will be a desired commodity for the trade period with a handful of clubs I'd expect, the NSW ones being top of the list. He's had virtually no shelter from a senior ruck while building a very solid record for this stage of his career, is running out games well already and he's yet to have an injury concern of note. All things clubs would want to tick off before offering him the #1 slot, decent money and a long, secure contract.

I'd be gutted to see him go, but if Nank comes back in a couple of weeks as seems likely and he struggles to get games again (we will keep playing Chol I suspect), then another club offers him decent coin and the guaranteed #1 slot for years to come, he'd have to seriously entertain the idea.

He's the last one of the four viable rucks I would want to lose. Be surprised if our hand doesn't get forced with at least one of them and we have to renegotiate contract $ and terms with another.

 

[db26]

No way in the world we can loose him put alot of developing in him.Genuine big ruck tall we have struggled to have on our side and list.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Yeah, Soldo will be a desired commodity for the trade period with a handful of clubs I'd expect, the NSW ones being top of the list. He's had virtually no shelter from a senior ruck while building a very solid record for this stage of his career, is running out games well already and he's yet to have an injury concern of note. All things clubs would want to tick off before offering him the #1 slot, decent money and a long, secure contract.

I'd be gutted to see him go, but if Nank comes back in a couple of weeks as seems likely and he struggles to get games again (we will keep playing Chol I suspect), then another club offers him decent coin and the guaranteed #1 slot for years to come, he'd have to seriously entertain the idea.

He's the last one of the four viable rucks I would want to lose. Be surprised if our hand doesn't get forced with at least one of them and we have to renegotiate contract $ and terms with another.

I feel dirty. If we had to lose one of our rucks I'd probably go for Nank right now. Simply because of his injuries. He's not a great tap ruck, but great around the ground and such a good guy to have on the team. Soldo is a bit he reverse, but is getting better around the ground. Both of them love the hard stuff. So good times.

Don't know about CCJ, but he sounds more Foward than ruck. There will be opportunities for him soonish I think. We'll see.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I feel dirty. If we had to lose one of our rucks I'd probably go for Nank right now. Simply because of his injuries. He's not a great tap ruck, but great around the ground and such a good guy to have on the team. Soldo is a bit he reverse, but is getting better around the ground. Both of them love the hard stuff. So good times.

Don't know about CCJ, but he sounds more Foward than ruck. There will be opportunities for him soonish I think. We'll see.

Hopefully we lock Soldo up in a better contract before trade period, he's earned it, but neither he or Nank will be very keen to play 2nd fiddle next year I suspect. Chol's form really puts the cat amongst the pigeons because he's clearly going to be a more dangerous forward than either, which will probably also apply to CCJ down the track. That means we probably can't really sell either Soldo or Nank a future based around the two of them both getting games.

Trouble on trading Nank instead is I strongly suspect there would be way more interest in Soldo than Nank because of his injury cloud. None of the desperate sides will want to trade in another ruck who on recent record is likely to sit out a chunk of the season. And of course, at his absolute best he's still our #1 option at this point.

It's a hell of a situation to be in...almost no right choices really.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Reckon CCJ traded solves our ruck issues...