5 year plan

[beaver fever]

just because you pick a kid doesnt mean they will be a gun

Certainly not, gun players are rare, but what you are looking for is well rounded footballers that can play a position to AFL standard. You only need a core of 5 or so guns and the rest of the group complement them.

 

[froars]

Hmm youth policy eh? So that's why we brought in recycled duds in M.Graham, Knobel, P.Bowden, Polak, McMahon, Kingsley and now Cousins. That's why we never traded for more picks in the national draft, and even used those picks on recycled players. That's why we took barely the average number of kids that other clubs took. Youth policy my ****ing arseh*le.

Well if Carlton can go for Judd, Saddington Longmuir et al and be considered to have adopted a youth policy as well, so can we.

McMahon and Polak and Bowden weren't exactly old men when we drafted them They were in the right age group if you ask me of the age group we needed.

 

[beaver fever]

M Graham was servicable for a season and we almost made the eight. Knobel was a bad choice but cost us nothing, P. Bowden finished in the top half dozen in the B&F, Polak?????Old? he cost us %$#k all???? Mcmahon not a good choice but hardly old either, Kingsley... well yes another one that didn't work, Cousins???? regardless of wether he plays another game he has paid for himself x 10.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OF VALUE TO TRADE FOR PICKS....

You share the same mentality of the list management sub committee. You don't take into consideration that PSD picks and rookie picks and late national draft picks are still a chance to find footballers. You call them nothing, I call them gold.

As for having nothing to trade, well that is very much debateable. Being offered pick 28 for Schulz is one example.

 

[nut]

Good contribution. Might add that we still lack character. Couple of mistakes and a couple of goals get kicked on us, and everything falls apart. Everyone drops their heads and panics.

Lacking character can be confused by lacking confidence in each other... and that is normally contributed by not being %100 sure on what we should be doing... and the reason for this is that we are not %100 drilled on our game plan....
The Danger for Wallace and any coach is the players stop believing in the fundamentals of the game plan... there are definate signs to be worry about our plan, tackling and pressuring the oppostions to name 2. If we want to play the zones then then thats fine, but if we drop out intensity and rely on the "game plan" to be our successful ingrediant then we will never be successful.

I think we need to simplify our game plan, start working harder for each other, tackle more, and play more attacking and direct football.

I watched geelong... they handball more than us but when they do they are still all running forwards in swarms, they create and offer more attacking options. We stand still hoping for someone to get clear.

 

[beaver fever]

Well if Carlton can go for Judd, Saddington Longmuir et al and be considered to have adopted a youth policy as well, so can we.

McMahon and Polak and Bowden weren't exactly old men when we drafted them They were in the right age group if you ask me of the age group we needed.

They weren't youth players, but I would consider what Carlton has done as similar to what we have done. A hybrid mixture of youth and experienced players. Not a bonofide youth policy.

 

[nut]

You share the same mentality of the list management sub committee. You don't take into consideration that PSD picks and rookie picks and late national draft picks are still a chance to find footballers. You call them nothing, I call them gold.

As for having nothing to trade, well that is very much debateable. Being offered pick 28 for Schulz is one example.

Your naming the mistakes and forgetting the success we have had in the PSD... very few clubs have done better than us in the PSD since Wallace turned up, not to mention the rookie draft.

Schulz for pick 28??? no thanks... he will be an important player for us in the next 4-5 years. Someone who can forward and back.

The only real mistakes the club has made is Mcmahon for pic 20 .. and Kingsley. The rest are justified.

 

[beaver fever]

Nut, what are you on about? I'm advocating the use of the PSD to find kids.

PSD

2004: Knobel - Squib
2005: White - A youth player
2006: Kingsley - Squib
2007: Gourdis - Rookie now and fills a list need
2008: Cousins - Injured

Wow our biggest success was Matthew White, guess what he isn't a washed up recycled dud. Fancy that.

Schulz is a half glass full player that is not the answer. We could have got Levi Greenwood for that pick, and helped to solve our small defender issues.

 

[froars]

WE HAVE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OF VALUE TO TRADE FOR PICKS....

