AFL Player 5: Elijah Tsatas

[Nuggs Bunny]

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Are they setting him up to fail?

He is a clearance specialist. I envision him to be the type of player that can use his speed to burst away from stoppages.

And then what? Try to kick it and miss his foot?

Winning clearances gets you nowhere these days as a midfielder. It’s just a string on the bow of a decent midfielder. They need to be able to do other things well and unfortunately, Tsatas can’t.

If he’s being offered any role at all he should grab it with both hands. Because at the moment there’s not much to suggest he’s an AFL footballer. Hopefully he makes a new role his own and becomes one.

 

[JayJ20]

Tsatas tackles plenty in the VFL in a role where hes ball chasing

His greatest asset right now is his size, discipline and determination, all features of a good negator

He can still win clearance as a negator

Atkins, Dunkley, Hewett ect win plenty

Please Dunkley, Atkins and Hewett are completely different players to Tsatas. I think you're watching a different player and calling him Tsatas.

Tsatas' ceiling is a poor mans Shiel. It's like asking Shiel and Parish to be defensive mids.

 

[JayJ20]

With his kicking skills if he can’t defend he’s not an afl player.

Your either a two way player, a one way player or a no way player and his disposal will see him always as a limited offensive option.

Setters got heaps of ball by constantly being in the contest and it will be the same for Tsatsas

And then what? Try to kick it and miss his foot?

Winning clearances gets you nowhere these days as a midfielder. It’s just a string on the bow of a decent midfielder. They need to be able to do other things well and unfortunately, Tsatas can’t.

If he’s being offered any role at all he should grab it with both hands. Because at the moment there’s not much to suggest he’s an AFL footballer. Hopefully he makes a new role his own and becomes one.

I have serious doubts he'll make it even in his preferred role because of his poor skills, but I just don't see him making it as a defensive mid. In fact, he's one of the last mids I'd give that role to because he just doesn't have the competitiveness even in his junior years.

 

[Keystone agony]

Please Dunkley, Atkins and Hewett are completely different players to Tsatas. I think you're watching a different player and calling him Tsatas.

Tsatas' ceiling is a poor mans Shiel. It's like asking Shiel and Parish to be defensive mids.

The argument was that taggers/negators cant win clearance thus it isnt utilising his best asset according to poster above

Dunkley, Atkins, Hewett and many others prove this inaccurate

Im not saying he is similar or not to them. Id argue hes not totally too far from Hewett in terms of size, clearance ability, spread, skill

2 things on the surface seperate them. Shiel and Parish dont have the discipline, determination or size Tsatas does. They also have far better speed/kicking and have been to the promiseland already in being recognised high end players in AFL as by their contracts and AA recognition

Its last option stuff, the other hasnt worked. Were onto plan D and ita close to the last, why not give it a go?. As mentioned, he atleast has some attributes that work in that role

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I have serious doubts he'll make it even in his preferred role because of his poor skills, but I just don't see him making it as a defensive mid. In fact, he's one of the last mids I'd give that role to because he just doesn't have the competitiveness even in his junior years.

It might just come down to the fact that he’s contracted and on the list, so let’s try something.

It’s pretty clear Scott doesn’t really rate him, he seems to drop him as soon as he gets the chance.

If nothing works then you’d say delisted at the end of 2026 - and that’s probably the odds-on outcome at this stage.

 

[Vander18]

I still maintain a Francis breakout season is imminent

Him and Ukovic.

It will happen!

 

[JayJ20]

The argument was that taggers/negators cant win clearance thus it isnt utilising his best asset according to poster above

Dunkley, Atkins, Hewett and many others prove this inaccurate

Im not saying he is similar or not to them. Id argue hes not totally too far from Hewett in terms of size, clearance ability, spread, skill

2 things on the surface seperate them. Shiel and Parish dont have the discipline, determination or size Tsatas does. They also have far better speed/kicking and have been to the promiseland already in being recognised high end players in AFL as by their contracts and AA recognition

Its last option stuff, the other hasnt worked. Were onto plan D and ita close to the last, why not give it a go?. As mentioned, he atleast has some attributes that work in that role

I find the size talk to be fanciful at this stage because he doesn't use his size when he plays. He has never shown appetite for the contest. Sure they can try it, but I'm not holding my breath. As far as impact goes, he uses his body the way Parish uses it. It's like that time we called Tom Cutler big bodied.

If the outcome of his determination and discipline has meant he can't play at AFL level, then I'm not sure why it rates a mention.

 

[King Patty]

I find the size talk to be fanciful at this stage because he doesn't use his size when he plays. He has never shown appetite for the contest. Sure they can try it, but I'm not holding my breath. As far as impact goes, he uses his body the way Parish uses it. It's like that time we called Tom Cutler big bodied.

