Player Watch #5: Brandon Ellis

TigerImposter

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Yes I watch 95% of our home games live at the ground. I don’t buy into the he has nothing to kick to, if you move the ball on quickly the play opens up and players move when you do, unfortunately Brando NEVER has the balls to do this, instead slows it up and takes the conservative option every time.
Why would you prop and stop if you’re in the open space? An elite runner like Ellis would surely get on his bike and run if there’s no one upfield to kick to.
His new annoying attribute is the chip kicks less than 10m away to a player surrounded in traffic. It’s backfired at least four times in the last two weeks.
He could actually be a real weapon if he had an iota of awareness and some run and carry in his game, but since he props and stops and chips and hospital HB he undoes most of his good work in finding space.
A name that hasn’t been mentioned on here is Pommie English who can find and create space and set up players up field just by taking a simple bounce or a side step or even just by lowering the eyes. He’s always on the move bc he knows if you hesitate you’re lost. It’s natural instinct and flare which Ellis has never had from his junior days bc he never had it. He’s done remarkably well to get to where he is , but the talent is now ready to engulf him.
 

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mopsy

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If Ellis went backwards and sideways as much people claim he wouldn't be averaging nearly 300m gained per game. Guys like Cotchin Martin Prestia Lambert Edwards have a greater impact because we see them delivering the ball inside 50 resulting in a score so that sticks in the memory. As I've mentioned a number of times Ellis' role in the side is to get the ball into the hands of these guys so that they can be damaging.

I'm not comparing Ellis to these guys when I mention them in this thread, I'm trying to get across that without a role player like Ellis in the side these guys ability to have the impact they do in taking the game on wouldn't be as great, because they'd be forced to be down where Ellis is in D50 getting the ball off of our defenders instead of running ahead of the play to hurt the opposition.


Don't think I've seen anyone suggest that.


The thing with Ellis is that his dinky little kicks aren't to pick up the 1-2, what they are for is to get the ball into the hands of our more attacking midfielders. Time and again I've tried to explain that Ellis isn't the attacking outside winger like a Whitfield Gaff Smith are.

I often wonder if those that call him a momentum killer notice how often his 'momentum killing' moments are usually because he has got the ball in space on the open side of the ground but those up the ground haven't quite got across to provide the next option. So rather than banging the ball on his boot and turning the ball over he does that circle and then spots up a safer shorter option to ensure that we do maintain possession rather than watching the opposition score easily because all our guys were caught out of position, something that happened quite regularly back in 2016.


Ironic post is ironic


Do those who call him a momentum killer watch the game live at the ground or are they sitting on the couch? I ask this because as I mentioned above, a lot of times when Brandon does hold up play, a quick look down the ground shows that there was no real viable option to go to hence the slow down rather than turning it over. On TV you don't really see what was on down the ground, instead you just see Brandon running a half circle to buy him some time for an option to present.

100% agree with this


Those stats were where he rated in yesterdays game, the one where 2-3 posters insist that he was no good and had a poor game with minimal impact.


Well thought out post which pretty much sums up where Ellis is at. At present he is the preferred option in his role, but at the start of the 2020 season he may not be if Naish/Turner/Stack/Bolton can build a tank that allows them to gut run 13-15km week in and week out for 20-25 games a season.
So now its the players up the ground who are at fault. Theres always an excuse and there is always a reason why, but funnily it seems for some Brandon is not the reason and its never his fault.

And i will say again what bunkum that his role is purely defensive and he is not instructed to take the game on. you really do make it up as you go.
When was it you were priviledged to the coaching staff and their instructions to players.You make a statement and then peddle it as fact when in truth it is mere conjecture.

The point about gaff was he does both the defensive running getting back creating an option linking up dishing off to another runner but he also does the offensive part as well.
ive never heard such rubbish in all my life the club dont want a well rounded winger who does what every other winger does no they want a bloke whose job it is not to run with the ball but give it to others who will. Can you hear yourself it is utter utter nonsense.
Now we cop its the blokes up the ground, we cop no he doesnt stop and prop as much as people make out we even get a spurious stat to back up what you say. The last time i looked just 5 or 6 kicks up the line to a contest will get you 300mtres gained yet he averages 22 disposals for that.

imo this is nothing more than trolling. Imo you should be banned from the thread because all you are doing is baiting posters with copious amounts of disingenuity and innuendo.

If you seriously believe what you are posting then i for one am going to stay well clear of you and id suggest others should do the same.
 