That is the sad fact of life, that hardly any of the players that left the club went on to other clubs, except for that traitor Ottens and Roden who had plenty of chances
People underestimate the quality or lack of it Plough inherited.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Anyone believe that this is where we expected to be in R1 of the 5th year of the 5 year plan?

Trying hard not to overreact, but this game has totally done my head in. If we dont play out of our skins against the Cats and beat the dogs, the Carlton game was no aberration. The whole argument that we need 5 years of development has been a sham.

And lets never ever give another coach a 5 year get ouf jail free contract

When we signed Wallace and got rid of Frawley there is no way in hell I thought we would be in a similar position 5 years on 1980.

But do we sack Wallace? I know what will happen if we do, we will give the job to Wayne Campbell and that scares the shit out of me. Not only will we have players running around lost on the field but these same players will also be kicking the ball like that auskick commercial.

 

[froars]

But do we sack Wallace? I know what will happen if we do, we will give the job to Wayne Campbell and that scares the shit out of me. Not only will we have players running around lost on the field but these same players will also be kicking the ball like that auskick commercial.

We came 9th last year, better than most expected, ahead of Carlton who everyone is saying was better than us (please explain how) and we've lost one game for the season yet you are calling off this whole year based on one game. I don't understand the logic

 

[nut]

Nut, what are you on about? I'm advocating the use of the PSD to find kids.

PSD

2004: Knobel - Squib
2005: White - A youth player
2006: Kingsley - Squib
2007: Gourdis - Rookie now and fills a list need
2008: Cousins - Injured

Wow our biggest success was Matthew White, guess what he isn't a washed up recycled dud. Fancy that.

Schulz is a half glass full player that is not the answer. We could have got Levi Greenwood for that pick, and helped to solve our small defender issues.

Hindsight is wonderful....

Knoble was drafted to allow Pattison to develop. Kingsley was drafted allow our younger KP develop... yes they failed but....

you have named 1 player that you would have drafted for pick 28 last year... this is hardly a huge trade for picks policy. We lose Shulz to a trade.. cop an injury to Moore or Mcgaune or Thursfield and suddenly our depth is shot down back and our defence which is now a strength becomes an unworkable weakness, putting a player like Rance into the deep end and we go backwards.






Our list is fairly balance in my view... sure certain players need to lift, but it's rnd 1.

It's not a sprint it's a marathon

again plaese comment on this game... http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2004/121320040516.html

 

[IDGAF]

Good contribution. Might add that we still lack character. Couple of mistakes and a couple of goals get kicked on us, and everything falls apart. Everyone drops their heads and panics.

Thats leadership ...

pure and simple

 

[deliberate!!]

You can walk down to any local club and watch them for years.

A coach will come along and the team will bomb.
After 2 years they might replace the coach, and bang, the team fires all year and challenges for a flag.

Basically the same group has performed under both coaches.
Then why, in AFL Football , do we allow for this 5 year scam?
This happens in no other Asssociation playing Football.
Is the AFL that elite, that they endorse this 5 year 'coaches superannuation' trick?
And is Richmond the biggest dummies in the league to constantly fall for it?

Some coaches in the AFL are too scared to back their ability to turn around clubs quicker.
And Richmond has fallen for this long-term coaches gamble for too long.

Lists don't always need to be rebuilt.
Just get the right coach for the right group. Or move them on quickly. How quickly did the loss of Northey hurt us?

If we can't get a presumably decent coach who wants to do it short term, then give it to a Hardwick or Longmire.
If they don't want it....give it to ANYONE, and I mean anyone, and turn them over quickly till someone takes with the group.

I've screamed this from the time Spud & Wallace scored their deals.
If we fall for another 5 year deal scam, we may as well close down the club forever.

It's as serious as that.

Under Wallace, Richmond has gone from Yellow & Black, to Beige.
Wallace has sucked the life out of our club.

But I refuse to let him suck the life out of me.
I'll go down fighting.

 

[beaver fever]

Hindsight is wonderful....

