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Adelaide Hawk

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Terrific work in here Kurve 👍🏻 :)
It really is such a bizzare story.

Someone said they had sympathy for the perp earlier because of some hardships, but what’s coming out is a cold, calculating deceitful man who held a little girl for 17 days while all around him people were beside themselves with distress….indeed the whole country was distressed. This has got nothing to do with a difficult life and everything to do with plain evil. His outbursts in court are violent and if he’s threatening to come after photographers when he gets out how the hell are Cleo and her family ever going to feel safe :(

If he gets a soft touch on this case a lot of people are going to be very angry.
I’ll say it again… fu** him.
Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.
 

Collie_wobbles

Senior List
Oct 25, 2021
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Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.
So well said and yes I totally agree our justice system needs a huge overhaul with more tougher penalties. Sometimes they get off on lenient sentences due to the fact there is no where to place them, the jails are too full. It's time our government focus on building more prison's and amend the law so criminals are sentenced to what they truly deserve for the crime they have committed.
 

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BFew

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One odd thing about the picture of him sitting in the car with the dolls.

That looks like it is taken with him in the passenger seat rather than the drivers seat.
Could it have been a selfie taken in a different country where they drive on the other side of the road?

Or was he just trying to fool ppl into thinking he was a passenger, by appearing to be in the passengers seat, because he did not have a registered car or even a drivers licence ?
 

BFew

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It's time our government focus on building more prison's and amend the law so criminals are sentenced to what they truly deserve for the crime they have committed.
If it's anything like virus/disease human quarantine solutions, and hospitalisation in the home, the push will probably be for more home based detention solutions using technology to manage things for a whole lot of criminals that would have previously have either been in a jail or not locked up at all.
 

MsTeschmacher

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Sep 29, 2020
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Could it have been a selfie taken in a different country where they drive on the other side of the road?

Or was he just trying to fool ppl into thinking he was a passenger, by appearing to be in the passengers seat, because he did not have a registered car or even a drivers licence ?
Hasn't rotated the selfie camera setting so looks like he's the passenger instead of the driver.
 

PetterdHoisted

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Apr 27, 2014
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Yes, I tend to agree. Empathy and understanding are valuable traits to possess, but I grew up in a world where there was far greater expectation placed on people to do the right thing. Do the crime, you did the time.

Far too much desire to understand what makes a person behave the way they do when performing anti-social acts. "Why did this man do what he did, was he mistreated as a child, etc?". I'm sorry, but I don't care. He has placed two parents, not to mention an entire community under great stress, and nobody knows if, or how much, this will impact subconsciously on Cleo in her formative years.

As a society, IMHO we are way too soft on crime, a major contributing factor in recidivism. Penalties are way too often not meeting the severity of the crime. It seems we are always way too concerned about the perpetrator. Maybe I'm hard, but I have no sympathy whatsoever. What he did was wrong, and if he doesn't know that already, then he has to learn the hard way.

In my employment, I had cause to spend considerable time in courts of law. What used to fill my mouth with bile was seeing genuine scum turning up to court shaved, washed and in suits, looking as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. And to see the slaps on wrists and bags of lollies handed out as punishment was even more distasteful. Start handing out tougher penalties and I promise you, crime would decrease. The criminal element see soft penalties as low risk and they take their chance.

Anyway, rant over. It's just something I feel very strongly about.
I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.
 

darklake

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Having 2 four year old girls at the moment, it absolutely tugs at the heart strings.
I cannot even imagine what Chloe went through, even if things weren’t of a sexual nature (and I hope like hell they weren’t) no one of that age should have to go through anything like that.
The girl's name is CLEO. NOT Chloe.
 

Collie_wobbles

Senior List
Oct 25, 2021
190
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I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.
I started looking at the Facebook trail again last night and the more you look the more you find. I just can't work out how he managed to maintain so many, I'm flat out trying to keep up with this thread at time's...he sure isn't short of a quid and certainly maintained them all so well...I wonder if he was writing an instruction manual each time he created a new profile
 

Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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I agree on soft sentencing...and lenient bail omg...dont know how some magistrates sleep at night sometimes.

but the perp in this case, I mean this guy is mentally ill, way beyond the current usage of 'mental health issues'.

He is nowhere near a normal functioning adult, and pretty obviously from his online presence, lives in a delusional fantasy world.

Can you see the state being able to demonstrate that he is culpable for his actions?

The Facebook sleuths on here alone have dug up enough for the Defence's psych report imo.
Collecting dolls does nothing to support a defence of insanity - mental impairment or diminished responsibility. In fact if what we've seen put forward as his doll collection, where there's a place for everything in a perfect arrangement, it won't help one bit.