Sol23

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Why do some people use so many of what I call 'complete descriptives' as fact? It's rarely all or nothing. Footy is not like that. Sorry Sol, not picking on you specifically, but so often we have to read these UNDERLINED statements, and for me at least, it debases the claim straight away. As you were....:(
Sorry mate but your just getting picky because you don’t agree with my opinion on Brandon.
 

Sol23

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Why would you prop and stop if you’re in the open space? An elite runner like Ellis would surely get on his bike and run if there’s no one upfield to kick to.
His new annoying attribute is the chip kicks less than 10m away to a player surrounded in traffic. It’s backfired at least four times in the last two weeks.
He could actually be a real weapon if he had an iota of awareness and some run and carry in his game, but since he props and stops and chips and hospital HB he undoes most of his good work in finding space.
A name that hasn’t been mentioned on here is Pommie English who can find and create space and set up players up field just by taking a simple bounce or a side step or even just by lowering the eyes. He’s always on the move bc he knows if you hesitate you’re lost. It’s natural instinct and flare which Ellis has never had from his junior days bc he never had it. He’s done remarkably well to get to where he is , but the talent is now ready to engulf him.
Yeah agree I’d rather I creative kick to try and make the play and open the ground up. I’m over Brandons stupid little chip sideways that stops momentum or even worse results in a turnover. As you pointed out he doesn’t have one bit of flare in his game and you can’t teach that. It’s only a matter of time before our young talent sail past him and take his spot.
 

_RT_

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Sorry misread your post. But it seems to me you are making excuses for his lack of attack. All players whether they be attacking backmen or defensive wingers should also stream forward when given the chance. He can do it, and when he does he can kick a good goal. He hit up Lynch on the weekend nicely. I just wish he would do it more often, transition. Broad, Houli and Vlaustin do it from the back half all the time.
There was a comment earlier that Ellis took the defensive roll/side and MacIntosh the fat side. But when the ball is switched, Ellis has the fat side. He could exploit that more, especially given his running ability as he is a better player when he does it.
I understand how it seems like excuse making but I'm just trying to explain his role in as simple terms as possible. We've played Ellis as an attacking winger, back in the 2014-2016 seasons where he'd run and take the game on. But now we have better attacking options up the ground that they prefer to have delivering the ball into 50 than him. So they are using him in a role that better serves his strength in his gut running but takes away putting him in positions he isn't comfortable i.e in traffic around the middle of the ground.

So now its the players up the ground who are at fault. Theres always an excuse and there is always a reason why, but funnily it seems for some Brandon is not the reason and its never his fault.
If he gets the ball on the wing and there is an opposition players sitting loose 70m down the ground what should he do then?

Does he just run his 15-20m then kick it straight to them or does he stop and prop and pick out a teammate 20-30m away in a better position which maintains possession and allows others to also get into better positions?

And i will say again what bunkum that his role is purely defensive and he is not instructed to take the game on. you really do make it up as you go.
When was it you were priviledged to the coaching staff and their instructions to players.You make a statement and then peddle it as fact when in truth it is mere conjecture.
Never claimed to have had access to the coaches instructions but someone who has pretty good access to the inner sanctum in Kiwi Tiger has backed up my assessment of what Ellis' role is, but I guess ignorance is bliss

The point about gaff was he does both the defensive running getting back creating an option linking up dishing off to another runner but he also does the offensive part as well.
ive never heard such rubbish in all my life the club dont want a well rounded winger who does what every other winger does no they want a bloke whose job it is not to run with the ball but give it to others who will. Can you hear yourself it is utter utter nonsense.
Again, we don't need Ellis to be an attacking winger like Gaff is. We have more damaging options like Martin Cotchin Edwards Houli Short who all average over 350m gained per game. They are the blokes you want taking the game on wouldn't you agree?

Now we cop its the blokes up the ground, we cop no he doesnt stop and prop as much as people make out we even get a spurious stat to back up what you say. The last time i looked just 5 or 6 kicks up the line to a contest will get you 300mtres gained yet he averages 22 disposals for that.

imo this is nothing more than trolling. Imo you should be banned from the thread because all you are doing is baiting posters with copious amounts of disingenuity and innuendo.

If you seriously believe what you are posting then i for one am going to stay well clear of you and id suggest others should do the same.
Ah so that's what it is, Ellis goes backwards and sideways 16 times a game and then to gets his metres gained up he bangs the ball up the line half a dozen times to get his 300m gained.

