Player Watch #5 Jack Ross

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Marcel Proust

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I can't believe that 34k stat. That is Markov/Menadue speed. Never once seen him show someone a clean set of heels.
Agree completely on his hardness and fitness, but he averages only 15 disposals. His gets games pretty well due to those defensive qualities.

If another player comes along that goes through the middle with more attributes like Bolton, then they leapfrog players like Graham. He was dropped for quite a few games from memory last season, so he is no walk up. He responded well and had a good last part of the year.

But if Ross and RCD come in and can do the defensive stuff and play a more rounded game, then I think Graham will have to play for his spot again. He is obviously the weakest link in that midfield of Martin, Cotchin, Edwards, Prestia and now Bolton, which is no slight on him, champioin midfield, but it makes it hard. Caddy faced and faces the same situation, again, it his lack of pace that makes him a player on the periphery these days. Higgins the same.
I thought bit was strange too but I'm not going to debate the speed gun.

You'd think George. Balta. Bolton. Baker etc. But if you look close. Graham is really fast at times
 

Grrr

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I thought bit was strange too but I'm not going to debate the speed gun.

You'd think George. Balta. Bolton. Baker etc. But if you look close. Graham is really fast at times
I've looked plenty and to me he is slow, hence he is often second to the ball and thus the tackler.

About the minute mark, he and MacIntosh going flat chat. It is one video, so obviously not great evidence. The knock on him pre draft is that he was not quick, which is about right.
Might have to agree to disagree on this one. (As long as I get the last word).
 

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Marcel Proust

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I've looked plenty and to me he is slow, hence he is often second to the ball and thus the tackler.

About the minute mark, he and MacIntosh going flat chat. It is one video, so obviously not great evidence. The knock on him pre draft is that he was not quick, which is about right.
Might have to agree to disagree on this one. (As long as I get the last word).
Ok so what is your theory

As to why, he was recorded as really fast ?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Ok so what is your theory

As to why, he was recorded as really fast ?
No idea. The speed thingo recorded him faster than Menadue and Markov, Bolton, Rioli, Balta etc!
Electronic things make mistakes, the guy recording it recorded it incorrectly, but I have never seen him noticeably use his speed, just his gut running, which he is elite at.
 

Dr Tigris

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Reckon he will close the gap big time this season. This is the problem with being such a dominant side, and not really starting to see some falling with age from many players, how to fit them in. Ross and RCD will have to be given games this year, at times in front of players who don't deserve to be dropped. If not they will be gone. Both of them could be stars, and you'll never know how good they will be until you have a real good look at them.

I see Ross very much like Prestia who I rate as about a top 10 mid in the league. An accumulator, but one who uses the ball so well, you make it sound so vanilla. Ross accumulates but stands up in tackles because he is so strong and distributes the ball with his head very still, picks attacking options and rarely seems hurried. Graham gets most of his ball running at top speed, linking, moving the ball on, as I mentioned before, a bit like Lambert. Two very different players. Graham is a very good defensive mid, whatever that really means because it seems a category almost for him, other than taggers. Name another quality defensive mid. Give me an attacking one any day, provided they can do both, He hit good form at the end of the year and if he can keep that up then he will be hard to displace.
Reckon RCD will be a bigger threat to Graham, because he likes the tough stuff as well and is a big aggressive player with great speed. Could be unstoppable one day.

Graham finished the season very well, and was a lot more attacking. He is only young so he is far from fully developed as a player, so you may be right. But until the last part of the season, I have always considered him to be pretty limited, Grand Final 2017 aside!
Graham makes our midfield system work, along with Cotch. His work inside messes up other teams and allows us to get that first ball from the contest an break aways. On its own that's elite in one tiny slice of the game. He has the ability, and has started to add other dimensions to his game. SO I see Graham as potentially the best player of his type in the AFL. It's a type that is rare and very modern though.

Ross is potentially a genuine classic good to very good contested mid, with outside ability. I want him to succeed cause you need that type. The comparo to Meatball is spot on I reckon. He has the ability to be B grade or better. I wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years I see AA against his name. But I won't predict it.

RCD is a different beast. He has size, speed and power, alongside skill and love for hitting hard. He can add a new dimension to our midfield. he needs to be a really mature powerful unit to play that way in the AFL. If he can step up and get to contests and use the ball, as well a the pressure/tackling stuff, RCD could be a game changer. I see him as all potential, to the Bont level. But comparatively high risk of not getting there.