If the outcome of his determination and discipline has meant he can't play at AFL level, then I'm not sure why it rates a mention.

Yep your likely right.
What set setterfield apart from our mids was - tackling, aggression and being able to take a mark in the midifeld.
Merrett has a crack with the tackling.

But Tsatas has a lot of work to do on intent and attack on the footy in a marking contest to deliver us the same output that Setterfield has the last couple of years.

 

[faible]

I haven't seen anywhere that says we plan to use him as a tagger. Playing as a defensive mid and tagging aren't the same thing. Most defensive mids can tag, not all taggers can play defensive mid.

We used McGrath as a defensive mid but not really as a tagger. Setterfield mostly played defensive mid with us but has tagged at times in his career. Perkins has played as a tagger but struggles as a defensive mid because he lacked midfield awareness.

Steele & Dunkley are both recent defensive mids that started out tagging but played their best as defensive midfielders. Rowbottom has done the same.

IMO; defensive mid usually means defensive side midfielder; they start (and stay) defensive side of the stoppage to try to negate the opposition getting clean possession coming through the offensive side of the stoppage and/or win their own clearances secondary to that. To play that role you need proper midfield awareness (which Tsatas has) and good defensive intent (which Tsatas hasn't particularly shown).

Given with Setterfield gone we lack anyone that plays that role of a good size (McGrath can do it, but he's undersized) since they like to use Durham and Caldwell in more offensive ways, it's an obvious position to try Tsatas in as a last chance saloon. He has midfield nous and a decent frame, can he learn to play defensively?

 

[jdstorm]

I haven't seen anywhere that says we plan to use him as a tagger. Playing as a defensive mid and tagging aren't the same thing. Most defensive mids can tag, not all taggers can play defensive mid.

We used McGrath as a defensive mid but not really as a tagger. Setterfield mostly played defensive mid with us but has tagged at times in his career. Perkins has played as a tagger but struggles as a defensive mid because he lacked midfield awareness.

Steele & Dunkley are both recent defensive mids that started out tagging but played their best as defensive midfielders. Rowbottom has done the same.

IMO; defensive mid usually means defensive side midfielder; they start (and stay) defensive side of the stoppage to try to negate the opposition getting clean possession coming through the offensive side of the stoppage and/or win their own clearances secondary to that. To play that role you need proper midfield awareness (which Tsatas has) and good defensive intent (which Tsatas hasn't particularly shown).

Given with Setterfield gone we lack anyone that plays that role of a good size (McGrath can do it, but he's undersized) since they like to use Durham and Caldwell in more offensive ways, it's an obvious position to try Tsatas in as a last chance saloon. He has midfield nous and a decent frame, can he learn to play defensively?

Suspect Nick Martin will get that role when he returns but Tsatas will have a few weeks to earn himself a spot with the 2nd mid rotation

 

[Keystone agony]

I find the size talk to be fanciful at this stage because he doesn't use his size when he plays. He has never shown appetite for the contest. Sure they can try it, but I'm not holding my breath. As far as impact goes, he uses his body the way Parish uses it. It's like that time we called Tom Cutler big bodied.

If the outcome of his determination and discipline has meant he can't play at AFL level, then I'm not sure why it rates a mention.

An extra 5-10kg is helpful. As much as he may not use it like Dangerfield or Cripps. It still allows him to hold his ground and not give valuable space around contest, it also makes it far more difficult to be pushed off to create seperation when comparing to a Parish, Naicos type

Tsatas entire game is around contest with clearances and Contested Possessions

Cutler never played inside, he played wing

Rates a mention because there important to negating roles. They certainly aint the reason hes falling short. His kicking is, sometimes you can put in as much work as you want, but if you dont have the talent, you dont make it. Plenty of super hard working kids out there, that dont make it

Id say this will be a stoppage tag

Remember how good Ed Langdon wmdid with some tagging roles, notoriously been known as a soft outside player. So dont put a line through just yet

This is last resort sortve stuff. He may be given PS to see how hes going and then early games in the same role as hes always done, but if it doesnt work somewhere along the line, atleast give this a go as last resort

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I agree it sounds like a last resort. End of the day it’s pretty clear we’re only ever gonna get a bit part / role player out of him, not a star that you’d hope to land in the Top 5.

I remain fascinated with these guys how an entire industry can get it so wrong. It’s not an Essendon thing, he was predicted by all and sundry to be a top pick.

 

[King Patty]

I agree it sounds like a last resort. End of the day it’s pretty clear we’re only ever gonna get a bit part / role player out of him, not a star that you’d hope to land in the Top 5.