Said it before and I'll say it again, not my fault if you can't understand a valid explanation of what Ellis' role is because it doesn't fit your opinion of him. As for trolling, well you're a known troll who was once booted from this board for repeated trolling so I guess you're talking from experience when it comes to labelling someone else a troll.
 

mopsy

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I understand how it seems like excuse making but I'm just trying to explain his role in as simple terms as possible. We've played Ellis as an attacking winger, back in the 2014-2016 seasons where he'd run and take the game on. But now we have better attacking options up the ground that they prefer to have delivering the ball into 50 than him. So they are using him in a role that better serves his strength in his gut running but takes away putting him in positions he isn't comfortable i.e in traffic around the middle of the ground.


If he gets the ball on the wing and there is an opposition players sitting loose 70m down the ground what should he do then?

Does he just run his 15-20m then kick it straight to them or does he stop and prop and pick out a teammate 20-30m away in a better position which maintains possession and allows others to also get into better positions?


Never claimed to have had access to the coaches instructions but someone who has pretty good access to the inner sanctum in Kiwi Tiger has backed up my assessment of what Ellis' role is, but I guess ignorance is bliss


Again, we don't need Ellis to be an attacking winger like Gaff is. We have more damaging options like Martin Cotchin Edwards Houli Short who all average over 350m gained per game. They are the blokes you want taking the game on wouldn't you agree?


Ah so that's what it is, Ellis goes backwards and sideways 16 times a game and then to gets his metres gained up he bangs the ball up the line half a dozen times to get his 300m gained.

Said it before and I'll say it again, not my fault if you can't understand a valid explanation of what Ellis' role is because it doesn't fit your opinion of him. As for trolling, well you're a known troll who was once booted from this board for repeated trolling so I guess you're talking from experience when it comes to labelling someone else a troll.
No its your explanation of what Ellis role is to fit in with the myriad amount of excuses you make up for him. and most disagree with you.Just because you say it doesnt make you right.I dont need your explanation of his role because imo you are implicitly wrong.

Just for you Ellis averages 13.6 metres gained per possesion.give or take. But he doesnt stop prop go back wards or sideways can you hear yourself.
You refuse to acknowlede it even when it slaps you in the face.Apparently he doesnt give off hospital handpasses and he never takes a short step. Apparemtly the club has never dropped him either for these things.

Finally Jack Ross shows just how easily he can be replaced. an 18 yr old coming off an injury and half a game is already a mile in front and can play wing providing a well rounded role of both defense and attack.

As for being banned yep it happened but not for trolling.So go ahead have another shot.Im not sure what my being banned has to do with anything about Ellis but hey that just shows how low your prepared to stoop.
You go out of your way to be deliberatly vague and disingenuous which results in slanging matches and threads beimg derailed so yes imo the mods should be looking at the way you post.

I have said it a few times not my fault that you are so blinkered you resort to disingenuous erronous self proclaiming excuses for a very ordinary player whose flaws far out weigh any good he does.

I suppose first of all you have to be honest and actually admit his flaws and then go from there but you say one thing and then the opposite in another moment.

As stated if you seriously believe what your saying then i certainly believe it far better to ignore you and i would suggest others do the same as having an even balanced and fair debate about this bloke is nigh on impossible.
 
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_RT_

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No its your explanation of what Ellis role is to fit in with the myriad amount of excuses you make up for him. and most disagree with you.Just because you say it doesnt make you right.I dont need your explanation of his role because imo you are implicitly wrong.
Again Kiwi Tiger who has inside knowledge of the various roles has backed the premise of what I've said is Ellis role, but continue to ignore that because it doesn't fit your opinion.


Just for you Ellis averages 13.6 metres gained per possesion.give or take. But he doesnt stop prop go back wards or sideways can you hear yourself.
You refuse to acknowlede it even when it slaps you in the face.Apparently he doesnt give off hospital handpasses and he never takes a short step. Apparemtly the club has never dropped him either for these things.
Never said he doesn't stop and prop or panic under pressure or never short steps contests, just that he doesn't do it every time posters like you claim he does, but again lets ignore that.

Finally Jack Ross shows just how easily he can be replaced. an 18 yr old coming off an injury and half a game is already a mile in front and can play wing providing a well rounded role of both defense and attack.
Ross' best role is as an inside midfielder, but lets take him away from that role and then you can continue to complain about us not having enough big bodied mids.