If we get all 3 going well in a few years we will have a very top end midfield. especially with Shai and co still going strong. Managing the transition from a Cotch led midfield to a the new guys won't be easy, but it looks good.
 

Marcel Proust

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No idea. The speed thingo recorded him faster than Menadue and Markov, Bolton, Rioli, Balta etc!
Electronic things make mistakes, the guy recording it recorded it incorrectly, but I have never seen him noticeably use his speed, just his gut running, which he is elite at.
Quickest I seen live was george.

But over small distance. Looked like a Japanese cartoon character
 

Dr Tigris

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No idea. The speed thingo recorded him faster than Menadue and Markov, Bolton, Rioli, Balta etc!
Electronic things make mistakes, the guy recording it recorded it incorrectly, but I have never seen him noticeably use his speed, just his gut running, which he is elite at.
There is a massive difference between speed of the mark, and top end speed. I don't see graham as fast of the mark, but when he winds it up he flies. Given most footy happen in short bursts graham looks slow. That what i reckon.
 

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There is a massive difference between speed of the mark, and top end speed. I don't see graham as fast of the mark, but when he winds it up he flies. Given most footy happen in short bursts graham looks slow. That what i reckon.
I feel like quoting Monty Python's parrot sketch back at you but it's time gentlemen.
 
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Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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Graham makes our midfield system work, along with Cotch. His work inside messes up other teams and allows us to get that first ball from the contest an break aways. On its own that's elite in one tiny slice of the game. He has the ability, and has started to add other dimensions to his game. SO I see Graham as potentially the best player of his type in the AFL. It's a type that is rare and very modern though.

Ross is potentially a genuine classic good to very good contested mid, with outside ability. I want him to succeed cause you need that type. The comparo to Meatball is spot on I reckon. He has the ability to be B grade or better. I wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years I see AA against his name. But I won't predict it.

RCD is a different beast. He has size, speed and power, alongside skill and love for hitting hard. He can add a new dimension to our midfield. he needs to be a really mature powerful unit to play that way in the AFL. If he can step up and get to contests and use the ball, as well a the pressure/tackling stuff, RCD could be a game changer. I see him as all potential, to the Bont level. But comparatively high risk of not getting there.

If we get all 3 going well in a few years we will have a very top end midfield. especially with Shai and co still going strong. Managing the transition from a Cotch led midfield to a the new guys won't be easy, but it looks good.
No doubt Graham in form makes our midfield better, just how much better compared to the young up and coming brigade is yet to be determined. All are young, so all should improve. If Graham stays in the midfield, which RCD, Ross and Bolton, then hats off to him.

I love some of the things he brings to our game, just reckon his defensive stuff is way over rated, because for a defensive mid he looks best to me when he is attacking. He kicks goals and other mids can't go with him all day. He is neat and doesn't fumble and is part of a lot of our offensive chains. See no reason why he can't play Lambert's role, who basically covers for Martin who basically never goes north of the circle. Lambert is 29 and will slow down, and cops a few injuries.
 

69vintage

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Jack Riewoldt rates Jack Graham as the best kick to the forwards on a lead at the club .
Reckon he will close the gap big time this season. This is the problem with being such a dominant side, and not really starting to see some falling with age from many players, how to fit them in. Ross and RCD will have to be given games this year, at times in front of players who don't deserve to be dropped. If not they will be gone. Both of them could be stars, and you'll never know how good they will be until you have a real good look at them.

I see Ross very much like Prestia who I rate as about a top 10 mid in the league. An accumulator, but one who uses the ball so well, you make it sound so vanilla. Ross accumulates but stands up in tackles because he is so strong and distributes the ball with his head very still, picks attacking options and rarely seems hurried. Graham gets most of his ball running at top speed, linking, moving the ball on, as I mentioned before, a bit like Lambert. Two very different players. Graham is a very good defensive mid, whatever that really means because it seems a category almost for him, other than taggers. Name another quality defensive mid. Give me an attacking one any day, provided they can do both, He hit good form at the end of the year and if he can keep that up then he will be hard to displace.
Reckon RCD will be a bigger threat to Graham, because he likes the tough stuff as well and is a big aggressive player with great speed. Could be unstoppable one day.

Graham finished the season very well, and was a lot more attacking. He is only young so he is far from fully developed as a player, so you may be right. But until the last part of the season, I have always considered him to be pretty limited, Grand Final 2017 aside!
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Jack Riewoldt rates Jack Graham as the best kick to the forwards on a lead at the club .