I remain fascinated with these guys how an entire industry can get it so wrong. It’s not an Essendon thing, he was predicted by all and sundry to be a top pick.

Part of it could be environment.
Coach backing him in.
Clearly we have been trying to work on his weaknesses.
Maybe initially we just thought he would fast track in, then had the knee injury, then struggled to get in from VFL, ended up playing last 4 games year 1.

Then year 2 in and out of the side and sub.

Then year 3 in and out of side sub and injured and carryover emergency.

played 16 games, I would say at least 30% he's been sub probably more.

2023 4 AFL games 7 VFL games total 11 games - Knee injury effected
2024 7 AFL games VFL games total 18 games - allowing for extra vfl byes, close to full season
2025 5 AFL Games 7 VFL Games total 12 games - injury, held over sub and VFL schedule resulted in missed games

He was clearly confident year 1, and that has waned and his weaknesses exposed.
Maybe throw him into the Brisbane Lions - he either plays plenty of games and other players cover his weaknesses, or he end up playing predominantly VFL like Devon Robertson.
Even Jhye Smith at Geelong has had a slow start as well.

 

[Stopher]

There's a few posters who seem pretty invested in him failing. They've made a call, and they want to be right on the internet.

On Bigfooty???

 

[FlyingV]

I have this toxic trait where I still think he will make it

 

[Goat Hird]

He's two years away from being two years away

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I have this toxic trait where I still think he will make it

I give him zero chance, also hope like hell you are right and I’m wrong.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Reckon Tsatas has got a fair bit more competition for a spot again after the draft. Robey and Sharp look like similar types.

One I found very interesting which made me think of Tsatas was the non drafting of Ollie Greeves. He did miss the combine with illness but he was still being touted as a late first round / second round pick. He hasn’t been picked up, will probably just get a rookie spot. He dominated at all levels this year, is big and an absolute ball pig. But his #1 question mark in all the profiles is his running and transition. Seems to underline the fact yet again - inside mids who can win the footy aren’t valued for that skill - they need to be able to run and do much more.

 

[eth-dog]

Reckon Tsatas has got a fair bit more competition for a spot again after the draft. Robey and Sharp look like similar types.

One I found very interesting which made me think of Tsatas was the non drafting of Ollie Greeves. He did miss the combine with illness but he was still being touted as a late first round / second round pick. He hasn’t been picked up, will probably just get a rookie spot. He dominated at all levels this year, is big and an absolute ball pig. But his #1 question mark in all the profiles is his running and transition. Seems to underline the fact yet again - inside mids who can win the footy aren’t valued for that skill - they need to be able to run and do much more.

Rumour has it that Greeves faked the illness because he was getting hammered

 

[NAB777]

Rumour has it that Greeves faked the illness because he was getting hammered

If that's true, the guy has bigger issues than not being drafted.

 

[faible]

Reckon Tsatas has got a fair bit more competition for a spot again after the draft. Robey and Sharp look like similar types.

One I found very interesting which made me think of Tsatas was the non drafting of Ollie Greeves. He did miss the combine with illness but he was still being touted as a late first round / second round pick. He hasn’t been picked up, will probably just get a rookie spot. He dominated at all levels this year, is big and an absolute ball pig. But his #1 question mark in all the profiles is his running and transition. Seems to underline the fact yet again - inside mids who can win the footy aren’t valued for that skill - they need to be able to run and do much more.

Rumour has it that Greeves faked the illness because he was getting hammered

If that's true, the guy has bigger issues than not being drafted.

Guys like Greeves who've had good form but gone undrafted previously usually have some really big skeletons hiding in their closet that the public aren't aware of.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Guys like Greeves who've had good form but gone undrafted previously usually have some really big skeletons hiding in their closet that the public aren't aware of.

He's apparently also slow and not a great user of the ball so probably one of those kids who dominates against lighter bodies in juniors but isn't thought to have the traits to succeed at the senior level.

Arie Schoenmaker was a complete ****up but had some elite traits so someone was prepared to have a punt on him despite that. Not that it paid off particularly well, and it probably shouldn't surprise that someone like that off field doesn't have the mindset to succeed in the ultra professional environment of modern sport.

 

[dank420_]

I miss Gach Nyuon.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Have heard the Greeves rumours but the more you read about his game, the more he just sounds like a Tsatas type - somebody who wows everybody with his ability to win the ball, but who AFL clubs aren’t actually really into because he can’t run.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Have heard the Greeves rumours but the more you read about his game, the more he just sounds like a Tsatas type - somebody who wows everybody with his ability to win the ball, but who AFL clubs aren’t actually really into because he can’t run.

Yeah you wonder if Tsatas had a full season of U18s with no injuries maybe he'd have been in the same boat.