As for being banned yep it happened but not for trolling.So go ahead have another shot.Im not sure what my being banned has to do with anything about Ellis but hey that just shows how low your prepared to stoop.
You go out of your way to be deliberatly vague and disingenuous which results in slanging matches and threads beimg derailed so yes imo the mods should be looking at the way you post.
Hmmm, firstly you accuse me of posting mountains of stats, but then you accuse me of being deliberately vague, so which one is it? BTW if you want to talk about derailing threads, rarely if ever do I take threads off topic. I address points raised and will only respond in kind when others are disrespectful towards me.

Secondly I've been a member of this board for nearly 13 years and I'd say in that time I've earned a bit of respect among other members. Don't always agree with other members but I always respect their opinion as long as it's returned.


I have said it a few times not my fault that you are so blinkered you resort to disingenuous erronous self proclaiming excuses for a very ordinary player whose flaws far out weigh any good he does.

I suppose first of all you have to be honest and actually admit his flaws and then go from there but you say one thing and then the opposite in another moment.

As stated if you seriously believe what your saying then i certainly believe it far better to ignore you and i would suggest others do the same as having an even balanced and fair debate about this bloke is nigh on impossible.
I've repeatedly said that I accept that Ellis has a number of flaws in his game, another thing that is repeatedly ignored for some reason, and I've repeatedly said that I am not fussed if he stays or goes as he is a replaceable player, however there isn't anyone who is replacing him right now without it having a negative impact on how we play in 2019. In 2020 that may change as younger better skilled options develop.
 
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ARES

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that is the most fanciful post i have ever read on Ellis. so now clubs are using decoys to negate his run fwd. take a harder look and note how often Ellis has anyone remotely close to him. Clubs dont bother about him because they know he has no hurt factor

Oh and i would have thought it a given that all players go when its their turn to go not constantly take short steps thus hardly ever getting there in time to win a hard ball.
Some posters may well be stuck in the 70s 80s but some a re most definately stuck in ga ga land
Use spell check Mopsy

I don't fuss with your posting, as you are entitled to your opinion as am I, but you really need to move on from vhs...
The game has long developed and you are stuck in yesteryear...

I guarantee you RFC will be working out how to negate McGovern, as WC will be trying to work out how to minimise restrict our ball movement deep within defence...

You are sounding like Newman...
 

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Caveman68

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Ellis remains in the side for now in my opinion as he is a safe alternative to other somewhat erratic players ie Kamdyn, Menadue, Markov and Cellis last year. You know what your getting with Brando. A bland, safe player who’ll get it 20 odd times a game and generally not mess it up too much. He is consistent in his averageness. I liken him to Bez from the Happy Mondays. He is on stage, dancing around, but not doing a lot to improve the band.
 

Phar Ace

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He is consistent in his averageness.
That's a beautiful line. Reeks of horrible inoffensiveness. Imagine that next to Bellis's name up on the whiteboard of List Managers at about a 17 Clubs under the heading Available Restricted Free Agents. Just under Steve Coniglio's, who has (absolute gun) next to his.

Harsh, but at some level fair! Fair, but at some level harsh!
 
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Caveman68

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That's a beautiful line. Reeks of horrible inoffensiveness. Imagine that next to Bellis's name up on the whiteboard of List Managers at about a 17 Clubs under the heading Available Restricted Free Agents. Just under Steve Coniglio who has (absolute gun) next to his.

Harsh, but at some level fair! Fair, but at some level harsh!
Yep I think Brandon is the type of player most coaches in this modern era of defensive tactics and game plans want from someone in the bottom 4-6 of their teams best 22. I don’t mean to be harsh on Brando but unfortunately no one else has gone past him and thus he remains in the side and therefore a whipping boy for his shortcomings.

I really do hope he does what past whipping boys Grigga, Sheds and Houli have done and that is to have outstanding back ends to their careers.
 

mopsy

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People sitting there praising Ellis up and calling him tough for laying the odd good tackle here and there. Never mind it rarely happens and never mind he rarely if ever is prepared to be tackled.Never mind few of his tackles are ever effective.

Laying a tackle is not being tough its a simple skill that is expected of all players.Tough is wearing a hard tackle knowing its coming and not putting the teammate in a position where he cops it instead.Tough is putting your head over the ball knowing its coming.
Tough is making sure you get the hands free drawing a player in knowing your going to get hammered. when if ever does this happen with Ellis.
 

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