AFL Player 5: Elijah Tsatas

[Nuggs Bunny]

 

[MPMonkeys]

How long does it have to be before it’s reasonable to expect him to have afl standard fitness then? Sure he had a few injury issues, more than two years ago mind you. I know he hurt his hamstring this year but this conversation started before then.

He’s paid to be an afl footballer after all. At the end of 2023, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. At the end of 2024, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. Now, at the end of 2025, the focus for him will be to get fitter. I haven’t mentioned in all of those discussions, the other point would’ve been that he needs to sort his kicking out. Essendon’s two biggest needs are good runners and good ball users, of which he is neither.

Our two biggest needs this year were key defenders and key forwards - of which we have a few options however they were all injured this year.
Our work from stoppage and clearance was actually pretty good under the circumstances. We have plenty of runners in Duursma, Redman, Roberts, Clarke, Durham and others.

There is a difference between being fit and having good endurance. I'm sure Tsatas is fit enough - its the ability to do repeat efforts at the same level over a whole game where endurance comes into it.

 

[faible]

How long does it have to be before it’s reasonable to expect him to have afl standard fitness then? Sure he had a few injury issues, more than two years ago mind you. I know he hurt his hamstring this year but this conversation started before then.

He’s paid to be an afl footballer after all. At the end of 2023, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. At the end of 2024, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. Now, at the end of 2025, the focus for him will be to get fitter. I haven’t mentioned in all of those discussions, the other point would’ve been that he needs to sort his kicking out. Essendon’s two biggest needs are good runners and good ball users, of which he is neither.

Took Petracca what, 5-6 seasons before he had midfield fitness? DeGoey about 7?

Parish wasn't properly AFL midfield fit until his 5th or 6th, he could always find the ball but to go to that next level took time.

The one thing Tsatas has never, ever been reported to be is lazy. By all account he's very willing to work hard. He's had multiple lower body injuries that have interrupted his running, for a guy who isn't a natural endurance runner that's a massive setback.

Tsatas may never be what we hoped he would be, but there's also plenty of examples of players taking 4, 5, or 6 years in the system to be properly AFL midfielder fit.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Will he / won’t he make it

The real issue is that he is a top 5 pick and a few years in he is well short of where both he and the club hoped he would be

It creates pressure both ways and is likely to see him pushed out or opt to leave before he gets his act together (if he ever does)

 

[Chief Hopper]

Took Petracca what, 5-6 seasons before he had midfield fitness? DeGoey about 7?

Parish wasn't properly AFL midfield fit until his 5th or 6th, he could always find the ball but to go to that next level took time.

Petracca and DeGoey weren't that far off in their 2nd season though. They didn't go completely missing in matches.

In fact many top 10 draft picks such has Dangerfield, Petracca, DeGoey, Pendlebury, Wines were playing nearly every game available in their 2nd year onwards.
Could say the game has changed a bit. But from what I remember those other players mentioned showed their potential during the first couple AFL seasons. Tsatas I havent seen anything yet.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Petracca and DeGoey weren't that far off in their 2nd season though. They didn't go completely missing in matches.

In fact many top 10 draft picks such has Dangerfield, Petracca, DeGoey, Pendlebury, Wines were playing nearly every game available in their 2nd year onwards.
Could say the game has changed a bit. But from what I remember those other players mentioned showed their potential during the first couple AFL seasons. Tsatas I havent seen anything yet.

Those players were all quite adept in attack so they could get games while their endurance improved enough for a move to the midfield. If Tsatas was a better kick he’d probably be doing the same thing

 

[bacon buster]

I mean maybe. Petracca has never been a "great" kick. It's also hard to swallow when you look at some of the spuds we've given games to over the last few years.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I mean maybe. Petracca has never been a "great" kick. It's also hard to swallow when you look at some of the spuds we've given games to over the last few years.

He doesn’t have to be a great kick in that role, but it would have helped. If he were a more willing tackler he might’ve taken Hobbs’ spot.

He just strikes me as too one dimensional to play a different position while his fitness builds up.

 

[ant555]

Yeah but he's not unique there? I don't see how that could possibly be relevant 3 years later.
Did we not do our DD on him? I mean many young players have had injury interrpted U18 years and gone on to have much success at AFL level?

I have no idea as far as any endurance testing goes.

 

[ant555]

How long does it have to be before it’s reasonable to expect him to have afl standard fitness then? Sure he had a few injury issues, more than two years ago mind you. I know he hurt his hamstring this year but this conversation started before then.

He’s paid to be an afl footballer after all. At the end of 2023, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. At the end of 2024, the focus for him would’ve been to get fitter. Now, at the end of 2025, the focus for him will be to get fitter. I haven’t mentioned in all of those discussions, the other point would’ve been that he needs to sort his kicking out. Essendon’s two biggest needs are good runners and good ball users, of which he is neither.

Preaching to the converted

 

[katana]

Essendon’s two biggest needs are good runners and good ball users, of which he is neither.

and yet, there's darcy parish in your avatar. so who really knows.

 

[BrunoV]

Need to make sure we're properly applying Jobe Watson as a precedent.

Would Watson have been an elite player if he wasn't built like a rugby player at 191cm? I fail to see how that could be so.

He may well have had hands which were at the level of Parish, which Tsatas may also have, but he also combined it with the ability to absorb the physical pressure of multiple players.