Knoble was drafted to allow Pattison to develop. Kingsley was drafted allow our younger KP develop... yes they failed but....

you have named 1 player that you would have drafted for pick 28 last year... this is hardly a huge trade for picks policy. We lose Shulz to a trade.. cop an injury to Moore or Mcgaune or Thursfield and suddenly our depth is shot down back and our defence which is now a strength becomes an unworkable weakness, putting a player like Rance into the deep end and we go backwards.

Ah the old hindsight arguement. I guess its just lucky that it backs my contention.

Pattison was recruited as a CHF, not ruckman so try again. We had already had 2 experienced ruckman on the list in Simmonds and Stafford.

Kingsley yup epic fail.

I can understand bringing in a stopgap ruckman if the situation is that bad, but it wasn't, and at the time we had no young ruckman developing anyway. The kingsley decision was just an epic fail on all grounds. The development arguement is a poor one.

Pick 28 could have got us:
Marlon Motlop - help to solve small forward issues
Dawson Simpson - help to solve ruckman issues
Bradd Dalziell - up coming prolific ball winning midfielder
Chris Mayne - good leading forward
Scott Simpsons and Dan McKenna - help to solve key forward issues

Yes these players may not make the grade, but they have more chance than "I know nothing".

 

[nut]

Ah the old hindsight arguement. I guess its just lucky that it backs my contention.

Pattison was recruited as a CHF, not ruckman so try again. We had already had 2 experienced ruckman on the list in Simmonds and Stafford.

Kingsley yup epic fail.

I can understand bringing in a stopgap ruckman if the situation is that bad, but it wasn't, and at the time we had no young ruckman developing anyway. The kingsley decision was just an epic fail on all grounds. The development arguement is a poor one.

Pick 28 could have got us:
Marlon Motlop - help to solve small forward issues
Dawson Simpson - help to solve ruckman issues
Bradd Dalziell - up coming prolific ball winning midfielder
Chris Mayne - good leading forward
Scott Simpsons and Dan McKenna - help to solve key forward issues

Yes these players may not make the grade, but they have more chance than "I know nothing".

Pick 28.... = untried talent .... another Cleve Huges maybe..
Shulz = Versitle Utility that can play forward and back.. a player that doesn't mind the hard stuff. A player that is 5 years in th system and is ready to go.

 

[deliberate!!]

Pick 28.... = untried talent .... another Cleve Huges maybe..
Shulz = Versitle Utility that can play forward and back.. a player that doesn't mind the hard stuff. A player that is 5 years in the system and is ready to go.

Is he ready...did he tell you?
Good, cause I've been waiting. You wouldn't believe how long I've been waiting.
I thought the 14+ he's been dropped was because he wasn't ready.
Now I know.

Thanks Nut.

 

[beaver fever]

Pick 28.... = untried talent .... another Cleve Huges maybe..
Shulz = Versitle Utility that can play forward and back.. a player that doesn't mind the hard stuff. A player that is 5 years in th system and is ready to go.

Untried talent, I thought you didn't like the hindsight arguements? Another Cleve Hughes or another Tippet, Patful, Garland, Hill, Rosa, McGuane, Prismall, LeCras, Maric, Warnock, Knights, Egan. FFS just because it is untried talent does not mean it can not become AFL talent. Schulz has certainly proven he is not AFL talent.

Schulz can play forward and back and do what exactly? Play on a key forward...nope. Play as a tall forward.....has not shown he can provide consistent a scoring option.

So he is versatile in the sense that you can play him in those positions, but he won't actually be any good in them. Last year he played as a loose man in defense and was average at best. Sheesh even Polak and P.Bowden did better than him in that position.

 

[Murphinator]

I laughed for days when i first heard the '5 year plan' line.
I thought you guys may sneak into the finals this year.
Wallace is a crap coach. never liked him, never been impressed by him.
he's obviously gone if you miss finals...two more big losses in the first half of the season i think he is a gonner

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

We came 9th last year, better than most expected, ahead of Carlton who everyone is saying was better than us (please explain how) and we've lost one game for the season yet you are calling off this whole year based on one game. I don't understand the logic

Since when has Richmond ever turned their season around after such a pathetic performance froars ? The Richmond you remember is long dead.