I've been right over this and at this stage, I can't see where a defence might be raised. These weren't the actions of a man who didn't know what he was doing was wrong without the ability to plan and prepare.

Here's some reading anyway, I think this is up to date but even if it's since been tweaked or not followed through on all recommendations, it probably won't make much difference. It provides a good understanding.

 

Lions777

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Oct 20, 2021
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Isn’t the insanity defence a little of a stretch, don’t you need to be able to prove psychosis at the time the offence was committed? A would-be child abductor I think in Australia actually got a 4 year jail sentence because he was in a psychosis, he tried to pull the child from the dads arms.
 

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Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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Investigators and forensics are back at the house.

Police forensic investigators are expected to spend at least the next week, if not longer, at the Carnarvon house where four-year-old Cleo Smith was found. It is understood they will remain in the town for the next three weeks as the investigation continues.

 

deanc

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Collecting dolls does nothing to support a defence of insanity - mental impairment or diminished responsibility. In fact if what we've seen put forward as his doll collection, where there's a place for everything in a perfect arrangement, it won't help one bit.

I've been right over this and at this stage, I can't see where a defence might be raised. These weren't the actions of a man who didn't know what he was doing was wrong without the ability to plan and prepare.

Here's some reading anyway, I think this is up to date but even if it's since been tweaked or not followed through on all recommendations, it probably won't make much difference. It provides a good understanding.

Strictly legal - opinion.

I suspect the small amount of charges the police have laid thus far on the alleged perpetrator, would of been on the advice of the public prosecutor in accordance with the irrefutable evidence the police have to date - specifically in relation to the perpetrator's mental ability to understand the charges with little chance for deniability;
"Sir, did you remove Cleo Smith from the tent?" Yes. "Did you seek permission from her parents to do so". No. = child stealing.

The 2nd charge, not being made public for now, 'I suspect' is either false imprisonment or deprivation of liberty. But until there is clear evidence from Cleo's testimony, which may or not be admissible in court, legally speaking, neither of these charges can or should be assumed.

From a general perspective it's obvious and plausible that the perpetrator held this child captive in an environment conducive to physical and mental endangerment, but/but - is there actually any evidence she was physically harmed, restrained or threatened in any way..?
While clearly Cleo was not with him voluntarily, as much as we don't want to admit/accept this, Terry Kelly's legal defense may well argue this point..
 
Last edited:

Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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I can't get into this as behind a paywall but someone might in the next day or so. It looks interesting.

Dangerous descent into make-believe
Officers from the WA Department of Justice’s Special Operations Group are escorting Terry Kelly to a maximum security facility.

 

RobbieGray17

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 19, 2007
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Strictly legal - opinion.

I suspect the small amount of charges the police have laid thus far on our alleged perpetrator, would of been on the advice of the public prosecutor in accordance with the irrefutable evidence the police have to date - specifically in relation to the perpetrator's mental ability to understand the charges with little chance for deniability;
"Sir, did you remove Cleo Smith from the tent?" Yes. "Did you seek permission from her parents to do so". No. = child stealing.

The 2nd charge, not being made public for now, 'I suspect' is either false imprisonment or deprivation of liberty. But until there is clear evidence from Cleo's testimony, which may or not be admissible in court, legally speaking, neither of these charges can or should be assumed.

From a general perspective it's obvious and plausible that the perpetrator held this child captive in an environment conducive to physical and mental endangerment, but/but - is there actually any evidence she was physically harmed, restrained or threatened in any way..?
While clearly Cleo was not with him voluntarily, as much as we don't want to admit/accept this, Terry Kelly's legal defense may well argue this point..
Will get off very lightly. Be sure of that.
 

RobbieGray17

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isn
One odd thing about the picture of him sitting in the car with the dolls.

That looks like it is taken with him in the passenger seat rather than the drivers seat.

Does that suggest that someone else was driving him around on these doll trips? If so - who?

I really apologise the photo also has Cleo in it - I couldn't find one with just him in the car.

View attachment 1275119
isn't a selfie mirrored?
 

RobbieGray17

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That was one of the scariest, true to life movies I've ever seen. I won't spoiler it but how was the ending?! I was crying.

I don't know about you but I knew the perp the moment they introduced them. A few earlier clues lead to that point. The rest were just red herrings.

Jackman's acting in the bathroom was ******* scary. The other guy in an interview said he was terrified during the scene because it was on one take and improvised.

So glad I didn't watch the trailer. You have less idea of what's going to happen, or what to expect.
 
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