What the stat sheet doesn't tell you is whether the player determines the tempo of play. Players like Jobe essentially handball the ball in their own time. Players like Parish and Tsatas fire the ball all over the place because they need to release before contact.

 

[bacon buster]

Need to make sure we're properly applying Jobe Watson as a precedent.

Would Watson have been an elite player if he wasn't built like a rugby player at 191cm? I fail to see how that could be so.

He may well have had hands which were at the level of Parish, which Tsatas may also have, but he also combined it with the ability to absorb the physical pressure of multiple players.

What the stat sheet doesn't tell you is whether the player determines the tempo of play. Players like Jobe essentially handball the ball in their own time. Players like Parish and Tsatas fire the ball all over the place because they need to release before contact.

No argument from me on that. Jobe was a gun. I was merely comparing the two from an endurance standpoint. I'm not sure Jobe could have run a lap of Marvel Stadium in his first game without getting puffed.

 

[Vander18]

Here is some data for you. I'll compare Tsatas to some random midfielders who play a similar role. Jack Crisp, Josh Kelly. Sam Walsh, Jordan Dawson and Sam Flanders.

Disposals per clanger.
Tsatas rates the best at 9.3. Durham, Crisp & Dawson the worst with 5.25, 5.08 & 5.46 respectively
Meters gained per disposal
Dawson the highest at 20.13. Walsh and Tsatas the worst at 12.23 and 12.53 respectively
Contested possession rate
Durham and Tstatas best with 52.21 and 48.71. Kelly and Flanders worst at 32.82 and 32.19
First possession to clearance
Tsatas best at 84. Walsh and Crisp worst at 68.33 and 72

Where he needs to Improve
Pressure Acts
Tsatas worst at 10.8. Then Flanders at 12.40. The others are all in the high teens or twenties
Kicking efficiency
Tsatas worst at 42.5. Crisp best at 60

If he can get his kicking efficiency up to 50, then we will have a real player. He is an inside player with a handball first mentality and he usually chooses the right options by hand as evident by the high first possession to clearance number.

The game is evolving a little over the past few years where elite hands are a real asset. He is a weapon in that regards.

Stats!

An even better way to tell us you never watched him play without telling us you never watched him play.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Players like Jobe essentially handball the ball in their own time. Players like Parish and Tsatas fire the ball all over the place because they need to release before contact.

Jobe wasn't doing that early on though.

Here's a video I found of Richo breaking the part of Jobe's improved kicking down @ 1:39 (video should start at that point),



He was rushing his kicks, shanking them and getting gassed in games. It was only when he was able to get possession outside that he found more time/space to assess his options better/measure his kicks. And his kicking improved. Keep in mind this is by 2011/2012. Way after his debut. Sheedy famously wanted to trade him. It was only Jobe's work ethic that pulled him through, something Tsatas shares greatly.

 

[Duckworth]

Jobe wasn't doing that early on though.

Here's a video I found of Richo breaking the part of Jobe's improved kicking down @ 1:39 (video should start at that point),



He was rushing his kicks, shanking them and getting gassed in games. It was only when he was able to get possession outside that he found more time/space to assess his options better/measure his kicks. And his kicking improved. Keep in mind this is by 2011/2012. Way after his debut. Sheedy famously wanted to delist him. It was only Jobe's work ethic that pulled him through, something Tsatas shares greatly.

get fitter kick better huh?

 

[Old Campaigner]

Stats!

An even better way to tell us you never watched him play without telling us you never watched him play.

Just need a comparison of their supercoach scores

 

[Old man fletch]

Jobe wasn't doing that early on though.

Here's a video I found of Richo breaking the part of Jobe's improved kicking down @ 1:39 (video should start at that point),



He was rushing his kicks, shanking them and getting gassed in games. It was only when he was able to get possession outside that he found more time/space to assess his options better/measure his kicks. And his kicking improved. Keep in mind this is by 2011/2012. Way after his debut. Sheedy famously wanted to trade him. It was only Jobe's work ethic that pulled him through, something Tsatas shares greatly.

Depends on the work he puts in too.

Not ITK so I accept others saying he's a hard trainer. No idea whether he's putting in work outside the club though. Jobes burst onto the scene was after taking the responsibility on himself to work with a (boxing?) coach in the off season. Travis Boak has spoken about Hypoxic training and how it helped him with endurance and also clearer decision making under match conditions.

For those guys who are fringe, the ones that make it are the ones willing to invest and put in the work outside the club. If he stays with us, hopefully this is Tsatas.

 

[brutus76]

Straight swap for Zane Duursma

 

[Bipolar Bear]

Straight swap for Zane Duursma

Easy trade.

 

[ant555]

Just do not see Tsatas as a Clarkson type player.

 

[Zach Package]

Apparently staying.

But is there intent to play him?

 

[Nifft]

Apparently staying.

But is there intent to play him?

There were rumours that he was looking around. I guess this means that none of the other clubs are interested?

 

[Sleepwalker]

Club thought he was unlucky with injury this year. If he remains fit I expect him to play alot of games next year.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

We need this boy to stand up next year. Hopefully they can work with him and use some of his traits to build a good footballer.

There is still a bit of time for this kid. Big preseason.

 

[CBombers17]

Just bring in the dude that fixed Mosquitoes kicking.