What makes me sick is the fact that this club needs to be flogged to get the fire in the belly, sure we will come back this week take it up to the cats and most probably just lose, everyone will be glad we showed character...character my arse, character would have been the club knowing at Qtr time on thursday night we needed to lift and we were in serious trouble, then work their arses off to get back in the match.

Its the same every god damn year and its a joke, we eat coaches up at Punt Road and spit them out, we cleaned out the list (this is what Terry has done and is why I thought things may change) except its done sweet FA and the same problems exist. Is that because Terry is good a clearing out a list but no good at actually developing it?

I dont understand how Carlton were rated more than us going by last years results but they are and they were right, is there something others see that we are clearly missing? I was so excited to get stuck into 2009 and that performance has now sat me back on my arse, I feel stupid that good ol Richmond sucker punch has me on the canvas one more time.

Sometimes I just hate football

 

[mitch richmond]

After 4 years, Wallace has won about 3 less games than Bomber Thompson had after 4 years at Geelong.
On this basis, if we've drafted so bad and recycled hacks, Wallace must be a pretty good coach to have had three 10+ win seasons in his four years.
Everyone here was optimistic about our year this time last week. Some sides who suffer a 15 goal loss during a season still make finals believe it or not.

 

[1980]

When we signed Wallace and got rid of Frawley there is no way in hell I thought we would be in a similar position 5 years on 1980.

But do we sack Wallace? I know what will happen if we do, we will give the job to Wayne Campbell and that scares the shit out of me. Not only will we have players running around lost on the field but these same players will also be kicking the ball like that auskick commercial.

Wallace is a goner mate. We needed to have an exceptional first half of the season for him to be resigned.

At least we'll have JohnF back on this board defending Campbell to death

 

[1980]

Since when has Richmond ever turned their season around after such a pathetic performance froars ? The Richmond you remember is long dead.

What makes me sick is the fact that this club needs to be flogged to get the fire in the belly, sure we will come back this week take it up to the cats and most probably just lose, everyone will be glad we showed character...character my arse, character would have been the club knowing at Qtr time on thursday night we needed to lift and we were in serious trouble, then work their arses off to get back in the match.

Its the same every god damn year and its a joke, we eat coaches up at Punt Road and spit them out, we cleaned out the list (this is what Terry has done and is why I thought things may change) except its done sweet FA and the same problems exist. Is that because Terry is good a clearing out a list but no good at actually developing it?

I dont understand how Carlton were rated more than us going by last years results but they are and they were right, is there something others see that we are clearly missing? I was so excited to get stuck into 2009 and that performance has now sat me back on my arse, I feel stupid that good ol Richmond sucker punch has me on the canvas one more time.

Sometimes I just hate football

Thats an excellent post mate. Agree 100%. Especially about the part of getting knocked down on your ars!

 

[froars]

Since when has Richmond ever turned their season around after such a pathetic performance froars ? The Richmond you remember is long dead.

What makes me sick is the fact that this club needs to be flogged to get the fire in the belly, sure we will come back this week take it up to the cats and most probably just lose, everyone will be glad we showed character...character my arse, character would have been the club knowing at Qtr time on thursday night we needed to lift and we were in serious trouble, then work their arses off to get back in the match.

Its the same every god damn year and its a joke, we eat coaches up at Punt Road and spit them out, we cleaned out the list (this is what Terry has done and is why I thought things may change) except its done sweet FA and the same problems exist. Is that because Terry is good a clearing out a list but no good at actually developing it?

I dont understand how Carlton were rated more than us going by last years results but they are and they were right, is there something others see that we are clearly missing? I was so excited to get stuck into 2009 and that performance has now sat me back on my arse, I feel stupid that good ol Richmond sucker punch has me on the canvas one more time.

Sometimes I just hate football

Jeez, I didn't mean to make you cry lol
Well, I hate footy too at the moment if it makes you feel like you're not alone
But I doubt for the same reasons you hate it.

 

[nut]

Some sides who suffer a 15 goal loss during a season still make finals believe it or not.

...and some win the flag...... http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2004/121320040516.html

 

[beaver fever]

And the majority go bottom 4.