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Dusty might beg to differ, but as I said in my last post, he is very neat. doesn't kick it over 45m but it is straight and usually hits his mark. I reckon MacIntosh is a bit the same and that his wonky kicking is way overblown. Both of them very neat. Grboth get the ball at speed and runs in straight lines, much easier for a forward to read when to lead to.
 

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Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
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It'd be nice if he did it more often then, hes certainly not a noted weapon delivering inside 50 at AFL level.
Well he is not a big possession winner, but when he does deliver he is usually pretty accurate. Doesn't try and bite off more than he can chew. Edwards and Dusty are the opposite, brilliant when it works but howlers when it doesn't.
 

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Graham makes our midfield system work, along with Cotch. His work inside messes up other teams and allows us to get that first ball from the contest an break aways. On its own that's elite in one tiny slice of the game. He has the ability, and has started to add other dimensions to his game. SO I see Graham as potentially the best player of his type in the AFL. It's a type that is rare and very modern though.

Ross is potentially a genuine classic good to very good contested mid, with outside ability. I want him to succeed cause you need that type. The comparo to Meatball is spot on I reckon. He has the ability to be B grade or better. I wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years I see AA against his name. But I won't predict it.

RCD is a different beast. He has size, speed and power, alongside skill and love for hitting hard. He can add a new dimension to our midfield. he needs to be a really mature powerful unit to play that way in the AFL. If he can step up and get to contests and use the ball, as well a the pressure/tackling stuff, RCD could be a game changer. I see him as all potential, to the Bont level. But comparatively high risk of not getting there.

If we get all 3 going well in a few years we will have a very top end midfield. especially with Shai and co still going strong. Managing the transition from a Cotch led midfield to a the new guys won't be easy, but it looks good.
I reckon Ross could be better than very good. Potential to be an elite within 2 years.
 

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Jack has said numerous times Graham is the best weighted kick at the club .
Our eye might not see it but Jack is a real fan of Jack Graham that is .

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He might well be, but just saying if that's the case it'd be good to see him delivering more inside 50, its not a huge part of his game at AFL level.
 

Dr Tigris

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No doubt Graham in form makes our midfield better, just how much better compared to the young up and coming brigade is yet to be determined. All are young, so all should improve. If Graham stays in the midfield, which RCD, Ross and Bolton, then hats off to him.

I love some of the things he brings to our game, just reckon his defensive stuff is way over rated, because for a defensive mid he looks best to me when he is attacking. He kicks goals and other mids can't go with him all day. He is neat and doesn't fumble and is part of a lot of our offensive chains. See no reason why he can't play Lambert's role, who basically covers for Martin who basically never goes north of the circle. Lambert is 29 and will slow down, and cops a few injuries.
I see how we play the game a bit differently to you. in my mind jack Graham's work in making it hard for the oppo to get the ball out cleanly when he is outnumbered over and over again is vital to our ability to control the outside of the contest - and that is where we win games and so premierships.

Alone that makes him worth a spot, but just a limited role player. Add in his ability to use the ball and score and he might end up a genuine A grader in my mind.
 

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I see how we play the game a bit differently to you. in my mind jack Graham's work in making it hard for the oppo to get the ball out cleanly when he is outnumbered over and over again is vital to our ability to control the outside of the contest - and that is where we win games and so premierships.

Alone that makes him worth a spot, but just a limited role player. Add in his ability to use the ball and score and he might end up a genuine A grader in my mind.
I see Cotchin also as that sort. Hits as hard and makes it hard as anyone in the league, but get's the ball as well. Yes Graham does the hard stuff and makes it difficult by his closing down of space, but if a mid like Ross can do the same thing, but like Cotchin get the ball as well then that has to be more advantageous to the team. Prestia also does it, and he is an elite mid. 4.35 tackles per game to Grahams 6, not a lot in it. Great pressure player like Cotchin.

Graham is the weakest link in our midfield I don't think you could argue else wise. Martin, Prestia, Cotchin, Edwards, now Bolton. That is why they tried him on the wing, which he was not quick enough nor agile enough for. And that is why they dropped him. With newby's Ross and REC, and even Cumberland who looks a massive unit, all three being very tough and quick, the pressure game Graham applies will become even less significant, providing those boys come on.

It is far more than pressure that makes Richmond tick. We score from back 50 more than any side in the comp. We have two gun forwards. Our movement of the ball is elite. As I said previously, he had a good back end to the season, but I see Graham's ability to run and link all game as his no.1 trait, and he hits the scoreboard, I think he will do that more and more as he progresses. But it may not be as a midfielder.
 

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